Just For Fun
Elitists Are Killing The Heavy Metal Genre?
A YouTube user named "iAMVyt" has posted a video clip online discussing the idea that metal elitism is causing the downfall of the entire genre, and that there cannot truly be an "underground" scene in the age of Facebook. Take a gander at the video clip, and feel free to share your thoughts on metal elitism and what it means to be "underground" in the comments section below. "iAMVyt" also commented on the clip:
"This is just a short video covering a couple of my beliefs about metal elitists. No, this is not criticizing everyone who enjoys metal. It is not criticizing everyone who identifies themselves as a 'metalhead.' It is not criticizing everyone who has a strong belief in anything involving music or metal.
"It is criticizing what I believe to be foolish views and opinions. If you do not agree with my opinions, that is FINE. If you are a metalhead and find that this video does not describe you... You are not a metal elitist."
What's Next?
- Previous Article:
Acherontas Announces New Album Release - Next Article:
Haken Reveals "Visions" Track Listing
420 Comments on "Elitists Are Killing Heavy Metal?"
Post your comments and discuss the article below! (no login required)
They're absolutely right. I see examples of it all the time. "Metallica sold out", "Nu-metal/deathcore/metalcore aren't real metal", "Metal is superior to every other genre", "Christian bands can't be in black metal", "Mainstream bands suck because they're mainstream" etc. If you don't like a certain band or genre, that's fine. Just don't try to parade your taste around like it's at the top of some pyramid and everyone's below you. And to #1: That is exactly what you're doing.
I had to stop this idiot's video after two minutes.
And my only guess is that he got kicked out of the band,cause he can't play fast, or can't play at all.
And all this stuff about classical music, and that people who like metal say it's "gay"?
Where did he come up with that kind of sh**???
IMO this article should be removed from MU, since this dumbass is trying to get attention any way he can.
Retarded piece of sh**
Member
So the video states criticism of any style of metal hurts the genre, yet follows it up by saying NWA has more meaning than Cannibal Corpse. So are we to assume that personal interpretation and meaning holds no place in "true" metal appreciation, or only the opinion of iAMVyt?
What does the length of Beethoven's composition have to do with my taste in metal? I have never based my love for music on how long it took to make. Not sure where that arguement comes from.
So speed kills, what about those of us who enjoy Sludge or Doom metal? Are we still using speed as a measuring stick for what is good or isn't? I listen to Neurosis and The Gates of Slumber. Hell, I like Sleep. I also listen to Obscura and Nile. Sorry, no water held there.
I enjoy Sabbath and Zep, I even like a few songs from Trivium and Avenged Sevenfold. ( My neice forces them on me in the car) So I'd like to think I have no prejudice as to the age or "newness" of metal. What I do have however is my own taste in music and a means to communicate. If I don't like a band, I'm not going to hold my tongue for love of the genre. It is what it is.
We are talking about opinion here. There is no measuring tool, and there is honestly no right or wrong in personal taste. people like what they like despite these arguements toward elitism, underground, mainstream, or what have you. Disliking a band does not make one a "hater" no more than liking a band makes one a "fanboy".
As a final note, I love classical. My wife is a violinist, and turned me onto it a long time ago. When done correctly it's just as powerful an expression as metal, moreso in many cases. She's also a metal fan.
Sorry, but I'm calling b*llsh*t on this one.
Member
Ive been listening to our beloved genre of metal for nearly 30 years! What i find amazing is most of the "elitists" have been into and involved in the genre for a short period of time,5 years or less or so. Tired of every self proclaimed expert,who wasnt there,making claims he knows nothing about. With the internet,its too easy to gain insight into a scene you wernt apart of 25 years ago or so. Not being bitter,but newbie metal fans for the most part make me sick.
Member
I have to admit, I didn't get far with the video. How the amount of time it takes to write a song or an album has any relevance on anything other than an individual or band's work ethic/level of perfectionism is beyond me.
As far as my take on the whole subject of elitism goes, I can sum it up pretty quick (I know, right? ;)
Like what you like, shut up about what you don't.
It's just that simple, people. :P I'd also love to step forward and promote constructive discussion/criticism but, sadly, I think that is now an art long lost.
this elitism as u call it is bs. and people may not like one type of metal. thats between them and their love of music. its their own opinion. just because u dont agree with it doesnt mean u can single them out. i like guitar riffs and solos. speed doesnt kill either dude. depends on how u do it. have good rythem and sounds and it sounds good to me. but im a believer that most new up an coming metal artist is kinna killing metal with all the believe that speed makes it better. sound is what makes music and metal good. if u like the music, good for you. dont hate on others for their believes.
Heavy metal's defining characteristics of power, aggression, anger, and escapism makes it a genre that appeals to a large number of people who feel disenfranchised from the mainstream for whatever reason. The music provides them some solace. It fills them with a sense that they are the ones who are right and the rest of the world that appears to be so different is wrong.
It is a natural reaction for those people to reject anything mainstream because they don't want to be a part of it like everyone else. They want to stand out. They don't want to conform. I can understand them lashing out in an emotional reaction when something they love seems to be getting tied to something they loathe.
The poster does make some valid points. One should be open to new forms of inspiration. You never know when something you never imagined will speak to you in a way that your favorite band does. But, being open to it does not mean having to like it. I don't like rap. Rap does not speak to me. It's no less valid an art form, but it's for someone else. I do, however, like classical and jazz a great deal because of the musical complexity and sense of escapism and release, getting "lost in the music", that those genres offer to me. Music always has been and always will be a personal art form.
End of the day, nothing is "killing heavy metal". The video is an overreaction with some valid points, but metal is here to stay and inspire, empower, and console fans for generations to come. Long live heavy metal.
Member
If Beethoven was alive today I guarantee he would look at the sheet music (before some retard comments he was deaf in later life so he wouldn't be listening to yo' fat beats) he would laugh at the musical integrity of most genre's and would probably be a metalhead himself. The musical composition of the guitars are actually very close to classical music. Most metalheads know this fact and I've never heard them call classical gay. And they can say that about other genres because most metalheads are musicians themselves. I do agree that it is dumb if a metal band gains any popularity they are deemed as "sold out". As for everything else said though I highly disagree. Does that make me an elitist, by his definition yes, but who the f*** is he to label me? I don't believe I am, and his rant is a gross over simplification of most metalheads so its hard to not fit the mold. Who thinks they can define an elitist in more accurate detail?
Supporter
Since when is it required to spend 4 years to compose a musical piece for it to be considered good? Guns n Roses' "Chinese Democracy" took, what, 15 or so years to be completed and released. Guess what? Dog sh*t, that album.
"While a player can play fast, complicated compositions more skillfully than a player who can't, that doesn't necessarily mean he's more talented"
Um, does that even make sense? Do you hear yourself?
By the way, it's not the "mainstream" itself that f*cking sucks, it's what happens to a lot of bands when they get there. It's been said a million times I know, but look at Metallica. That's all that need be said. There's a lot of bands overseas that have never gotten mainstream attention in the states that do just fine over there- both financially and musically. So no, you don't have to turn your band into a c***sucking boy band to make it on MTV to be successful.
To the maker of this video-GO FORTH AND DIE
{sorry to rant, I just have a low tolerance for stupid children's stupid sh*t}
Member
in a way i think elitism can be good for a genre other wise you'll have genres where they all kinda bleed together and make one big ugly genre. if there wasnt black metal guys that hated death metal. we wouldnt have black metal, it'd be some hybrid of the two instead of two different entities. if you catch what im trying to say. or we'd have death hip hop. you wanna live in a world with sh**ty beats and electronica mixed with death metal? if it wasnt elitism it wouldnt be the genre it is today. imo. everything is seperate for a reason. if we didnt have ppl go "thats sh**, we can make something better" we'd have less creativity.
Member
What a douche. His video is chock full of contradictions and the most important thing I took from it was the almost certainty that he was butthurt on a Metal forum/website by a few trolls. And I can sort of understand the hatred for the mainstream considering there are bands like 5FDP moronically farting all over it and generally giving people a wrong impression of what heavy music is all about. BUT, having said that, what the Metal-Archives preaches is completely twisted and allows for no growth whatsoever. If you base your taste on traditions and rules, then you suck and I might call you an elitist. Metal was all about breaking rules and trying unorthodox things and it shames me to see that website encourage people to regress to the concept of a "closed environment" within a single genre. But then again, I'm not gonna go on a nerd-rage on youtube spouting incessant sh**. With the advent of Metalsucks and the forums of this very website, I think people have become a little more accepting of some left-of-center concepts in Metal and even recognize the talent in bands that don't appeal to them. So in conclusion, we have nothing to worry about.
Member
I have to agree with Netromancer & Necrovomit. I'm an "elitist" since most of what I listen to is metal. Right? There is a TON of variety within the heavy metal umbrella that ignorant clodhoppers like our friend here can't hear. "Open your mind!" Part of the reason I don't like a lot of non-metal music is because I've spent YEARS sampling different genres of music, & whatever I didn't like would fall by the wayside, never to be picked up again. Good riddance! You know WHY I can tell when a genre isn't for me? The music doesn't make me feel ALIVE! So I see no point in wasting more time on said genre. Heavy metal does that for me, more than any other music. Now, here are some non-metal genres I like: Rock and roll (Elvis, Chuck Berry, Dion, etc.) CLASSICAL! Yep. Jazz. Soul. Funk. Folk. Blues. This video displays more of the same "I hate metal but I'm a metal fan, now let me waste 6 minutes of your time crying at you for not liking my favorite indie rock band" horse crap that ignorant kids love to spread. If this self-aggrandizing ("I'm NOT an elitist, so I'm better than you") punk wants to disregard the underground by basically saying it doesn't/can't "thrive", while throwing metal under the bus n favor of... (c)rap, that's his/her/both? problem.
This was awful. I haven’t had to hear such a stupid opinion in a long time. I can’t believe I sat through the whole thing. Why falling back on classical to invalidate metal? Opinions like this are sh**. Ignorant to the core. I’ll take the classical slant since this guy did. A lot of the metal I listen to has classical elements, and is well composed. Organ, piano, brass, strings, operatic vocals, and sometimes arrangement. They are very compatible genres, and training in one it’s easy to plug it into the other. Musical analysis would not support what this guy says. What’s with the people who play fast are not skilled or talented? Has anyone here gone through the classical hurdles? What do you play when you are not skilled? Slow, simple songs. What do you play in 10 years when you are skilled? Fast, complex pieces. Sure, a skilled player can pay a 4th grade piece to make the audience weep, but they couldn’t play it that way when they were not skilled. Skilled player takes the cake. Beethoven’s 5th took a long time because he was writing other things. He didn’t work on it exclusively for all those years. He finished a number of other works and premiered the 5th and 6th at the same time. He was a busy guy living in a difficult time. I’ll never get why pieces of crap like this try to raise the stakes by saying that if it ain’t classical it’s beat. None of the other genres are classical, either, and f***, if you’re sitting around listening to all that high titted baroque sh** (f***, I’m choking on my tits) that they blast out on classical radio during office hours between commercials for help getting over prescription drug addiction, your head is up your ass. That’s why I’ve never gotten the argument. There is plenty of awesome classical music, from all periods, Bach, Beethoven, whatever, but I’ve noticed the more stupid they come the more indiscriminate the classical becomes. The most raucous, lame, over the top f***ing stuffed tit bullsh** isn’t even filtered from the great stuff. Pleading Beethoven’s 5th is like pleading the national anthem. It’s ridiculous. The most “pop” classical in existence, and unlike other pop classical, people actually know who wrote that one. Stupid sh**. a$$hole probably saw an episode of “Little Einsteins” and he so smart now. Idiot sounds burned and unsuccessful, with the crack about needing more to live on than rebelliousness and angst. That’s the kind of conformity that leaves folks like me broke, and trying to sell other people to that kind of conformity is bullsh**. Like the right hand path of music just came knocking on the door asking for money. People can do what they f***ing want, and guess what a$$hole, some people DO make it. f*** you.
It’s the UNDERGROUND that’s f***ing alive. All the a$$holes I’ve met that sit around mulling about wanting to get that one great radio song never do ANYTHING. It’s the UNDERGROUND that stays alive. This guy is an idiot. Maybe he got confused, and thought that when he got kicked out of his mom’s basement there was no more metal underground.
Member
Lack of elitism is killing metal.
Elitism means tolerating only quality music. It's like natural selection for heavy metal: keep the good, throw out the sh**.
Metal is dying because it is flooded with insincere hipster bands, commercial trash and pointless rehashing of underground styles.
The only force that opposes that are the people who insist on quality control, a/k/a the elitists.
The opposite of an elitist is a poseur. Poseurs want to use the music to make themselves look smart, unique, interesting, different, etc.
When those people started infesting metal in 1994 or so, the downward spiral began. Now there's only a few acts that aren't as abysmally bad as the stuff on mainstream radio.
Founder, owner & programmer
I have to disagree with a lot of what prozac said. Elitism and quality is where the problem often lies, as the elitist will trash anything they don't like, whether it's for valid reason or just their opinion. A lot of elitists are closed-minded, which is where they show the limitations of the value of their opinions. And those two are wherein the problem lies: elitists who think their opinions are akin to the word of the metal gods, when, in fact, they are often based on hatred of something new or different than something more articulate about the music. I know quite a few metalheads who have had run-ins with such "a$$holes" and have come out thinking less of metalheads and metal as a whole because of it.
I also don't see elitists and poseurs as opposites really. Either can be just as uninformed and judgemental as the other and they can even like the same music, just for different reasons likely.
What Coldiem said "Like what you like, shut up about what you don't" works for both sides, but we know this will never happen. I, for one, enjoy a good discussion with open minded and articulate people.
And by the way...making our music we spend more than a month only on vocals alone, so it goes without saying we spend more than a two years on an album. There are minimum 2000 working hours on our album. Even though nobody counts and you cannot be sure this is a bare minimum, but it could easily be 3000 hours as well.
Member
@ bill: Ive tried telling people that, but they just react like I am trying to be a spelling nazi. They think that people will still take their posts as relevant, even though every other word is spelled incorrectly and the post shows complete lack of ability to form proper sentences. I have stopped from telling people from other countries this due to English not being their main language, so they get a free pass, but as for Americans, it shows how stupid the school systems have made them. It is quite funny to see them try to sound so serious when showing complete idiocy and illiterate mentality!!
The one thing that gets me about the "elitists" I've come into contact with is their refusal to give things a chance. Like with Bring Me The Horizon (coincidentally, they're a great metalcore band) getting completely shunned by the entire metal community and having "that's not metal" thrown at them constantly, just because Oli Sykes straightens his hair and wears tight jeans. It's people listening with their eyes, judging bands on their appearance rather than their musical integrity. Now I'm not saying all these "scene" bands are good (BVB suck ass), but at least listen to the band and form a valid opinion before running your mouth. Most of the guys I know who slagged off BMTH enjoyed them when I played a few songs to them, only to completely change their mind when told it was BMTH who played them. That's just irrational.
Yeah, the person who made the video has some obvious errors and contradictions in there, but the point remains valid; elitism sucks.
Member
I don't consider myself an elitist and will not defend true elitists, but the person who made this video is simply uninformed about what an elitist actually is. He clearly spends a lot of time on youtube, because the type of person he is describing is one of the millions of trolls that comment on that site, not actual metal elitists. I can guarantee most metal elitists at the very least appreciate, if not enjoy classical music. They like pure forms of music. They also don't judge everything based on how fast and technical they are. In fact, most metal elitists hate these super fast technical bands (like Necrophagist, BTBAM, etc) for the exact same points that were made in this video.
I like the idea behind this video, but I would like to see an intelligent video made instead of this trash.
Member
This guy was about 50% correct. But he was definetly wrong on the how long it takes to create a song, and on people who can play faster or better are not more talented. Clearly there are more talented guitarists, drummers, ect. But, just because someone doesnt play fast, doesnt mean they are not capable of playing fast. They choose not too, because its not their style or genre they play. But despite that, there are far more talented musicians than others.
He was correct on the fact that most "metalheads" are close minded d-bags who believe everything but their own opinion is garbage. People should enjoy all kinds of music, and just because they dont like or understand others taste in music, they shouldnt judge. But then again most elitists are not very bright.
Now, to the NWA/cannibal corpse argument. He was wrong. There isnt an ounce of meaning in either one. They are both trash, one is about satan, the other about murder and crime.
Member
y'all want 'heavy metal elitism'?
You got it...right here, right now
I AM THE METAL ELITE...take it or leave it, I certainly don't give a fvck
I know what's good, honest metal, and what ain't...you feelin insecure about yer favorite sh!t band's metal cred? call me up and I'll set yer azz straight
Senior Reviewer
KORNDOGG - I think you've invalidated your opinion by not actually knowing what Cannibal Corpse sing about.
Heh - a guest appearance by 'the' prozak? This post is a decent discussion piece, and I'm glad to see most have seen through the pathetic strawman arguments in the video.
Member
Actually cynic, my opinion is most certainly valid. I summed it up with satanic, but I couldve went on to say sodomy, murder, mutilation, dismemberment, death, ect. All which is somewhat satanic. Which in turn has no meaning or positive message what so ever. Garbage is what it is, garbage for simple minded idiots such as yourself to listen too.
If you are a fan of ANY genre you will find an elitist amongst their midst. Classical music lovers can only listen to the "greats". Country enthusiasts should love the "classics". It's always been this way and there is no changing it. I get perturbed when someone calls a Rock band or a Hard Rock band Metal when they clearly are not but I would never go out of my way to throw that in their faces. I would quietly grumble under my breath and move on. Not everyone is going to like my style of music as I am not going to like theirs. (No one here at work likes Metal. I guess people in health insurance just don't have any taste... kidding).
It doesn't have to be underground to be "good" .
It doesn't have to poorly produced to be "real".
And you don't have to like it for it to have merit in the music industry.
Member
First of all the video is rubbish and a complete waste of time. These debates in the metal scene have been going on since i can remember. The same old vs. new debates can probably be had in all genres,rap,country,etc. Metals always been the looked down on,scoffed at music. Thats just the way i like it. Undergrounds the best imo,bands are young and hungry. Hey HR,got around to checking out the Crown.Good stuff! Amazed i missed out on em. NP: Dismember/Where Iron Crosses Grow
Member
I won't even bother commenting on the content of this ill conceived video, but instead will offer my own analogy.
The way I see it, tastes in music are similar to tastes in food.
When you're young and and trying new foods, most kids gravitate toward the sweets. Sure they taste good and are easily digestable, but there isn't a lot of substance to them. Also, you can't eat too much before getting sick of it. More sophisticated food and beverages are often found as you get older - and some require a few tries before the flavor is truly appreciated. Kids don't really appreciate a good steak, a fine wine, or even a good salad with a zesty viniagrette dressing.
I belive the same can be said for music. When you're young, the radio is often your first exposure to music. The majority of music getting radio play is like PEZ. It's sugary pop that is easily digestable. That is why it's so popular. But, there is little substance to the simple lyrics and standard verse chorus song structure found with so many of the tripe that is pushed on the American public.
Disney = McDonalds
As you grow and refine your tastes, you try new things, some things you come back to later and realize the awesomeness that you miss (or even dissed) earlier.
Metal is like fine food, and there is a smorgasbord of offerings. To say one style of metal is better than the other is like saying Steak is better than Swordfish. It's not better, it's just different. Some like that flavor, others do not.
However, just like food, we should look at the ingredients. If the metal is created expressly for mass consumption and NOT because of the love of the art, then it should be treated like the common commodity that it is and tossed in the trash after a brief sample. But if someone cooks a Meaty metal rib-eye because they love the heat from the grill (the sweat and skill that challenges them to create the music) and the smoky aroma that makes their mouth and eyes water (the sound of a fullfilling creative process), than that should be respected even if it is not our flavor.
I'm not saying that we should accept all metal, but should judge it based on what went into creating it and who it is marketed to. If that is elitist, then I am elitist.
Member
Not very religous actually. I just believe in music having a personal attachment to it, changing lives, opening up minds, really feeling it instrumentely and lryically, ect. Not about rape, murder, satan, mutilation, and all the sick f***ing sh** that most death and black metal groups are about. They are the arm pit of not only metal, but music as a whole.
Member
I think many of you have made great points here. Intelligence is always appreciated on this website. I think a major underlying theme here is maturity and music. Bare with me.
I think it's natural for individuals who get into a new genre to go wild and try to develop these grand opinions about certain sub-genres and/or band(s).
Truth is, although there are many amazing metal bands, most metal bands are not that good (lets be honest -- this applies to all genres).
I think as individuals mature their taste in music becomes more refined and specific (nothing wrong with that) and many of their opinions ultimately change. However, one can still be and should be open-minded about all kinds of music. I think being open-minded leads to a more satisfying experience with music in general.
In addition, all should be wary of having an objectivity bias. Objectively there is no type of music or band that is better than another. It's a matter of subjective opinion. Even though we all know this (or should know it), we generally hold this bias. The best thing to do, as someone has already said, is talk about what you like and be critical of what you like and don't waste time trashing things you don't like....what's to gain?
I hope that all made sense..I'm very tired.
NP: "April Ethereal" by Opeth
Senior Reviewer
Hey KORNDOGG, I'm gonna quote you:
"People should enjoy all kinds of music, and just because they dont like or understand others taste in music, they shouldnt judge."
Hey your former self is pretty smart! What happened, did you get hit in the head between post 41 and 57?
Member
KORNDOGG, with all due respect, what you said about death & black metal has invalidated what you said on your earlier post:
"He was correct on the fact that most "metalheads" are close minded d-bags who believe everything but their own opinion is garbage. People should enjoy all kinds of music, and just because they dont like or understand others taste in music, they shouldnt judge. But then again most elitists are not very bright."
Which you followed in a subsequent post with this:
"Not about rape, murder, satan, mutilation, and all the sick f***ing sh** that most death and black metal groups are about. They are the arm pit of not only metal, but music as a whole."
May I remind you that Korn toured with Ice Cube, a former member of NWA, in 1998. I don't like Korn to tell you the truth, & that's how I feel about nu-metal, grunge, modern rock, & alternative music in general. I used to listen to some of that stuff, but lost interest because to my ears it became bland. Does this mean I think nobody should ever listen to that kind of music? Of course not. If they like it, I don't care.
So, I think you should reconsider your judgement, as both black & death metal are perfectly acceptable, and frankly respectable, forms of music that have been beneficial to many of their fans in the same ways that you claim korn's music is to you. Why did you think it was necessary to say something so negative about two legitimate musical genres after what you said about people enjoying all kinds of music? There is negativity in the lyrics of bands like korn, from what I remember. And the extreme subject matter presented in lyrics, genre notwithstanding, is only going to be harmful if the listener is a big enough dumba-- to take it the wrong way; most death and black metal fans are not. 20 years ago there were some, but they were acting out because they were nuts to begin with. It is my belief that the two underground genres you judged deserve more respect than korn and bands of their ilk. But that's my opinion, and I know you don't share it. Hopefully, this will give you some perspective, and you think twice next time before acting so hostile.
Member
PPTfan: For once we disagree. I enjoy hearing what people dislike just as much if not more than what they do like. Often when people post only what they like about a band or a certain genere it becomes somewhat of a pep-rally atmosphere and more often than not makes my stomache turn. I prefer to hear what "could have been better" (especially when it comes to my own creations). As an artist I prefer to be challenged rather than cheered on. A pat on the back is great for the ego, but tends to stiffle creativity. Just one man's opinion.
Member
Blindgreed1: I should clarify. What I meant at the end was that it is a waste of time for people to attack a band or genre they don't like for the hell of it. For example, going on a Korn article and writing "Korn is the worst band of all time." What does that do for anyone? Nothing. You can be critical and attack bands you don't like, but be smart and mature about it.
I agree with what you said 100%. Another point that I tried to make but failed was that people should be more critical of what they like than what they dislike. Like you said, if someone is critical of your projects then you accept it and learn. That's healthy for everyone and any band.
People should challenge bands, but bands should also challenge themselves. IMO, the best bands are the ones that push themselves to the limits.
@R10:
I totally understand how a lot of newbie metal livers can make you sick, they make me sick too. I'm 19 and have been listening to metal for 3 years now, just because I haven't had 20 years to listen to it. I live metal new and old, with some exceptions which are purely my opinion. Do all of us young metal heads get the same treatment? And the old dudes who've been rocking the f*** out since I was in diapers? They can tend to be a bit judgementsl too. Not saying you are, but just from my own interactions. I played with a band who thought we had left the venue, [dudes in their mid to late 30's] thy opened their set with "let's show these kids what real metal is" as if we're stupid and ignorant because we're young? It goes both ways. I just wish that we could all just be a bit more open minded about others.
In no way a call out to you, mr. R10. I hope this doesn't offend you. I truly mean no offense.
Its true we need to sop fighting about what type of Metal is real metal or not. It's all real Metal. Slip Knot real metal. Slayer real metal. Korn real metal. Exodus real metal. A7X real metal. Whiplash real metal. All of it is. Every kind of music has helped each other type of music grow. Elvis likes Blues and Country he was the so called king of rock and roll. Dimebag loved Country as well. I my self like hip hop, jazz, classical, funk, blues, and any type of Rock. Be it Rock and Roll, Hard Rock, Rockabilly. So the next time some elitist a$$hole says the band you are listening to sucks just tell him that his opinion dose not matter to you, and your going to keep listening to any type of metal band you f***ing want. THATS TRUE METAL. Metal is a f***ing family who the f*** cares if its Deathl, Grind Core, Hardcore, Nu, Thrash, Speed, Classic, Black, Crossover, Avant Grade, Prog.
Member
Yea Korndogg there's something you need to keep in mind and make sure you remember this to it's full extent. Your view about death/black metal is exactly that. It's just what YOU! *points* O_O think about it.
You say armpit of music. But I say it's a respected genre with respected people. This music is meant to be angry and brutal.
In fact the way I look at metal as a whole, metal to me is angry and brutal. And that's why it's I believe it's one of the best genres in music today. I'm not saying that as an elitist either. I love all music and I'll never just lump myself into listening to only one type of music. Because if you're open minded with music it can open up your world to all these awesome things.
And you can look at it like this: There is literally a song out there for every single possible mood you could ever think of being in. If you're sad, mad, happy, depressed, etc, there is a song out there for you no matter what genre it is. And that's why music is great.
Metal for me is one of my favorite genres because like I said it's dark and angry and brutal and I've made it through a lot of hard times because of that.
Example: You get in a fight with your girlfriend/boyfriend whoever. Are you gonna go home and sit in your own depression or are you gonna pop in that Cannibal Corpse cd on the way home and rip that depression out of your head?
What I'm trying to say is don't bash it just because you have an emotional connection to something else. I have a deep emotional connection to death/black metal and metal in general. (I think I cried the first time I heard Painkiller......yea lol.)
And it doesn't fvckin' matter what the content of the song is, weather it's about murder and gore or "focus on pain and personal alienation." <;direct from Korns wiki lol.
Also keep in mind that this is coming from someone who HATED!! death metal and most metal in general like.........I don't know 7 or 8 years ago. I thought Cannibal Corpse was retarded, and bands like Korn were useless and destroying music for everyone. And their lyrics didn't help.
Korn - Right Now : You open your mouth again
I swear I'm gonna break it
You open your mouth again
My God I cannot take it
Shut up, shut up, shut up, I'll f*** you up.
^ Yea KD real positive lyrics. Really savin' lives with that one XD.
Cannibal Corpse - Cauldron Of Hate: Rage
This notion of murder is no longer vague
Seethe
Your life I abominate
Rage
Boiling deep within my head
Seethe
My mind is a cauldron of hate
^ Why is this any different? lol
Ok anyway back to what I was saying. I hated music like this.........I hated the music that I now love more then most anything in the world. I just didn't have an emotional attachment to it. I didn't understand it. Sometimes I still don't. But I love it. And my tastes will change with the times. But that love will always be there now that I understand.
There's always gonna be sh**ty bands ruining it for everyone is any genre but don't let that distract you from the other bands that are actually good and do it because they love it and because it's their passion. I love Korn now and I love Cannibal Corpse now and all the hardest hitting heavy metal the world has to offer me, they mean something to me. Regardless of whoever thinks it's cheesy or not BRANDED!! *points* lol.
Oh! (god there's too much to say about this) and you don't have to play fast or anything like that to still be good. A slow riff can be just as brutal and awesome and emotional as a fast riff can. That's like comparing Eric Clapton to Kerry King and saying King is better because he's faster. That'd just be stupid.
I say this to anyone. Be more open with your tastes in music and life in general. I think you'd enjoy it a lot more.
Damn.......hate written essays.....oh well. Peace.
NP: Machine Head - Locust <; The last 30 seconds of this song are awesomely brutal. Those riffs crush my soul.
Senior Reviewer
Thebeardedone666 said - "Its true we need to sop fighting about what type of Metal is real metal or not. It's all real Metal."
You do realise by saying "it's all real metal", you're arguing about what metal is real or not? Most people at least wait a post or two before contradicting themselves. Oh and I guess Nickelback and hell even Britney Spears are real metal now - Or is it "It's all metal! Unless it's not one of these genre's I decide." Who's the elitist now huh?
Member
How do you post a comment that gets"flagged"? Looking forward to your post,Z! You always weigh in with some common sense statements i agree with! And Ianplaysbass,probably a blanket statement on my part callin out younger metal heads. Guess i myself can be pretty judgemental,guess that happens when youve listened to metal for 30 years,and you read comments from youngins on the Kittie thread with douches espousing ICP. Dont mind me,i can be a grumpy,crusty,fvck sometimes!
Member
Cynic and BaD, I will admit I condradicted myself. I admit when I make a mistake. To clarify what I meant is a waste of time, because of course someone will have a negative post about that. But then again, I dont usually give two sh**s what anyone thinks.
To be honest, I dont consider most black or death metal to be music. Instrumentely...yes, but lyrically no. To me, and I say again TO ME, it should be a combination of both. As I stated above what music should be about. I know korns lyrics are vulger and angry, I never said a bands lyrics should be clean. I said cannibal corpse sings about garbage, sick sadistic trash. I didnt say I dont like raw emotion or bad language. Theres a big difference. But whatever, I contradicted myself and I realize that. I gues once again its all opions, thats right cynic, ITS OPINIONS. I know you believe nothing but facts spew from your mouth. But when it boils down. Its opinion.
PS I know ice cube toured with korn, it was FV 98, and I was there. I didnt say I hated rap. I just said most of it was garbage and meaningless. There is a few good rap artists out there. Eminem, kanye, jay z, TI. I like all kinds of music, but some has meaning and others dont.
Yup because its my opinion and it goes against yours. So that must mean I'm saying it as an argument. Go ahead call me an elitist. I'll gladly accept your opinion of me that you have thought up after only reading one post that I posted on this web page, in face its my fist post. So whoo pee your a big kid now.
And please tell me how I am being elitist I like to understand how people think of me.
Member
KornDogg: Is instrumental music (without vocals) not considered music? You keep saying there needs to be a combination of meaningful music and lyrics. Why? I would agree with you that great bands generally with showcase both, but that is not what defines a great band IMO.
Bands like Cannibal Corpse (why do they always get picked on lol) are considered great by many because of the intensity they bring. I don't know one fan of CC that would spend a 10 minutes glowing over their lyrics...but when they listen to CC they get this extremely heavy, fast, in your face and evil sound that pleases them in some way. CC gives fans of death metal the kind of energy they want when they want to hear some death metal..and to their credit they have stood the test of time.
I know you like your music a certain way (don't we all?), but throwing CC or black metal under the bus, by not considering it music, because of the disgusting/evil/satanic things they sing about seems silly.
Senior Reviewer
Thebeardedone666 - I think you've misunderstood the sarcasm in my post, I'll repeat it in the most boring way possible so you understand:
You said "we need to sop fighting about what type of Metal is real metal or not. It's all real Metal." My 3 points were:
1. declaring 'it' to be all metal is an argument (a declared opinion) and therefore you have contradicted yourself.
2. The argument of 'it's all metal', taken to it's logical extreme would have people like Brittney Spears being metal.
3. If you agreed with metal that the logical extreme in point 2 is silly, then you would need to introduce 'reasonable' limits on what is and isn't metal, making you an elitist by your own definition in point 1, making you by definition an elitist - i.e. someone who draws lines on what is and isn't metal.
And that in fact is the real killer argument. Everyone has their own opinion on what is and isn't metal, elitist is just a term for those who are slightly more restrictive.
Member
Oh my god! I wish my comment fvcking loaded before KD did post # 70!!!!!!! FFFFFVVVVCCCKK!! lol
It's all good R10 I'm not judgin' you. Be grumpy lol. I think it got flagged though because it's super long and it says fvck in it a lot because I posted Korn lyrics in it to prove a point to KORNDOGG and anyone else who doesn't consider death metal or black metal to be music which to me, I'm sorry, is the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard in my life. Not just because KD said it. If anyone said that I'd react the same.
All music has meaning to someone. Like I absolutely HATE!! The Jonas Brothers and other Disney and Nick music and Bieber and stuff of that nature cause it's just not my thing but while I don't consider it anything special (and wish them dead lol) the millions of preteens who are all hard for them will tell me different. But in a few years they'll grow up and their musical tastes will change. Everyone's musical taste changes at some point or another.
I just can't bash music. Any music. Because it's all good to someone. But I guess I'm kinda in a different world them some people. I mean I work and live in a music store with my family, a play guitar, bass and drums, and sing, and my dad is a gigging drummer who plays out on a weekly basis. So I'm always talking, and playing music and dealing with different forms of opinions everyday. I just went to Mayhem Fest last week, then last night I saw Butch Trucks from The Allman Brothers perform, and them I'm seeing Queensryche tomorrow. I can't just lump in with one type of music. Music IS! who I am. It's almost like an organ that I need to survive.
It pains me to see anyone talk bad about music. Of course I do it all the time I'm not perfect. But I try my best to take it for what it is because people look down upon what they don't understand........like death metal.
I'd like to think saying all this will make some sort of difference to someone, but sadly this is the internet and in most cases this will be overlooked and everyone will stick with their view and not open up to new opportunities, that could completely change their lives.
Member
God I remember when the heaviest music I listened to was Rob Zombie, and Du Hast lol. I didn't really like metal besides that. Then a friend played me Stabbing The Drama by Soilwork and BYOB by System Of A Down, oh and Feuer Frei by Rammstein. After that it opened my world to all this great music, but at the same time, I told myself when I found out about bands like Cannibal Corpse, and Korn that I'd never lower myself to listening to sh**ty music like that ever. Now Evisceration Plague, and Korn's Greatest Hits sit on my shelf haha. Because I opened myself up and was willing to listen to it and understand the people behind the music.
If you hear Cannibal Corpse and you don't like them you'll never know that Alex Webster is one of the nicest, well spoken, respectful individuals in death metal. He's making music he loves and he and all the other members are great players. It has meaning to them. And if I get into a death metal band like I want to it'd have meaning to me.
My outlook on metal is it's an amazing stress reliever. It's angry and brutal and it can really help people blow off steam and get out their aggression. Most metal is dark and brutal and that's what's great about it. It doesn't matter if the lyrics don't have meaning or if it's just about killing people or "pain and personal alienation" <; direct from Korns wiki lol. But those gore lyrics can have meaning to you but not the person next to you. It's all about being open minded.
I said this in the comment that didn't get posted but I'll say it again even if that doesn't get posted. The whole thing about how some people think the faster you play the better you are or the more you solo the better. I think that's really dumb. That's like comparing Eric Clapton to Kerry King but saying King is better because he's faster. Makes no sense. A slow song can be just as crushing an good as a fast song. The new Machine Head song sort of proves that point. The riffs are simple but great. And the end after the last chorus rips faces.
I just wish I knew how to put into words to make anyone understand. Because even after all that said I still feel it's not enough. Music is a topic that can keep rolling and rolling and never stop.
Music.......this is what I live for lol.
NP: I Love Music - Tech N9ne <;figured the topic called for this song haha.
Senior Reviewer
Well just think of the good cases ZMA - When I was younger my thoughts were almost exactly aligned with KORNDOGG's. I didn't like any black metal, and though I liked some death metal, I vehemently disliked anything with extreme lyrics (notably CC and Deicide). Now I hum hymn's to Satan in the shower!
Member
Agreed Cynic. This is embarrassing, back when I knew nothing about metal I thought Disturbed was the best metal band. The sound of Behemoth or Akercocke blasting on a stereo made me cringe. Now, I enjoy and highly respect both bands far more than Disturbed.
P.S. I gave up Disturbed a long time ago lol
Member
Thanks PPTF.
That's the only thing that keeps me going Cynic, that there are some people out there who enjoy music as much as me and just want to envelop their lives around it.
I was sort of in that boat PPTF. The only difference with me is after I got passed my love of Disturbed, I didn't exactly give them up. I just put their music aside. I still come back to it every now and again. It proves my "changing tastes" point. It's just like food. Your tastes change with age, and music is no exception.
Because yes while I moved onto other things I still believe that Disturbed is......well....was lol, a good band that shouldn't just be forgotten just because I'm into other stuff.
But I guess they've still stayed relevant to me cause of course everyone has music they used to listen to that they just don't ever listen to anymore. Spice Girls were like that for me. Haahooooo the 90's lmao.
Member
I run a one man Black Metal Band called BLACK NORTHERN REIGN BLACK METAL. As far as this joker is concerned, anything I would say has been said. The modern Underground is quite different from 20 years ago. Now as far as having to "answer" to anyone, F-you. I don't give a sh*t. And I do not answer to YOU. I play BLACK F-NG METAL and I really do not give a sh*t about your "metal" world. If your "metal world" is dying, that has NOTHING to do with me. I do not give a sh*t about your metal, "your" world, or whatever you are talking about.
Member
I hear everything your saying Z,you make some good points. Especially with tastes changing with time. I seem to be stuck music wise in a certain time frame. I tend to judge alot of stuff written in the mid 80's as some of my favorite stuff to listen to. Im usually quick to defend Metallica or Megadeth because of Master of Puppets and Peace Sells. I can remember when i first heard death metal in mid 80's and not caring for it(Possesseds 7 churches) . But my mind was so wrapped up into the thrash explosion anyway. I guess it took me awhile to appreciate death metal like Death,Deicide,CC,Obituary etc. It had nothing to do with lyrics. It seems the older i get,the easier it to really listen to the classics by Entombed,Dismember,Grave,etc. I actually like old Sepultura now more than i did when it came out. Back than i was so intuned to what the Metallicas,Slayers were doing that i didnt give proper listens to some of the other classic bands. Interesting topic,could go on for ever about it.
Founder, owner & programmer
ZMA: I just posted your long comment. Excessively long comments do get flagged for moderation just because some of the spam attempts are massively long and would be extra annoying to let through unmoderated.
To Cynic and PTF: I think that's how the vast majority of metalheads are. Most of us were introduced to less extreme metal and gradually moved into the more extreme realms by exploring. I think that the extremeness is an acquired taste, especially with the vocals. There are a number of bands that I initially couldn't get into due to the vocals and gradually accepted and even came to like the vocal delivery over time (Deicide - my first extreme/death metal, Lamb of God - hated Randy's vocals at first, even Sepultura was a step in that direction and the vocals on Beneath the Remains were a little raw for my Metallica-fed pallete at the time). It's always funny to look back at that and to hear younger metalheads or metal newbies say things like "black metal is not even music." I better stop there before I sound like an elitist :-)
Member
ZMA: thanks for pointing at me!!!! hahahaaha. but seriously, a lot of CC is kinda cheesy!
Entrails ripped from a virgin's c*nt
Meat Hook Sodomy
Post mortem ejaculation
While not a CC fan, Im not saying they suck, are trash, or anything like that. I just find some of their song titles and lyrics to be kinda cheesy.
Member
Paraphrasing what Deathbringer aptly pointed out, the vast majority of us cut our teeth on 'lighter' music before discovering and exploring 'heavier' styles. The heavier or more extreme music is harder to digest at first and can take a few listens for the listener to comprehend what is going on in the music.
As an example for Korndogg:
When Korn released their first album, I thought (and still do) it was a great album. I liked the staccato drum beats and the slab bass in the rhythm section. The way they used seven string guitars wasn't as common then as it has become today. The vocals were powerful and raw and filled with genuine emotion.
But with each successive release it seems like the formula got diluted. The drums became simpler, the bass lines and guitar riffs repeat the same themes and the vocals seem tired and uninspired… at least to me. For me, they didn’t grow in the same direction that I did. I am no longer interested in songs about the experience of pain and alienation, and I find it difficult to be convinced that a 40 year old man like Jonathan Davis can still sing credibly about the same topics over and over for 15+ years.
I’m more into well written lyrics (a varied vocabulary helps) that address solutions instead of continually talking about symptoms of a problem ad nauseum.
OK, so you have a problem. What are you going to do about it? Solve it and move on. Sh!t or get off the pot. Korn still has meaning to some people and that’s fine, but I’m no longer one of them. Some people love to eat french fries and that’s fine, but I’m no longer one of them.
I like a lot of the lyrics from KSE, Vulgar era Pantera, and feel the lyrics on the entire Exhorder album “The Law”, are very well written – even if I disagree with that message.
Currently, I have been having a hard time prying Opeth out of my CD player. Musically, Opeth satisfy a craving, yet leave me wanting another taste when the song is over. Tool has also been that way for me, but Opeth is my current obsession. The Deliverance and Damnation albums both contain so much flavor that mouth waters at the thought of the crescendo build up in ‘Closure’, the haunting keyboards in “Windowpane”, the dueling outro rhythms in “Deliverance”, the awesome riffage in “Master’s Apprentice”, or the journey of “A Fair Judgment”.
(cue Homer Simpson… “Mmmmauaglghl… Opeth”)
The point of all this is:
1. Don’t diss an avocado just because you didn’t like the guacamole with your taco salad. Give it shot, put it in your mouth and chew slowly. Examine the texture. Let the flavor cross your tongue gently. If it is not to your liking, then at least you’ll be able to explain distinctly why, instead of just saying it sucks.
2. Don’t limit your diet to fried chicken. Sure it’s greasy and finger lickin’ good, but a steady diet of nothing but will lead to vitamin deficiency. It’s all about balance and there is so much out there that you can’t taste it all.
REACH OUT AND EXPLORE!!!
OK, enough of the food analogy. You may now resume your regularly scheduled programming….
Member
This video has some of the worst arguments ever. While I do sort of agree with his comment about the "mainstream", mainstream "metal" bands usually aren't appealing to people who like Slayer, Mayhem, Skeletonwitch, and other bands that are more extreme. That being said, just because they're underground doesn't make bands good. However I, and I'm assuming a lot of other metal heads, do not like most mainstream metal bands.
Cynic - Seeing how sarcasm is hard to tell when your talking to a person face to face for its different for every one else. How am I going to be able to tell by reading? If some one wants to say Spears is Metal I'll let them say that and think it. I have no right to say there wrong.
Thank you.
Member
Actually,the comments have been far more enlightening than the vid! This "old school" metallers learning something new with every comment. I agree Drummer J with all you stated! I also love the first few Korn releases if thier placed in the time context of when they were released,metal was a trashed and beaten down genre then,due to grunges dominance in pop culture. I still bust those early Korn albums out,theyve held up well imo over time. Also with ya on the KSE lyrics,especially Jesse Leachs words. You can make your own interpretations about them,but for me,they were pretty empowering,and uplifting. Can definately tell he grew up the son of a preacher. I really enjoy reading the comments,even svens sermon. Much better than the fellas vid imo.
Member
Yea Greed,hope sven comes back and lets us know what he really feels and knows! He obviously took the time to join and drop his super positive statement about metal upon us. Look forward maybe oneday to see his one man black metal thing in a live enviroment also. Id get a fvckin kick outta that sh**! Np: Bruisers/ Intimadation 97
Member
Gentleman,i thank you. I was gonna google that sh** this morning,but this douche turned me off with his fvckin hate sermon. That bullsh** is quite literally the fvckin worst sh** ive ever heard! This poser needs to come clean with an apologie for wasting everyones time with his opinions and garbage one man bullsh**! I would choose to listen to silence than this mans "art" ! Sven,please come back poser and explain yourself!
Member
Yea KD,id go as far as say id listen to Kesha. As bad as it sounds .Greed? A loss for words? Not like you. Sven should not come back to this site,after exposing himself as a poser he is. Hey KD,good black metal,Enslaved,seeing em in Sept in Cambridge Ma. Check em out.
Senior Reviewer
The best way to get into anything is slowly KD! If you're looking for vids have a listen to these tracks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdRtZok4UTU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN6QzGjvSNw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNi7w3cvvmI
For the record, 'Transylvanian Hunger' was the band that changed my mind about black metal. Which is odd, seeing as how it's one of the rawest things out there.
Member
Hey KD,thanks for checking them out though. Yea,the musics indeed badass! Takes a while to get into the vocals,took me a while back in the day to get the "death metal" vox. It would probably help if you also had thier lyrics in front of you. I myself dont like all black metal,svens example of it seems to be the worse i ever heard! Cheers dude!
Member
R10: There's a history involved here that you don't understand because you weren't a member yet but I fully expect to see something posted soon by Kalis Wrath in rebuttle to everyone's opinion to her man's music. She sent me links a while back to a myspace page or something but I never had connectivity and never gave it a listen. I'm no expert on black metal, but that wasn't er, very, like much.
Member
Yea i am really waiting for a response now!!! This should def make her flip about 10 trips after reading those posts, if she or sven even returns to see the damage he has done to himself!!! WUHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHA
The vid that gets me laughing the most was his side to side crouch walk, kind like a 2 legged crab! WTF WAS THAT?!?!
Member
So Greed,you expect me to get called by this women because of my opinions? Ok,im sorry,sven is the best one man black metal band in West Virginia! My bad,didnt instantley recognize the talent. Sorry,i could record a bunch of fart and burp sounds,play drums with a wooden spoon and soup pot and it would still sound better than that fvckin crap! Ill be at the Enslaved show in Cambridge Ma Sept 26,at the Middle East should someone truly take offense to my opinion! Sven/fvckin poser!
Member
I was asked to return to clarify, so here.
It started many years ago when I was came to the united states. Pretty much, instead of being accepted, I was rejected. I was labeled an Elitist. There was nothing special about me, except that my mannerisms originated from England and Scandinavia. But people did not care about that, if some thing is not American to many Americans, it does not make sense to them. Many Americans can be rude and ignorant of other people that are not like them, and this is what I faced. So, I spent the following 3 YEARS trying to be the nice guy, trying to be compliant, trying to be how they want me to be, to literally throw my own self identity away because it did not make sense to them. I did everything they said, and I became whatever they wanted me to become. And guess what happened. They just walked all over me and left me like trash in the street. I was the nice guy, and I finished last. I gave the benefit of doubt, and I just got used and discarded like trash. During that third year, I learned a lesson that I sincerely already knew would happen. But I had to give the benefit of doubt. I did not want to come to the United States and be arrogant. Well, first time, shame on you, and there will be no “second time, shame on me.” So whenever I hear someone trying to tell me how I should be, I lash out and I bite hard with no mercy like some wild dog. It was because of what I went through. It is nothing personal. I have no hatred or no violent intentions. I understand this is just a forum. Now due to the nature the discussion, In which someone labels another person as an Elitist and which includes someone trying to tell someone else how they should be, I kept my silence. Everyone has an opinion, and as far as I am concerned everyone can say their opinions all day long, and that fine with me. You guys can have the last word, because I have spoken “my two cents.” I'm done.
Member
So now, just like in times past, not only there are people here who make fun of me, but this time around there are people here who are making fun of my wife.
Is this the type of caliber of people who are supposed to know better? Not only did some of you guys re open an old wound, you spat on it, and on my wife as well.
Member
Well, guess what. I am going to keep on being me, whether or not anyone likes it.
I will not change my ways just because someone else tells me toI am going to keep on putting on my spikes, and I am going to keep on playing black metal. I am going to continue making my silly looking black metal videos and I am going to keep doing what I do because it is part of who I am, and it is a part of my culture in which I was born and raised.
Member
So I am going to keep on being an Elitist, and I am going to do it proudly. I am not taking any crap from some person.
I played classical music in school, I started back in the mid 1970's playing a violin.
I mentioned my band because my background is on the band site, I figured there was no need to re invent the wheel.
I do not give a sh-t about making money from my music. That is not my "day job".
I do because I LOVE IT, and I do not give a crap whether I am successful or not.
Some of you guys who have been attacking me and my wife,
well, this is America after all, isn't it?
I never attacked any of you. Just the author of this post because he was attacking Elitists. And I have been labeled as an Elitist. Not by me, but by your fellow Americans.
Why should you resort to attacking me and my Wife?
I never said a single word to any of you.
I really thought some of you guys were better than this.
Oh well.
Member
So yes, I do not care, because I already knew where this was going.
I really do not care. I did not even care about this topic, I was asked to say something, so I did.
And at least, I can spell correctly.
So remember, I am the Elitist, I am the d***, I am this, I am that, sure, no problem, because I really do not care, and I am smiling about it. I can be an Elitist all over the place but I choose to attend to more important affairs.
Well, I hope you guys had you fun. And no, I will not come back here unless I am asked. So just make sure that no one asks me to come back here. To the Moderators- Nothing against MU but I am being the better person in this topic. I'm Out.
Member
Again, a Reminder.
I can be an Elitist all over the site. I am not talking about anyone else, just me. I did not join this site and I did not involve myself in any topics.
I WAS ASKED TO. So, all of you REMEMBER, do not have anyone ask me to be here. It is quite simple.
Ignore this topic and pretend like it never happened.
Take Care.
Member
Holy frikken hellfvck...Svennie boy, chill the fvck out. I loved your videos, I ain't laughed like that in a long time...thanks man!
As far as your 'persecuted' attitude goes, well brother, that's a tough road to tread...in my general experience, the world ain't out to get any respective individual...that perspective come from within. I have known many a good and decent person to suffer this psychological maladie, and it is crippling to them socially. You say you don't care social interaction, but you clearly do, and are seeking it actively...otherwise you wouldn't be expressing and defending yourself here, and you most certainly not be doing your best impressions of Abbath on a sunny spring day in the peaceful wood...you definitily wouldn't give a flying fvck about the good natured jabs at you and yours on here, that's sure
So maybe Big R has been a bit harsh with ya...the essence of what he has conveyed is absolutely true, you come across as someone who is suffering a chronic and excruciating self-identity crisis...I ain't tryin to cut ya down man, just tellin ya like I see it
A secret: take what you do seriously, but NEVER take yourself seriously...it leads to a highly dysfunctional state of narcissistic cynicism...NOT a flourishing place to exist
Now, peace to you Northern Black Metaller, but I bid you heed this warning: don't ya ever come on here declariing yourself to be the biggest elitist d!ck on this good 'underground...you ain't EVER gonna claim This Crown muthafukker :)
NP---Black Metal--- !!
Member
What gets me laughing the most is his video where he talks about his "band". He sounds as if he is forcing the words out to sound more bad a$$ than he is. Holding the yellow envelope and reading from a page doesnt make him look very BM!!! Just a shame that kalis is wasting her time with him. The folowing quote was taken from a page he has online:
"" I am Odinist, Asatruar, but Christian first..""
Sven-a-roni, please tell me how a "Christian" can be all 3!!
Writer/Reviewer
Wow... I used to think my posts were pontificating, verbose and elitist screeds of self-aggrandizing blow-hard, hot air meaninglessness. Glad to see others are carrying that torch for me. :)
Elitism is not killing metal. Neither is any sub-genre of the art itself. Metal is healthy, vibrant and ever-evolving. It slips into the public discourse, gets blamed for a few deaths and fades from memory until someone else commits a strange atrocity.
This thread has become comic. Everyone lighten up. It's just metal.
Writer/Reviewer
On a side note, iAMVyt assumes too much.
The whole bit about social media networks etc twists the meaning of "underground" past the point of recognition.
iAMVyt also seems to think that because many if not most metal fans hate rap, country or other genres, that fans of those genres don't have a similar hatred or disregard for metal. Laughably one-sided case he makes there.
The video was the well-meaning but ninformed, wimpering display of some middling peacemaker.
Member
hr: I have a therapy thread going in the forum and I plan to take some time off soon for a much needed vacation. Would you perhaps consider stepping in for me in my absence? You've proven yourself qualified to assume the role previously, but you really hit a home run with your last post. If your interested call my secretary so that I may leave you a forwarding number. I have one patient in particular that i'd like to be notified immediately if she makes contact.
Member
One thing i dont understand is the aggresive statements in post 82. Why advertise yourself if you dont care or want the attention? And then get all emotional after you received it. Confusing. And yes Greed,HR would fill into your MD roll perfectly. Actually i had a big smile on my face when responding to Sven,dont take any of it too seriously. Remember Metals right,its only metal,nothing to get too chafed about.
Member
Svendorrian: So if I understand correctly (which i'm not sure that I do), the point of your original post was to announce your elitist attitude and allegiance to black metal because you feel like an outcast? I'm pretty sure everyone here has felt like an outcast at one point or another. That's why we found metal.
Member
R10: If your post was directed at me regarding why you didn't like my music then I would analyse your perspective, assess it accordingly and either apply it or ignore it depending on the weight and seriousness of your critique. I can't imagine any other musician feeling any differently about it unless he/she is an egomaniacle a$$hole. I play metal (regardless of the sub-genere) and metalheads are my best critics. \m/\m/
Member
Lol damn Sven what happened to "I have spoken "my two cents" I'm done"? Seeing 6 other comments after that doesn't mean you're done good sir....
Anyway thanks for posting my comment deathbringer! Appreciated. Was starting to think I'd never see it.
branded, See that comment on Cannibal Corpse was the perfect comment for a good reason and here it is. You didn't just immediately bash them even though you're not really that much of a fan. You just said you're not a fan and why you're not a fan. If more people did that the fights wouldn't happen as much as they usually do all over the internet.
Drum_Junkie made some really good points with post 90. He said what I couldn't put to words. Explore different kinds of music because not one type of music is superior then another. I know this line is sorta korny <; HA!! but the phrase: Music = Life comes to mind after typing that. But yea very well said DJ.
Plus it's like R10 is back in school with all this new learning =D heh heh.
Member
I hear what your saying Greed. I might have read a little too much into svens brash and aggressive indictments on post 82 . Apparentley they were directed to the maker of the video. I still think he opened himself up to critique with his manner and advertising of his band. I would expect alot of howls and negative feedback if i posted videos of my singing. Its downright terrible,i would deserve the catcalls. My opinion shouldnt matter to sven,ive supported metal for 30 years,buying product and going to shows. I have nothing personal against sven or his wife,was just responding to the super aggresive nature of his post. All is well as far as im concerned.
camon people...i think that there is more than
enough commercial music/mtv top20/ crap
that is more image than music.
HEAVY METAL is just fighting to stay metal
and not get commercial becuse of money and
greedy coporate bastards that mix metal just
to make more money....music for masses.
Founder, owner & programmer
Wow - lots happened in 1.5 days... R10, Sven's comments weren't directed at you and I don't get why you're overreacting to it and involving his wife. You definitely crossed the line with the attacks, so please try to step back a little next time and don't make it personal. There was really no reason for the thread to take such a harsh turn. Thanks.
It's me, Kali's wrath. I can't get into my account, and am not going to make another one.
You know, I was going to go on a long tirade on all of this, but I decided not to. Thank you to Deathbringer for standing up for Sven. You are 100% correct, sir!
Brian, I do think it's funny that you would talk sh** to Sven when you're loser with no job, and your wife is paying the bills. Good work on officially never being welcome in my life ever again! I hope your life stays sh**ty because you deserve it.
R10, I don't know you nor do I give a flying f*** as to what you think.
This just goes to show why it was smart for me to leave this site. Too many idiots are on here.
Blind, you were right that I would end up posting after learning of this stupidity.
My Satan some people's children suck!
This Watain Disciple has spoken! -l-
Member
Ive been trying to find a job for a while, JUST NO JOBS TO BE HAD HERE IN THE CHARLOTTE AREA. Dont think anything your illiterate wannabe satanist a$$ says will ever hurt me. You are nothing but a fake a$$ to begin with. You claim to be a satanist, yet you are with a christian ( WHO ALSO CLAIMS ODINISM AND W/E ELSE HE CLAIMS TO BE)!! You think you are so kvlt but show your retardation in everything you do. The band you worship hates inter-breeding and believes in ethnic cleansing, but your delusional wannabe self cant see the truth. IM GLAD IM NOT WELCOME BACK INTO YOUR LIFE. I flushed you like the nugget you are! I, and plenty of others, grew tired of having to read you lame a$$ Fb posts about seeing a spider, cleaning the house, going to the base to do w/e, NOONE FKN CARES, yet you still think people look at you like some kind of inspirational person! YEA, ON HOW NOT TO BE. TY FOR TELLING IM NOT WELCOME BACK, TALK ABOUT A FEELING OF RELIEF OF NEVER HAVING TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH SUCH A FAKE A$$ WANNABE LIKE YOURSELF!! I feel much better! Dont think the people that you consider friends think the same of you!! Your man's music is pure dogsh!t! When he speaks, it makes people wonder if he is all there in the brain!! AGAIN IM NOT GIVING 2 SH!TS ABOUT NOT BEING WELCOME BACK INTO YOUR LIFE! I dont wish to be around fake wannabes who act like fkn children and think that dressing in spikes and praising satan makes them super kvlt! You talk about idiots here, but over the years, your illiterate self showed how dumb and ignorant you really are. YOU ARE NOBODY AND NEITHER IS YOUR MAN! You just keep on spouting your retardation about hail satan and supporting a man whos music will go nowhere, because he has you brainwashed into thinking he is some kind of special BM god! WUHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA, WHAT A SHAME!!
Member
And here's my two cents...
ON THE VIDEO:
I agree that just because a band sees financial success and gains popularity, doesn't mean they sold out. Its about the quality of the music. Some bands started off strong but lost their momentum and got dumbed down/boring after the first few albums (e.g. Metallica). Thats not selling out. They just suck. And we shouldn't hate the mainstream (but of course, if your first mainstream listening experience happens to be Ke$ha, I totally understand if you never want to leave the rock you're under ever again). And honestly, I love Metal more than any other genre. My key influences are Metal. My whole mentality comes from Metal. But it doesn't stop me from listening to other artists of different genres, mainstream or not (Yes, as most of you already know I'm a big Lady Gaga fan. Yes I will go to a concert at some point).
Now, there are bands that just changed their style and in my opinion, it was still good; e.g. Behemoth. They started out as pure Black Metal, then they changed their style after "Pandemonic Incantations" to incorporate more Death Metal. Elitists say they sold out. But thats just a change in dynamic, not selling out. I like Behemoth's Black Metal period as much as I like Behemoth's current Blackened Death Metal sound.
HOWEVER, There is a difference between elitists and people with good taste...I do give unfamiliar bands an honest listen before I decide whether or not I like them. And whether or not they suck. There are bands that have skill, but I just don't like their style. And there are bands that I flat out don't like skillwise or stylistically. And SKILL IS A FACTOR! Making complex work in your music is what ADVANCES Metal! And I don't know metalheads that DON'T appreciate Classical. I myself do, and I even appreciate [good] Rap.
ALSO! There aren't enough elitists to kill the Metal scene? You know what is killing Metal? f***ing Nu Metal/-core bands! Nu Metal really DOES NOT require skill or creativity to start. And bear in mind, there are great -core bands that I listen to (and even some Nu Metal bands that are quite heavy and technical for their genre, believe it or not). But guess why the few -core bands
I listen to are good...They incorporate more Metal in their style than other -core bands such as:
Whitechapel- definitely more Death than -core.
Pre-"Black Crown" Suicide Silence- more Death than -core ("Black Crown" is f***ing happycore...There's nothing metal about that).
Killswitch Engage, more Metal than -core.
Byleth- incorporates more Death and even Black Metal influence than -core.
ON THE THREAD:
As Drum Junkie said, you gotta try everything before you make a judgment call. And as you grow your tastes grow. When I was 14, I got into Korn. Nu Metal is a good starter. Another good starter is old school Metal (Sabbath, Priest, Maiden). But then I was introduced to Death Metal and Gothic Metal. It kinda branched off from there. And a lot of the reason I got into Extreme Metal and old school Heavy Metal: Skill! But again, you have to f***ing grow. Maturity definitely is a factor in developing your taste! Look at Korn and Linkin Park. Their early stuff was mainly preteen/teen angst. Guess what, when you become an adult you aren't gonna identify with teen angst, why? Because you've [hopefully] grown out of that phase.
ON SVENNDORIAN:
Believe it or not...he's just doing him. A lot of Black Metal artists do make a lifestyle around their music and ideals (Look at artists from Norway). Black Metal ideology is individuality in its purest form. Doing what you want to do just because you want to and hating everyone else. Granted, I don't agree with that complete isolation, and I also may not be a fan of his music. But Sven actually in the definitions of the more 'trve' is living by it.
ON EVERYTHING ELSE RELATED TO THIS THREAD:
I genuinely don't give a f*** after this post. I like what I like, what I like is awesome.
Member
And branded, I have to correct you on the Watain being racist thing:
"NSBM is a joke, a despaired approach of people who're incapable to comprehend the perversion and the insanity of Black Metal. They're trying to appear extreme and limit their selves in their conception to that kind of society, which describes something that we wouldn't care less about. f*** the world! Black Metal doesn't have anything to do with the world like you know it."
---Erik Danielsson (Vox/Bassist of Watain)
branded/Liz/Everyone else getting into it with Liz and/or Sven: We are all passionate individuals with differing individual views. We are all going to disagree on things. But:
1. In the end, we like what we like.
2. We can all agree that none of us wishes utter tragedy upon anyone else here, regardless of how passionately we disagree on things and
3. Its the f***ing internet...
I really wish you guys would stop fighting over dumb sh**.
Member
GC: And the bass player is of South American descent if i'm not mistaken. I don't believe his word is all there is to it. Just sayin... I know some people who know some people who once touched the hand of the guy that walked Elvis Presley's dog. Elvis was a trve cvlt satanist.
Member
Nice copy and paste there GC! HOWEVER, you left out the part before that (on wiki) where it says they wore shirts of a NSDM band called Absurd and gave the hitler salute to band!! ANY TRUE NON RACIST WOULD NEVER GIVE THE HITLER SALUTE!! And when asked if they were racist he gave an evasive answer never denying or admitting it, but gave the response you pasted.
These will be my last words on this site.
I am having a chuckle about the fact that Brian(Branded) has bold faced lied to me. After years of being my friend, and calling me sister he deleted me from Facebook, and wasn't even man enough to tell me why when he did it. After asking him through text message why, or if Facebook had deleted him from my page on accident he said it was because he didn't like my Satanic post's. He then said he didn't hate me, or anything. Now I find out he is talking sh** about both me, and my husband.
He is no true friend, or brother. He has failed the test of time, and all of this even though I have done nothing to wrong him, or his fat ugly wife.
May Satan make him, and his wife fatter, and may they both perish in the most painful way. Hopefully they end up having to watch each other die.
Farewell to all on metal underground. Those who I have made friends with I will keep around, but I will never come back to this site.
-l- HAIL SATAN! HAIL WATAIN! -l-
Disciple out!
Member
I didnt realize i had to tell her that i deleted her out. And i dont hate her, just got tired of her boring posts about her life like everything she does matters to the entire fkn world. I deleted her and when she asked me why i told her. she can claim i lied but i told her the truth as to why i deleted her when she asked. i didnt hide from it, i told her. and she still tries to sound so awsome about her life as a "satanist" which is just a pure joke in itself.
Member
Wow... what posts..... I'm wordless like a finn on a metal site.
Having actually read most of the posts in here, I guess it's safe to say that judging by the passion and faith you guys have for metal and your own ways, Metal won't be going anywhere for a very long time, if ever.
The final line on GC's post #159 really says it all, IMO.
Life is life, my dear brothers and sisters. So it goes.
- The trick is to keep breathing - love your mate and don't suffocate in your own hate (Garbage and INXS quoted which is enough for anyone to delete me as a FB buddy ;)
Member
I know nothing about this chick but just the fact that she's a satanist makes me wanna slam my face into a brick wall. I think being a satanist is even more stupid then being a scientologist which is really saying something lol.
WOLF you made a good point. I firmly believe that metal will be part of music for decades to come. It's a genre that brings out the colors and emotions in anyone. Which is funny because the metal head "image" seems to be the opposite. Black, and angry.
Supporter
I can't read all 169 posts but I skimmed enough to see what happened. I don't know Svendorrian but Kali is probably the nicest person I've never met. And at the risk of getting flamed off this site, I'm going to say that if you don't like her then you don't know her.
Member
Cynic: im not mad. im laughing about it all actually. she thinks by saying those things about me and my wife she is really getting to me. We are both laughing about it.
BT: No flames here either. After so long the satanist thing grew old and retarded. Thats why i deleted her, and I told her that when she asked me. i DONT hate her, but laugh at how she tries to act so satanic with all her sayings about her satanic life. Does it really make her special or awesome? I dont think so, but she does. But o well, she put a curse on me and my wife, just like some stupid middle school/high school wannabe satanist would do when mad at someone!! Now we are doomed for eternity!!!! haahahahhaha
Chin up, branded. If you look at it straight, the tactics employed in cursing often refer to psychological malady and resemble the tactics used in narcissistic abuse. The rest is “I’m real mad so I burned a candle real mad like” and doesn’t do much unless the psychological abuser gets their hooks in. That’s why practitioners of this refer to the “danger” of failing under their own curse. What they actually fail to is abuse and their own psychology. The old adage that the harder you try to control someone, the further the abuse carries out to a dreadful end. Couldn’t care less if people take their anger out on candles, but becoming a victim of an abuser is a different story. Power and control. That’s the problem with it. It gives some people an edge, while others just suffer their feeble minds and petty abuse tactics. My $0.02 about curses. Certainly not the one and only opinion out there. But, you know, the further the belief goes in the curse on either side, (except in the case of people who just use it as empowerment and are otherwise stable) the more a psychological malady is exposed, ie., delusions of personality, etc. In a healthy way, it’s supposed to be “getting the power back” but in an unhealthy way it’s just a way to bully, with all the bullsh** down the line that that type has to face, hence the “satanism will destroy you if you fail” stuff. "Real" satanists inevitably try to kick my a$$ when I say this stuff. What that has to do with elitists killing metal… don‘t know.
Heavy metal elitists? That is just an oxy-moron. Metal has been always challenging and raging against the status quo.... metal listeners vis' a vie elititists???? I don't think so... Metalists hate the harvard yard crowd.... or the very wealthy... I dont' know what this guy is talking about!
gathering from the comment section, it'd be safe to assume that a lot of people on this site are the "I don't like it so it's not metal" type.
I for one listen to what an elitist would call "true" metal, bands like Entombed, Death, Obituary, Necrophagist, etc.
But I also listen to and enjoy the newer wave of death metal, I.E: Whitechapel, The Black Dahlia Murder, Carnifex, and Oceano...you know, the newer metal bands that all you kiddies seem to love to hate.
To me, it all flies under the same flag. Metal is metal. I don't even call the old school metal bands "old school" metal. I call them classic. Classic metal is to Classic rock as the new wave of death metal(or "death"core as you ignorant ones like to call it) is to hard rock.
If these kids in these bands weren't out trying to carry the flag for metal, who would be? Would metal fall out of the spotlight? I think so.
For example, the summer slaughter tour. If dying fetus was headlining and whitechapel and TBDM were not playing, would the tour net as much money? I seriously highly doubt it. The new wave of death metal is good for metal as a whole. Stop b****ing. If you don't like it, don't listen to it, but it's not going to go away anytime soon.
One last question for the ignorant ones out there. Those of you that said "core" would be gone by the mid 2000's, what do you have to say now that those bands you thought would never make it are now rising to critical acclaim and putting out award winning albums? Just a thought.
Member
Well, well, well...
I agree on some points with you here. But I'm not gonna say these -core bands are "carrying the flag" as you put it...We have yet to see whether or not these bands will really leave their mark. Nu Metal took up alittle over a decade as well. Are there any new Nu Metal bands on the rise now? Are there any new heads to any of their fanbases? Honestly, let these scenekids grow up first. If the full-grown adults still appreciate them as rabidly as they did as preteens/teenagers, and if younger generations are still getting into them, then talk sh**.
Don't get me wrong, I like a handful of -core bands (as I mentioned earlier). But I'm not gonna out and make a grandiose statement like that. They have to be able to transcend well past a decade
Member
Well,...........as well seemed to put it I'm glad I don't fall under that "I don't like it so it's not metal" type. And if you did read a lot of the comments you'd know that a fair amount of people on this just enjoy music. Well ok I shouldn't speak for everyone, so I'll say I just enjoy all music for the must part.
I don't hate core. I listen to a fairly large amount of core actually. Bands that actually push the envelope of what core is. I for one don't see core dying as much as I see the bands who do it right, take it and evolve it into something better or different like musics been doing for decades.
ZMA totally agree bro! I find myself enjoying the music of core bands that implement more of their roots into their music as opposed to just playing chugalug breakdowns over and over again.
Examples of this would be Job for a Cowboy(check out their new 5 track, straight up technical death metal. It rips), and The Black Dahlia Murder(their new album is very good as well). Bands like Whitechapel and Carnifex are deviating from the linear landscape of bland generic deathcore and incorporating more and more of that old school sound, which I can totally get down with!
I guess I'm a liberal metalhead, in metalhead political terms LOL.
Member
Doc...my regrets, but I can't help cover ya at the clinic in your absence, as I am not allowed to see patients anymore...the board yanked my license. I guess they didn't much care for me recommending that my 'hopeless' cases take up BASE jumping as recreation ;)
Hell, I been tryin to kill Metal for 30+ years now...what could I be doing wrong? I don't know how i could possibly be more of a close minded elitist d!ck...suggestions?
Member
Blind I have no idea where to get any of those things. I'd love to try strooplewaffles. That sh!t looks damn good. You're lucky Oz loves you and sends you Lion Bars.
hr, yea I agree with branded, just keep bein' you. If you really wanna kill metal though start with Metallica. That'd put a small dent in metal heh heh.
Member
Come on now boys, quit bein' lazy! 'just being me' has obviously done absolutely nothing to kill off this disgusting METAL plague that has maligned our good western culture for nearly five decades...any other advice?
Zman, me and brand have been doing our best to kill off the last decade's Sh!tallica psychosis for as long as either of us have been here...again, to apparently no greater avail
What the fvck are we doing wrong??? Could it be that ya just can't kill METAL?
now there's a thought...
NP---Elitist---Metal D!ck
I wonder what the true enemies of metal are thinking though lol.
All I really tried to say is all this genre subdivision stuff is pitting us against each other when we should be doing all we can to make sure metal never becomes sh** like...pierce the veil or a day to remember. I HATE when people say ADTR are a metal band.
Member
Well, A Day To Remember are metal........but they aren't. They aren't really holding back metal, but they aren't expanding it either. They're taking the catchiness that pop punk has and incorporating certain metal elements into it. I've heard it done better by other bands but I'm not gonna lie, I'm a fan. Sorry lol.
Sometimes you need that simple but aggressive band in your playlist. Helps you appreciate the bands that are carrying the torch.
Member
Z,you got a way about your honest opinions that evryone,including myself should learn something from! You wade in,throw cool,calm,opinion into a thread,and people take you far more seriously! Appreciate your honesty! I gotta get over my grumpiness,your way of approaching it is better. Guess i can be set in my ways abit,to my disadvantage.
Member
simple, yet aggressive...Z, as Big R has recently dicovered, there is such a band that readily fills such a niche....WITHOUT compomising ELITIST METAL INTEGRITY
They are called The Crown. They are from Trollhatten, Sverige. They fvckin kick ass. You should listen to them.
NP---Satanist---Johan Lindstrand fronting The Crown
Metal elitism prevents progression, causes limitations, downgrades quality in metal, and f***s up the genre for those with a more diverse taste in heavy metal music.
No matter what sub-genre from heavy metal comes to the forefront(like metalcore right now) heavy metal has always and probably will always remain in it's underground state. Don't even get me started with the 1980s. It was mostly manufactured pop rock/metal/hair/glam that represented form of metal that was popular/mainstream.
Only Metallica ever managed to surface to the top.
Member
Heil Scheiss, get the fvck out of here, ya frikken goofball...you are clearly FAR outside of your element...walk on home boy, come back when you got something meaningful to convey
R, the record with Tompa on vox is Crowned in Terror \m/
NP---Satanist---Tompa fronting The Crown
Member
Ya blind, I was saying that we should shoot for at least 300...but then, we're gonna need those of Svendorrian's and Hielscheiss' ilk to achieve that goal...
Hell, it'll be a perfect exercise of how western 'democratic' politics work...say what you feel, let your 'individual' voice 'be heard...we'll apply it or discount it according to how your message fits into, or disrupts our ELITIST METAL agenda
Don't be shy now voters! and never you mind that slathering pack of guard dogs....they're just friendly little pups....just lookin for chicken ;)
Member
yes, Windwalker....we are ALWAYS in the spirit world my brother, unlike the majority of the corn doggie mall-core fvcks on here
Cynic, you are a real motherfvckin D!CK, you know that? no symathy for the weak who have a frail and misguided METAL ambition....excellent \m/
kill chickens till they're dead...
Senior Reviewer
@hellrat - Got some lyrics just for you:
"Filthy hair and dirty faces
Flying V's and swords and maces
80's hair bands are still hated
No false metal tolerated
Heavy metal is the law
Weakness means a broken jaw
Everything is loud and fast
Metal up your f***ing ass
Metal plane on metal trip
Metal hand, metal grip"
- GWAR, "Metal Metal Land"
@BG - Gave avoiding this thread my best shot! Just can't put the flame in my gut out haha.
Member
Please no more svendorrian and misses,HR! I got carried away in my critique,should have wished sven and misses well! Live and learn dude! Im following z-mans model from this point forward! A kinder,gentler me,less judgemental,fvckin a$$hole i am, completely understanding of folks who dont see eye to eye with my elitist a$$hole vision :-) !!!
Member
No, don't you cop out on us R10, we NEED more old skool d!cks like you on here
I personally think 'Bringer was a bit hard on ya...don't know why exactly...he didn't seem to mind Brand and Kali displaying their Inner Child :)
I harbor no worries about the futere of the METAL elite...we are strong, and pay constant heed to, and represent, the forefront...I don't see that aspect dwinding anytime soon
Let the posers give us thier best....we'll just make recreation out of em...there's nothin like shootin chickens at close range with the sawed off 12....boring, but mildly fun! :)
Member
Nah,Branded,that sh** aint fun! If you got the treatment you got,because of my fvckin mouth,im sorry! You handled that sh** well,dude! My wiseass got the best of me,prez had every right bringing order to his site! Love this site,first one i check,has alot to do with the "old school" members and what they know about metal! Seriously,check out Lambgoat or Blabbermouth comments for proof!
Member
Alright dude! Thought she might have gone extra hard on you because of what i said. She only called me an idiot,which i can handle,the sh** betweem you and her seemed much more personal. I can personally deal with getting called a retard,but some of the other sh**?..
Member
Sweet jumpin' jellybeans! Am I actually making some sort of influence around here? Maybe only to R10 heh heh. Thanks though man.
I mean it really honestly comes down to "I like it or I don't like it" when it comes to music. But for me it's more complicated then that. I've got my reasons for the music I listen to. It's not like the way the the majority of the world listens to music. Music is something special and I have a close bond with it. Like I said a little while ago about it almost being an organ.
R10 I've always thought you were pretty laid back though. Got your moments like everyone but you have a lot of interesting stuff to say, as does hellrat and the doc. Oh and branded. Ya know I can't start naming people because all the regs have a lot of good points to say about music heh heh.
hellrat, thanks for makin' me aware of The Crown. Really good band actually and totally spot on with the "simple yet aggressive" note. It's a different form of it though. A Day To Remember are pop punk with metal elements and The Crown are a thrash/death metal band. So the aggressive part of it is totally different. Plus The Crown has a lot better riffs then ADTR. But yea like I said 2 different ways to show simple yet aggressive and I like both.
Oh plus we don't need anymore "old skool d!cks" We have you and I'm positive you can hold the reigns for us all dude,........I mean that as a compliment haha.
One more thing. I know I've said my thoughts about music and I think it's fairly clear I'm not an elitist. But I kinda thought about it just now and in certain ways elitists do help music. Put it like this. An elitist/guitar player, sees all these new bands coming out that he fvckin' hates with a passion, and his thought is "that's not real metal." Let's use death metal as the genre example. So he goes out and creates a metal band that he thinks is "true metal." If this guy is a dedicated guitarist, what you get is a band that goes back to the roots of death metal. A band that makes people go "Oh my god these guys remind me of -insert old death metal band here-" Elitist's do it all the time. It reminds the younger generation what started it all.
So while I don't really agree with the elitist way of thought, in some ways it helps by giving us music that pays homage the origins of this fine genre we're all here to enjoy.
@cynic: An opinion has no factual significance so in theory yes you are correct in saying my opinion is worthless. However, on a forum in open discussion, an opinion matters. why? Because we're not discussing factual things, but our own views.
You not liking someone else's opinion doesn't make it worthless, only worthless to you.
I'm new to the site, I guess you'll just have to get used to the fact I won't be catering my posts to please anyone ;) have a good night lads. Cheers.
Senior Reviewer
@Well - I don't think your opinion is worthless, I was proving a point with sarcasm. (Jeez this is the second time in this thread, am I the only one who uses sarcasm?)
See normally opinions would matter just as you say. But if you (as you say) "don't really analyze what I write when I do it" then it's not an opinion, it's just gibberish mashed on the keyboard, mental noise, as good as viagra spam.
Lastly I don't mean to be aggressive, I just get pulled into these things. If you look at my posts on MU, 90% of them are praising the bands I come here to get news on.
Member
Thanks again R10. Always appreciated bro. I wish I had a job doing sh!t like this!! (deathbringer, hint hint!! haha)
Cynic, like I said to Mr.10 you got your moments but so does everyone. Sometimes aggression is needed to get points across. But I think most people on the internet think aggression is needed all the time, which isn't right. And that's why I'm here and not on another site, because people actually talk normal here.......well as normal as you crazy fvcks can get. =]
Member
Alright,Z. Hear what your saying about sites though dude,i can barely read Lambgoat and Blabbermouth comments without cringing! Most posters here know there metal,yourself included Mr. Z! Hey,btw,that band you like in your profile,Straight Line Stitch,put on a awesome performance in CT a few weeks back. I had never heard thier music,thought they performed pretty fvckin good! All the bands were pretty fvckin good though.
Member
Yea dude I feel you, it's just people talking sh!t on most all sites. And of course it happens here once in a while but for the most part I have good conversation with everyone here.
Yea I thought there live show was intense. Her vocals were a lot heavier live then on the album. She sounded like she was having sort of a hard time singing certain parts though. Like she'd run out of breath and start talk singing if you understand what I mean. Might have just been the heat though.
The only thing that actually kinda p***ed me off though was when they played Taste Of Ashes. That song has guest vocals from Jamey Jasta who was ON THE TOUR! with Kingdom Of Sorrow. But instead of having him come out and sing the song with her, they had 2 seperate guys come out and do it. And no offense to those dudes put the song blew dead dog because of that. I just really don't understand.......
FVCK! Ya know I met her after the show I should've asked why they didn't play the song with him. Lost opportunity......
Oh one more thing Mr.10. Did you get a chance to see All Shall Perish play? Because I ended up missing them in a pursuit for water. And if you did what were your thoughts?
Other then those things, I agree with you that every band put on a great show. Even Red Fang won me over. Great live band.
Member
The cool thing about metalheads...we know not to take ourselves seriously...
Of course, I thought about this: The guy who posted this slideshow/video on elitists didn't even consider himself a metalhead...Which means these debates are f***ing pointless. Why take time dissecting the opinion of a guy who isn't even a metalhead?
Member
Gore, This thread has gone way past that video for me. For a short time I honestly forgot there was a video on this page cause I'd immediately scroll down and get into the conversation. It's gonna suck when this thread dies.
What started as a sh**ty video turned into a really interesting thread.
Member
Yea Z,although im only slightly familar with All Shall Perish,i thought they put on a good show. They have a differant guitarist then when i last saw them,with thef Red Chord. That might have been about 4 years ago. Theyve come along way since imo. As far as vocals,im certainly one not to comment,since i cant sing myself. I noticed Straight Lines meet and greet line was pretty long,i had Red Fang sign a promo poster,thier line was pretty short. All in all Z,great show,just too fvckin hot when that sun popped out after the quick shower.
Member
I heard about the lineup change with ASP R10. I just recently got into them, but I like the last 2 cds they put out. I wish I hadn't missed them but all the other bands made up for it so it almost doesn't matter. Hopefully I'll see them at some point. But yea that line was long and slow for SLS, it took forever and waiting in the sun didn't help. I had wanted to meet Red Fang but never got to it. Shame on me.
Oh dude after the short amount of rain the sky just opened up and scorched everyone haha.
Who gives a hoot how long it takes someone to write a good metal tune vs a classical, country, or any other style of music? That sort of logic makes me want to scalp this idiot. Look at AC/DC. They're the generic classic rock/good time kick-a$$ group, and I doubt they take more than a few hours to write each tune. And ya know what? I love them. But maybe they take several months per tune and really put those open-d chords in the right places, we'll never know and that's the way it is. I can sort of see where people want to listen to something mentally stimulating, but IMO, the worst porn-grind band using a drum machine and recording on 8-track tapes would be more interesting than 99% of the pop crap out there. And if you are going strictly off of how long it took for an artist to write songs to judge off of, Hendrix and quite a lot of other classics suck.
Metal has no rules. It's just gotta be kick-a$$ and move you, or in the case of grindcore and brutal death, rip your face off and have you begging for more. I don't enjoy a lot of deathcore or mudvayne, but they're still a form of metal, it's just not the type of metal I'm into. Same goes for that power metal stuff, I honestly couldn't care less. But, as others have stated, it's my opinion. I love how new metal fans automatically assume the older the better. They go and say some BS about how early before Cold Lake Celtic Frost is the best, just after googling some old metal release from the 80's. Listen to what you like, and stop wanking over if it's elite or not. Respect all music, likewise with beer.
PS to this moron:
Lock Up's new album (if this tard has even heard of them), Necropolis Transparent, is awesome. Now there's some grind where the members take time and arrange/write sh1t that really pummels you in the face.
Member
i love how they think we cant accept that metal is changing!! we accept it but refuse to like the sh!tty suck a$$ bands who think they are bad a$$ but sound like toilet trash!! WE KNOW METAL IS CHANGING, THATS WHY WE LOOK FOR BANDS THAT ARE GOOD AND FLUSH THE CRAP BANDS STRAIGHT DOWN THE TOILET!!
listen to the new JFAC Gloom EP or TBDM's Ritual, it would do you poor bastards good to broaden your horizons a little. They've removed the majority of core elements from their music and have become straight up death metal bands for the most part.
But then again, bands with more than 10 fans internationally don't seem to get a lot of attention from people as pretentious as some of the metalheads on this site. :)
Member
So you are saying that the "core elements" have been removed from these newer bands (forgive me if I don't know all the acronyms) and they have become more like the pre-existing death metal bands? I suppose the "New Wave of Death Metal" is here to stay, because we all know that trends don't ever change, right? I follow the newer metal bands pretty damn closely, about as much as I follow the bands that have been around and paid their dues. Newer doesn't always mean better no more than older means worse. I won't listen to Design the Skyline any more than I'll put on Morbid Angel's new album. Suck remains suck.
@netromancer: Yes, that was my point.
I always find bands that put less repetitive chug chug breakdown bullsh** *I.E: The Faceless, TBDM, etc* in their songs to be much more appealing than bands like...say...I dunno...Emmure since people tend to use them as an example for untalented musicians.
I find it hard to believe how many people on this site bag on Born of Osiris and other progressive death metal bands though..are you out of your f***ing minds?? haha
Member
Good points netro. Adsf,it remains to be seen whether JFAC or TBDM will still be around in 10-15 years and whether youll discover the next "big thing" before then. Ive been around long enough to know what you rave about today probably isnt something youll be listening to 5 years from now. Trends come and go,theres almost a cycle involved. Some of the newer retro thrashers have led people to investigate some of the greats of 25 years ago,which isnt a bad thing. Why have TBDM dropped thier core elements? I actually like them,JFAC less so. Help me understand why this new wave of death metal is the way of the future.
Member
I know, all these differing opinions. It's crazy. Almost like a site dedicated to a genre of music. I hear more about how a band like Emmure sucks, Ie. infantile lyrics, single note chug riffs, than a band like Born of Osiris. I think that actually says something more of how they aren't automatically lumped in with the "flavor of the week". I've honestly never heard them so can't give an opinion. I will say the feaux "Cribs" video kind of turned me off. Hey, I might be wrong...I guess what I'm saying is; Don't automatically think you need to jump on the defensive about a band you like here. You might be surprised at how many folks might actually like them as well. And certainly don't lump all the posters and lurkers on this site into one category. We are a pretty diverse group. Even if we might come off a little close-minded to newer bands who think that a contract equals entitlement in the metal community. For me, I like what I like, others like what they like. No harm, no foul.
Well, I'm glad to see there's plenty of debate about my video...
I'd like to say that I didn't exactly properly convey my meaning in parts of the video because I rushed it and deleted a few slides by accident.
The video should have been about 2-3 minutes longer and written with more clarity.
About the underground/mainstream discussion, what I meant to say was:
Underground DOES exist, in a sense, but it is not the same as it was 20 years ago.
Twenty years ago, a lot of people may have liked 15-50 bands, whereas now the average person seems to list about 500 bands as groups they enjoy.
That would be thanks to social media. And likewise, many more underground bands are able to now garner thousands of fans via social networks, thanks to social networking and social media.
Whereas, back in the day, many underground bands would have only a small local following until they caught a break.
Sure, they may not be Lady Gaga mainstream if they have a facebook and twitter account, but they're certainly not unheard of if they've established themselves with some type of demo album and marketing.
(That would be beyond the time of "just starting" as I described in the video)
And before anyone mentions anything about my tastes in music. Yes, I enjoy Mudvayne's first album, as a previous poster pointed out.
I'm also a fan of bands like Opeth, Wintersun, et cetera. But only to an extent for the latter, as I'm not a huge fan of Death Metal vocals.
I still consider Opeth and Meshuggah two of the most talented bands in existence, but I sure hate plenty of the people who follow them.
Member
iAMVyt: As a musician who's been on the scene since the 80's I can tell you your little theory is flawed. With social networks you do get the opportunity to be heard more than ever before, but it doesn't really equate to anything. As you grow older and get hair on your balls you'll begin to realize that the world isn't always what it seems at first glance.
Member
Im not even sure if the author of this video is even old enough to know how things got done in the mid eighties. I honestly can remember when Metallica was underground,prior to signing to Elektra. Tape trading,magazines,word of mouth spread the word back then. I can rember the reading about Megadeth prior to them releasing Killing is my Business. I do miss the old way of getting sh** done.
Member
I'm so glad to see this thread hasn't died because I thought it was dead. So lets get too it shall we?
First off I've heard nothing of this new wave of death metal. Right now the scene is flooded with core bands. So what certain bands have done is slowly shift their sound. I still hear some core in a band like JFAC, but they've done a pretty good job going from full core, to a decent death metal band. And this is coming from someone who hated them like 3 years ago. The Black Dahlia Murder did a much better job though.
I haven't really heard anyone talk bad about Born Of Osiris either. Yea I've seen people say they don't like them but no one should just say they're bad. Those guys are doing something right for core in that band. If more bands expanded core like that, more people would like core.....any kind of core.
iAMVyt When I get a band together (whenever that happens......I'm praying it's soon) I'm counting on making most of my fans through sites like the good old metalunderground, or youtube and facebook <; Grrrrrr fb. The rest I hope to get through constantly playing shows and being a touring band like I want. I don't plan on making a whole lot of money through the sales of my actual music like it used to be. The internet changed things forever and we're either gonna have to work around that like bands have been doing or come up with something new. But yea I forgot about your video. This thread is for the people.
Oh and thanks Jackrum! *thumbs up*
...And to Cynic. Sure. Any time.
I'm quite a bit older than 14, but it's nice to see that people will resort to petty conjectures in order to belittle someone's opinion. Much as I suspect a live debate with you and various others would be.
Plenty of Ad Hominem to go around, I'm sure.
And good luck to anyone who is in a band, I hope you succeed!!!
Deign to watch the follow up, if you will...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXnWoyUn5uE
Member
Nah,Dream H,scene kids aint killing a god damned thing. They will eventually piss off and vanish,on to a differant trend. Good fvckin riddance to them! Metals survived a hell of alot more then some sissy boys wearing girly pants,apeing metal. Those cvnts Design the Skyline might be the most embarrassing display ive seen in quite some time. Those tossers will be on to the next fad shortly,judging by the sh** theyre recieving.
R10, they're killing the local music scene.
I'm in a band in Tulsa (yes, I know) and we play straight-up death metal.
Do you know annoying it is to play a show full of nothing but hardcore dancers and breakdowns?
Multicolored hair and emo bullsh** dominates our local music scene.
I'm not saying my band is amazing, but one thing I'm proud of - we play old-school metal. But we're being rejected by a population of scene kids that don't care about the musical quality.
I'm sure this is being repeated with countless other local bands.
Senior Reviewer
@iAMVyt - I was belittling the culture of assigning extra value to youtube diatribes, not you in particular. Your videos don't warrant a response any more than a comment in this thread - I would say less so given the sentiments expressed by all here on the arguments you gave.
@Cynic - I don't really see it as being bitter towards Metal Elitists. It's stated multiple times in the video and its description that this is merely an opinion, open to interpretation and debate.
And I'd say the video warranted about 285 comments on this site, as well as many others. I believe the video is listed on about 30 sites as of right now, for simple advertisement. You can Google it if you'd like.
It'd be easier for me to accept your retorts if they weren't repulsively condescending.
"Your videos don't warrant a response any more than a comment in this thread" - Mhm...
Member
""I don't really see it as being bitter towards Metal Elitists.""
so why make a video and blame metal elitists, when its the trendy bandwagon sheeple bands that are making metal look as if its in a bad state of life?!?! The bands are the ones who are giving the image not the elitists! the elitists are tired of scene bands who become the flavor of the week with their watered down, soup music making the rest of metal look bad!
""It'd be easier for me to accept your retorts if they weren't repulsively condescending.""
the same can be said for your video!!
Senior Reviewer
Ok that was slightly out of line, I apologize. But you have to admit, it's been repeated here that even people who would otherwise agree with anti-elitist ideas disregarded your video and arguments.
In any case you are falling for the logic of what my initial post was of course about - your video could be the featured item on CNN and it still wouldn't bring any more validity to the arguments. The video could have been blank, and simply the title of this post alone could have generated the comments - elitism and the current, obvious division in the metal community is a touchy subject for all involved.
Member
"And I'd say the video warranted about 285 comments on this site, as well as many others. I believe the video is listed on about 30 sites as of right now, for simple advertisement. You can Google it if you'd like."
If I'm not mistaken, most of them saying that you and your little Youtube video were so far off the mark as to be laughable. If you wanted to bring the metal community together, I suppose I should say
"Well done."
Almost all of the opinions I've read agree that this video was rediculous.
Member
Hey DreamHeater, what band are you in? I'm in the Tulsa area myself. (I got a little more info on my profile.)
R10: I don't know if Tulsa is a reflection of a larger trend or not, but in T-town, What DreamHeater said says some validity to it, but i think its part of a larger problem here. The "scene" bands are primarily a bunch of kids that learned to play guitar from rockband. They have a basic sense of rhythm, but little fretwork ability. The drummers learn a few blast tricks (if that) and they call themselves a band.
The problem starts when the promoters (in name only) book these bands for shows. These kids will bring a bunch of their friends and then when they've played their set, they pack up and leave - with their friends. That shows no support for the music scene. The promoter doesn't care, because he got his immediate satisfaction from the door charge. The 'old school' crowd gets turned off after awhile from these scenesters and stops coming because they're tired of dealing with the spinkicks and windmills, and more importantly they're tired of paying to see these young bands with questionable talent. That's at least what I've seen in Tulsa.
The Death/thrash/progressive/old school metal bands have their work cut out for them here, because the promoters are flooded with requests from these young bands that don't respect the larger metal community.
It makes it difficult to compete when the promoter is looking only at turnout and who can draw the larger crowd.
That's just my two cents.
DreamHeater, do you agree? I'd like to know your thoughts too.
Drum_Junkie, I agree with you on most parts.
Sadly, I'm one of those kids who got into music from Guitar Hero - I haven't played it in years now - and I do find myself leaving after I've played occasionally.
However, you're getting the motives wrong. The reason I've left concerts before they finished isn't because I don't support the music scene, it's (this is kind of a stupid reason, but if you went to one of our concerts, you'd understand) the hardcore dancers.
I'm a MOSHER. I like to MOSH. I don't like kung fu-ing the air. And the attitude at local concerts, or at least the ones we've gotten the chance to play at, is absolutely horrible. I can't stay and enjoy the music with the constant danger of being kicked in the face by some kid who thinks he's "br00tal."
After my comment, I'd understand if you were less interested in my band, but I play in The Scarlet Demise. We only have a few crappy quality demos up on Youtube, because we've only been together a few months - yes, we're one of the "young bands."
But we're a "young band" that's trying to make good music, not make fans.
Member
Ive been into metal quite a while now. I think things were much worse for the genre in the mid 90's . From grunge,nu metal,and the start of metalcore,it just wasnt a popupar thing to play standard heavy metal. Dio suffered sales wise at this time,as did Priest,Maiden,etc. I tend not to go to many deathcore shows,but i have seen some due to them being placed.on tours. Think the fad has a short shelf life,backlash is pretty big against this stuff. Hey, im all for some old school death metal
Member
R10: Thanks for putting it into perspective. I remember playing in a couple bands in 1994 - 1998, and in Oklahoma, there was pretty much one promoter pushing metal and most of his shows were a couple hours away in OKC. Everything else was DIY. The expansion of the internet really opened up communication in the 2000's. When I was able to get back into playing music in 2005, it was alot easier to find people putting on shows. The metal scene is bigger now than it was, but it's not as good as it could be here in Tulsa to DreamHeater's point.
DreamHeater: Checked out your four songs. Your music is not the kind I was referring to in my earlier comment.
There is variation to the music. The song structures aren't the typical blast/breakdown/blast/breakdown/chug/chug/puke format. I definitely like your mid tempo riffs. The upper range vocals aren't my thing, but that's just a matter of preference. You guys are also venturing above the 7th fret, unlike the chug/chug trendy bands I was aiming at. As long as you bring the energy to the stage, I'm cool with it. Henry Rollins had said once about seeing Black Flag before he joined them: "It's like they were trying to break themselves with the music." That's the bar that I set for judging a bands' live performance.
Many of the younger bands I've watched play at The Marquee, Dragons' Lair (now Reverb), and other clubs since closed, just seem to want to show off for their friends. Those are the ones I was referring to. You guys seem more serious than that. I'll keep tabs on your Reverbnation page for upcoming shows and check you out.
Are you Jake or Akshay? Good luck finding a bass player, they're hard to find around here. I feel ya. Me and the guys I'm currently jamming with are looking for a guitarist and vocalist willing to play a modern take on old school thrash and practice in Muskogee. No luck yet.
-Respect \m/
you sell music if your music is good
you don't sell music if your music sucks.
If you're selling thousands of records, your music is good to someone don't ya think?
Music is all opinions though, it's a given we're not all going to enjoy the same things.
But to say a band is untalented and doesn't make good music just because you don't like them? Naiive.
Member
asdf post #294: I refer you way up to my comment #53.
McDonald's sell millions of burgers and fries every year.
That doesn't make them nutritious. Just because it sells, doesn't make it good. If could be that popular music is popular because it is promoted to saturate the market. Tell a lie until people believe it: Play a song until people like it. Popularity has little to do with talent.
Many of the commentators on this thread know what they like and they know why they like it. Many have also given an honest listen to what they don't like and know exactly why they don't like it.
Uhh hmm, or maybe just possibly I buy mcdonalds because it's good....JUST MAYBE! if their food tasted like garbage billions of people wouldn't buy it. It might not be good to you, but it's good to other people. Anyway..
Let's make a comparison here. I understand that all of you should have some knowledge about the summer slaughter tour. Let's compare The Black Dahlia Murder and Six feet under, two death metal bands.
Having seen six feet under in concert I confidently say that chris barnes is horrible. It sounded like he was choking on a d*** the entire time. I mean their music was mundane in the first place, but I've never seen a venue so dead during a band hailed as death metal "legends". No one was moving. (By moving I do not mean hardcore dancing fa**otsh**. I mean literally everyone there but the handfull of people to see SFU were either standing there or sitting down waiting for them to get off stage).
There's a reason TBDM sell more records than SFU. Not because it's "what's in" now. TBDM have been around for 10 years now. They are not part of a fad. Their new album is not "deathcore".
The Black Dahlia Murder's talent simply exceeds that of Six feet Under's exponentially. Lyrically, musically, and from the stage presence perspective.
@ZMA: Here's an example: The millions of people who bought Justin Bieber's CD think it sounds good to them. He is talented to them. To Justin Biebers fans..he makes good music. He's a good singer to them. Do I like Justin Bieber? f*** NO, but music is subjective. Just because you don't like a band does not make them untalented. That's a naiive viewpoint and you need a reality check. Your opinions are not a majority. Nor are they solid facts. An opinion cannot be correct, because it is a viewpoint. A viewpoint has no factual validity.
In a sense you provided me with an excellent example with mcdonalds to compare to music. Steve likes McDonalds, Andrew doesn't. Andrew can tell Steve McDonalds tastes like garbage but Steve doesn't give a sh** cuz he's all about his big macs and mcflurries. To Steve, McDonalds is good. It's good food.
@Cynic: The St. Anger reference is totally illegitimate because no one knew that metallica was going to put out one of the worst albums in history. Same can be said about GNR's Chinese Democracy. invalid argument is invalid. You're trying too hard Cynic :)
#Discuss.
3..2..1...GO!
Senior Reviewer
"you sell music if your music is good
you don't sell music if your music sucks."
...9 posts later...
"music is subjective."
So.. if music is subjective then obviously it doesn't matter how many albums you sell. You do realize that you're now arguing the completely opposite point to the original?
"I've never seen a venue so dead during a band hailed as death metal "legends""
So you're saying being legends doesn't necessarily mean putting on a great show? Wow good thing you didn't equate part of being a legend (say like sales) to being 'good' in an earlier post else you'd be contradicting yourself here!
...listen dude, we get what you're saying. But bottom line being good has no relation to sales or popularity (you yourself even seem to be arguing this...)
Member
Its certainly a stretch calling Six Feet Under death metal legends. Other than Barnes,i couldnt name one other member of that band. I havent listened to a SFU album since A. West and T. Butler were in the band. That was a while ago.8-9 years. Barnes might be considered legendary because he fronted CC,but SFU is not legends. And really,what does being a death metal legend get you nowadays? Obituary and Deicide who have been at it for 20 years,made livings off thier music,still only play at 400- 600 capacity clubs. Sales and popularity in no way determine whether a band is good or not. Some music just is not supposed to have wide spread commercial acceptance. Cmon boys,lets take this one to 400 comments.
it actually makes a lot of sense cynic, to be quite honest with you.
Anyone can do what you're doing, which is basically just taking my posts out of context and arranging what they say in a matter to cater to your argument. Yes..attempt to make me look like a hypocrite and hope that no one will go up and read what I actually said! Of course! Somehow no one else you've debated with seems to have picked up this tactic of yours? Strange.
Let's avoid getting off the subject though, shall we? Let's get on to the task at hand.
The sentences "your music sells if it's good, it doesn't if it sucks" and the "subjectivity of music" actually make plenty of sense if you leave my posts in context, in fact. Bad music doesn't sell because not as many people like that music. Music is subjective, yes, because people have their own opinions and like what they like.
People buy music that sounds good to them, they don't buy music that doesn't sound good to them.
Let's say a majority of people buy...hmm..idk..a Queen CD. These people all like Queen. By not buying a Queen CD, person A is like f*** queen, I hate them. I don't like their music.
A band cannot be "bad" when they have 15,000$ in album sales. They can make bad music to you, or John Doe, or Mouhammad, but from a monetary and over-all economic standpoint, the chips are against you.
"Your music sells if it's good"[to others], and doesn't sell if it sucks"[to others].
Does this all make sense to you now or
Senior Reviewer
@R10 - According to a Nielsen SoundScan poll, SFU are the 4th best selling death metal act of all time... hard to believe but there you go.
@asdf - To be honest if you can't make your argument simple and coherent I don't know if I can be bothered. I'll try and head you off instead:
If you believe music is subjective then only the opinion of a single person can define whether something is good or bad, and only to them.
You could say "this album is a good/bad commercial product", or "is really popular/unpopular" etc. because they are quantifiable. But you can't draw any objective conclusions about the the actual artistic quality of the music because something is either subjective or objective.
Senior Reviewer
And just to make things clear, the two statements in post 294 draw objective conclusions about the quality of music based on how much it sells. This is a contradiction, and I haven't taken either 294 or your statement about music being subjective out of context.
Member
""A band cannot be "bad" when they have 15,000$ in album sales.""
$15,000 is peanuts in todays age, and record labels would drop bands with that small amount of $$ made!! If the band was unknown and completely underground, then maybe the $15,000 would be a lot of $$, but thats nothing at all in todays market!! Nice try thought!!
Member
asdf: If you reread my comment (#298) I said that their burgers and fries weren't nutricious. You may like the taste, but the dietary benefit is higly debatable. How would you compare McDonalds to your local family owned five star restaurant? Good is relative, isn't it?
You stated in #294:
"you sell music if your music is good
you don't sell music if your music sucks."
Your blanket statement does nothing to address the pivotal role marketing, public relations and social trend analysis has in the financial success of an artist. So are you saying that Jonass brothers are good? Justin B**ber? Lady Gaga? Katey Perry? Nickelback? Limp Bizkit? Really??
They sell much more than 99% of Metal artists, so they are better, right? Is that not your argument equating financial success with talent?
Member
R10: I'm not done yet.. hehe...
asdf: Additionally to your post #303.
You wrote:
"The Black Dahlia Murder's talent simply exceeds that of Six feet Under's exponentially. Lyrically, musically, and from the stage presence perspective."
In the next paragraph, you wrote:
"The millions of people who bought Justin Bieber's CD think it sounds good to them. He is talented to them. To Justin Biebers fans..he makes good music. He's a good singer to them. Do I like Justin Bieber? f*** NO, but music is subjective. Just because you don't like a band does not make them untalented."
You made the objective statement that TBDM are exponentially more talented than SFU, thereby presenting your opinion as fact. Then you claimed that talent is subjective in the next paragraph.
Talent *to a degree* can be quantified, based on the skills that one possesses. How those skills are used is not quantifiable, but possibly qualifiable. Someone could be untalented (possess few music or artistic skills) yet still be marketed heavily to the masses as the next big thing. In a hypothetical example: One says an 'artist' can sing, another says pitch correction.
You CANNOT equate financial success with musical quality i.e. "Good music sells, bad music does not" It is a flawed argument.
Founder, owner & programmer
Drum Junkie beat me to it: marketing, public relations and social trends are all important and the industry at large exerts forces on music sales that make sales alone a totally unreliable measure of anything. The music industry has often built up artists with an image (or even created the image too) with its massive marketing machine rather than just find talented ones, and this blows the whole argument out of the water.
Member
Yea,the 15 thou would hardly cover your cost of an initial pressing of your cd. For a yound band on the road in a van,if the sold 15 thou on cd sales,that would be pretty good. It would certainly keep them on the road. Im not sure where absf drew the 15 thousand figure from. Im sure he'll be back.
I guess I should've cleared that up, by 15k$ I meant in the first week of sales. TBDM's ritual sold 13k$ in its first week.
Six Feet Under's most recent album Death Rituals sold an exponentially lower 2,300 copies.
Because they f***ing suck. Idk how else to assert the fact that modern death metal bands are more talented than these pathetically sh**ty irrelevant death metal bands from the 80's. Why do you think Six Feet Under has only put out a cover album within the last 3 years as opposed to a full length?
Because no one would buy it.
I'm under the impression that there's quite a large clique on this site lol you all act like highschool girls. When someone like me who I guess you could consider an "outsider" simply because I think the majority of 80's death metal sucks horsecock you all jump over me.
I mean, I like the attention and everything and I certainly enjoy the debate, but idk how it doesn't bother you guys repeating the same argument someone else made 10 posts prior to yours.
Drum Junkie's points made sense, I really didn't see the point of you all repeating the same thing..lol.
I think the point we've all been truly missing is yes, elitists are weakening the heavy metal genre by causing divisions and self created genre barriers.
I've never made a habit out of using the suffix "-core" to describe a band, to me: It's metal or it's not. (I'm assuming this ought to get cynic back in the discussion since he apparently can't stand the new wave of metal ;))
All these young kids are keeping metal alive. What are the 40 year old old school prats doing? Absolutely nothing! Clinging to the memory of a majority of bands that don't even put music out anymore.
Yes, Warbringer is a NWOTM band. They were a breath of fresh air definitely because metal has become over saturated with all these new death metal bands(oops I called "core" bands metal again, someone's gonna get p***ed!). But then every band after them in the NWOTM sounds exactly like them. At least with death metal there's variety in vocal patterns, more tempo changes, etc.
Cannibal Corpse's new album sucked harder than a Thai Hooker.
To the Elitists: You're a minority in the world of metal now. The ideology behind being an elitist is self-defeating in the respect to metal in general. Your principals will cease to exist soon enough. Deal with it. I'm going back to Lambgoat, you guys don't even post relevant news. Lambgoat and Metalsucks report everything days even weeks before you guys do.
Get fvcked Get fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvckedGet fvcked
Member
15 grand isn't going to facilitate much of a tour AT ALL! You're still gonna have to sell merch for gas money. adsf is tryin to blow smoke up someones a$$.
@Cynic: He's got ya there!!! All these years you've been full if $hit and just taking people's posts out of context. BTW, when can we look forward to your next peice?
Member
Adsf,people who throw around the word exponentially tend not to also use "horsecock","fvck you all", fa**ot,etc. in thier posts,or everyday way of speaking. Heading back over to Lambgoat for some real deep discussion and debate eh? Yea,ok,"first post" ,"van flip",etc. Ok,gotchya.
Member
he talks about others acting like high school girls and then pust get fvcked that many times. Also this one really makes his post completely contradictory abou the point he is trying to make about elitists:
""I think the point we've all been truly missing is yes, elitists are weakening the heavy metal genre by causing divisions and self created genre barriers.""
HHMMMM, ISNT THAT EXACTLY WHAT THE SCENE KIDS THAT LISTEN TO THE BANDS HE DOES ARE DOING TOO?!?! Seriously, before making an a$$ of yourself with self absorbed statements like that, make sure what you post has some kind of value and not mirror what the trendy, brain dead sheeple scen kids are doing as well!!
Newcomer asdf: 1
Bearded 40 year olds of MU: 0
No one seemed to comment on the fact that MU is a very irrelevant newssite in general, is that because it's true, and the "senior writers" and "reviewers" that comment on this thread acknowledge that they are not capable of reporting news on time.
This is more or less just a site for pretentious dudes to talk about the "glory days" that are long gone.
Site flip. No care ever.
Member
I take it your leaving us then. Hopefully some of your "NWODM" bands enjoy long profitable careers,and you are still listening to them in your 40's. Then you can talk of the glory days of OceanoTBDM,etc. Im thinking you'll will have long forgotten them in 5 to 10 years. Time will tell
Member
Why should we call this site irrelevant?? we come here to avoid being oversaturated by douchey, scene kids and thier retarded close minded barriers they put up about bands they dislike!! we can have good conversations here and not worry about some lame a$$ punk kid to come in and get all b1tchy about someone who doesnt like the sh1tty trendy bandwagon bands they like, plain and simple!!! we prefer to have good music with some kind of value to it and not a trendy flavor of the week style pile of donkey sh1t band who feel image above music is the way to go about it. that seems to be the "in thing" these days!!
Branded, I guess you can't read. I called this site irrelevant. If you can find anywhere in my post where I said "you guys should call this site irrelevant" I'll give you a nice cookie for you dude!
Not sure how TBDM is flavor of the week if they've been around for 10 years now lol. Do some research dude, get out from under that rock!
Member
i read it correctly you say its irrelevant but yet you are still here flapping your d!cksuckers for what reason?? also im not under any fkn rock, i listen to all kinds of music, from jazz, to blues, to classical, to techno, to thrash metal (which is the best), just not trendy sheeple dog sh1t bands like you listed. you claim that we are close minded yet you say certain bands suck for your prefered reasons as we say other bands suck for our prefered reasons. its all about choices, and we choose to sh1t on the bands that we do because we may not like their sound, style, lack of muscianship, lame a$$ images, etc.
Member
asdf:
First off, I'm not 40 - I'm 34.
Secondly, I can't even grow a full beard. Yeah, you heard me.. I'm in my thirties and can't grow a beard. Didn't see that commin didya now! :)
Irrelevant? Maybe you don't understand MU. The purpose of Metalunderground is not to be the fastest reporting metal news site.
From the about us section that you may not have read:
"With a mission to help readers discover new metal music, Metalunderground.com has been faithfully serving mainstream and underground metal news since early 2001. In addition to comprehensive metal news coverage, the site also features reviews, interviews, band info, live concert reports, photos, and more, updated daily by a dedicated staff of die-hard metalheads.
....
While not always at the forefront of our daily activities, one of our primary goals is and always has been to help people discover new metal bands and music - music that fits their tastes and underground bands they may never have heard of otherwise. As other developments continue, we plan to offer more means of finding new bands to quench your thirst for metal!"
They may not be the fastest at reporting on well known signed acts. But as far as timely reporting of new, unsigned, obscure of otherwise unknown metal bands REGARDLESS OF METAL SUBGENRE, The Mighty METAL UNDERGROUND is second to none for delivering news on THOSE bands.
I'm all for finding new music, and I don't give a rats a$$ if its thrash, speed, classic, progressive, punk, old school, new school, preschool, death, deathcore, hardcore, softcore, justrightcore, applecore, whatever. If I like it, I like it. Big deal what it's fvcking called. That said, NO OTHER site is as dedicated to their purpose as the gracious Mofos that staff this site.
This site is more relevant for me than any other. I could honestly give two sh!ts in a twohole sh!thouse what's relevant to you.
So, if you don't like the content on the site or our comments, then that is your loss, I guess. If you don't want to at least respect its purpose, then kindly GTFO.
Allow me to rescore things for you.
cleanshaven 34 yr old of MU: 1
come and goner asdf: 0
Later, "brah"... I'm through with you, too.
Member
Who knows asdf,TBDM has changed thier style quite a bit since i first saw them on 05 Ozzfest. I actually like thier last three records,when i first heard them,i heard core elememts plus a Carcass sound. They have a ways to go before they join the likes of Obituary,Deicide,Cannibal Corpse who have sold between 350 thou and 550 thousand albums in thier careers. Its allowed them to make music thier full time jobs for the most part. You may hate them,but you should respect them for how they got sh** done
Moral of the story:
There's no such thing as "true metal". It's all just music. This is a newer generation of metal, influenced by changing styles and the shifts of time, as all music is subject to. If you don't like it, f*** right off! haha
suck it branded lololol you're another one who acts hard over the internet because he's illegitimate in real life! If someone came up to you and p***ed on your shoes you'd stand there and look at the floor like a prison bottom b**** rather than do anything! toss my f***in salad you melvin! haha
Member
not trying to be "hard" as you say. just pointing out that you calim this site is irrelevant yet you stay here trying to prove a point that is completely pointless. also, come up with something way better than that, you really do make yourself look pre-school with your lame a$$ weak comebacks!!!
Member
LOL, I cant believe this thread is still going. @Branded- In post 330, you pretty much summed up most people on this site when you said ' their retarded close minded barriers they put up about bands they dislike". Thats 95% of dudes on here, isnt it?
If anything, its those scene kids who are open minded, to any kind of metal or rock. And/or mixing the two.
PS-asdf- you had a few good points, until you decided to put "get fvcked" about 100 times. Grow up, or go back to school little boy
Senior Reviewer
Ok let me sum things up:
-asdf is butthurt we don't like what he does.
-He tries to make an argument that because the bands he likes sell more, they're better
-Everyone goes apesh** pointing out the obvious flaws in that
-Instead of backtracking he ignores all the posts and starts throwing ad hominems, strawmans and obscenities around like a child
...yeah you've moved into the realm of troll so don't expect serious responses from me any more. Too bad.
Member
KDOGG: is that why they (scene kids) leave when the scene bands are done playing their sets at local shows and even major shows? whether or not we admit we are all closed minded about things in the metal world. however, he tried his best to prove a point by saying x amount of $$ means a band is good and those that dont sell x amount are sh!t. if he really thinks that then he is delirious. ive sat through so many bands (of all genres) at local shows to know that the scene kids are a joke with their close minded outlook on bands that dont fit the genre they like.
Founder, owner & programmer
Yeah, that doesn't ring true that scene kids are truly more open minded. They're more prone to follow the latest trends, but that's just 1 thing and excludes dozens of other subgenres of music they will never have the chance to discover while staying within those circles. Sounds like an attempt at a cheap jab at the elitists to me.
Member
asdf, you're trying too hard to troll.
But just in case you're serious...
I'm 18, not 40. This website is an amazing news source for people who like bands that are a bit less popular than normal.
It's not about elitism - but where else are you going to find an article about the kinds of bands that are out of the public eye?
I like popular music. But I also like unpopular music. I can go wherever the hell I want to find out when Metallica or Bring Me the Horizon's new album comes out - but where else am I going to find news on bands like, say, Woods of Ypres or Oh, Sleeper?
You're right about all the new bands being "just music" - but the fact is, it really is "just music" as of now. There's no history - I'm not going to pretend to have been around in the 80's, and I won't act like I'm there - and there's no sense of community.
But the attitude surrounding the group of people who listen to older or obscure bands, is incredible.
I don't know about you, but it's much more fun to me to talk with friends about the challenges surrounding the recording of Tomb of the Mutilated than it is to talk about Andy Six jumping off a stage and breaking his ribs.
This new music is shallow. It's become too easy for bands to make a name for themselves just because of looks or attitude - I like the new, popular stuff. But when compared to bands that actually had to work to get where they are - even if it isn't very far - there's just no respect involved for me.
That's my speech. Sorry for writing a book.
Member
Excellant commentary,Dream H. There is alot of great new bands. For every Woods of Ypres,how many copycat crap scene bands are there? There just seems to be a glut of crap,difficult to sift through them all. I love discovering new,origional bands,keeps my faith in metal up. Woods of Ypres are one of those newer bands i really like. You got the right idea young man!
Member
^exactly why I farted on the fvckin goofy twit...
some good people let that fvck get to ya...like the author of the shoddy vid, this kooky imbecile ain't worth the time of day
poor gapers mamas didn't pay enough attention to em...schade
For such rejects, ANY attention is better than none ya know
NP---Lost to Apathy (Where Death is Most ALIVE)---Dark Tranquility Live in Milano
@netromancer: now now, I understand now that you all on MU like to back up your buttbuddy cynic, no need to get upset that I called him out!
Keep on giving me sh** to talk about you bunch of derps, I'd have to be banned in order to make me leave.
@hellrat: "that's why I farted on him". You're quite intelligent. Brain flip? I'm sure that *I'm* the one who needs parental attention when you're the one virtually farting on kids over the internet. Get Aids. Life flip
Like...you people aren't even funny when you try to come at me over the internetz.
Your jokes are as funny as toilet bowls. Get it? Toilet bowls! Ha ha! Toilet bowls! Get it? Ha ha! Because you make poopies and weewees in there! Toilet bowls! Ha ha! Get it? Toilet bowls! Where you make poopies and weewees! Ha ha! Toilet bowls! Ha ha!
Member
nah buddy, I'd rather fart on ya in person...but until you pony up for a real live groundhoggin, what can I tell ya? I sure as hell ain't gonna hunt your punk azz down, you come to me me if ya want some of these goods here...heck, ya might even get more that ya bargained for :)
I don't know a damned thing about this 'intelligence' yous sprayin about. Pray tell, Mister...and please, concisely define that there notion. Hillbilly like me don't know nothin nohow anyway!
Come on now savvy son, do an old dog a favor, and learn me some new tricks...I's afeared I'm outta date, Bo-Boi
Tell me somethin I ain't heard yet...maybe a little secret yer otherwise negligent mama told ya? I reckon that might just be a little bit o' some good fodder eh?
:)
Member
the troll who thinks the site is irrelevant is still here trying to seem relevant in a thread where his posts failed misreably and thinks he still has some kind of viable reason for being here. he just enjoys flappin his ball licker online to seem like someone who has something important and interesting to say!!
Member
I know a thing or two about toilet bowls and I'll tell ya this much; you haven't lived until you've stood in one and smeared feces all over your naked body while you make pouting faces into the mirror. Feces I tell ya! Feces. Haha!
I'd put down good money to watch this a$$hat attempt a battle of wits with either Cynic, Netro OR HR. On any topic he chooses.
@ Cynic: LOFL.
Anyone who cries over the internet should be forced to hang out with branded's fat sweaty a$$ for a week straight(assuming that's him in his avatar picture).
Like doodz u totes got me, I relly lyk dis syt thts y i kep cmng bak.
It never occured to any of you that f***ing with a bunch of cliquey "metalheads" might just be my source of entertainment since I'm not doing anything at the moment?
People like me do this site a great favor, look at how much more attention this thread has gotten, imagine how many people have now read the thread but for one reason or another have never commented.
I stopped arguing my points because you're all so f***ing dumb it made no sense anymore since no one is going to see my opinion for what it is lol.
I have to give this site credit though, at least their all star reviewers don't review sh** they know they're going to hate. That's one thing that has always p***ed me off about other websites.
....then again if a band has more than a cult following on this site you guys probably don't like them anyway! Tool fa**ots!
This is the internet, I don't value anyone's opinions enough to get mad, annoyed, etc. Let people like Cynic think they're the man because they have all the time in the world to craft a good argument, I'd wreck him in a debate if he was standing right in front of me. His replies aren't immediate because he sits at his computer musing over a way to reply that makes him sound clever whilst looking up words in his online thesaurus to make his vocabulary seem more intricate than it really is. He's a faker, and you guys all suck his nuts like he's the greatest thing since branded's mother's twat.
Hilarity ensues. Let's continue?
Founder, owner & programmer
Maybe his replies aren't immediate because he's in New Zealand. You give yourself way too much credit and will need to find a new hobby if you just come here to troll. Having a discussion or argument is one thing, but your comments certainly are not bringing any value or attention like you seem to think they are.
Member
""I stopped arguing my points because you're all so f***ing dumb it made no sense anymore since no one is going to see my opinion for what it is lol.""
we saw your opinion and then you went pre school because some people disagreed with you. and yet you are still here doing your best to show how un-intelligent you are with your kindergarten posts. and i dont really agree with cynic on hardly anything as he has done the same to me as he did you. become a member and hang out and get to know us and you'll see that we are open minded, but close minded to lame a$$ pre-school b1tches who have to get all hostile when someone disagrees with their opinions!! but i dont see that happening as you would actually see how your posts about us being close mided would be null and void!!
Member
asdf:
What a shame. I actually enjoyed taking part in the thoughtful discussion with you earlier, and though I disagreed, I still respected your point of view until about post #322.
But if you find more fullfillment in being the troll, go right ahead. Hope you can review these comments when you've matured a bit more and still have respect for yourself.
happy trolling...
Member
For the record I have never sucked Cynic's nuts (not that there's anything wrong with that). If i'm not mistaken the owner of the site just gave you a stern warning asdf, so heed the warning or you might not have the choice to hang around here. People are actually giving you props for your original argument, but I doubt you see that. This confirms my estimation of your age OR your intellect. 13... And that may be too generous.
Senior Reviewer
Lol - all I have to say is I come here to discuss metal not make friends (though yeah I've made tons). I don't care what people think of me or troll insults or whatever (go ahead), I care about things like are elitists killing heavy metal and when the new Manilla Road album will get a cd release.
Though I do always find it funny when people imagine things about me from out of thin air - Here's a good example: Did you know that for all the posts in this thread, I haven't said anything positive or negative against elitists, or anything negative about bands elitists generally don't like? I said 'quagmire of deathcore bands' but that was intentionally vague as to reference the over-population of the scene.
...but I bet you imagined every one of my posts as a link to an animation of Jonathan Davis going up in flames in a pyre of emos or something, right?
Member
Im just f***ing with you cynic! As I know from various arguments we differ in opinion. I don't hate you for your opinion. But heres the real question. Why is it no matter what we are disscussing or any thread, it always resorts back to korn? Yes, korn is in my name. Yes korn is the reason I got into metal and/or rock. But that has nothing to do with any disscussion as of late. Its a weak comeback. I listen to thousands of bands in all types of music or genres.
Member
Ah shucks, the fodder has petered out...fvckin pvssies!
Well, let us take this opportunity to discuss the brew...and yes, ELITISM definitely applies thusly (as it does in every aspect of life...we know what's good and what ain't, pretenders will ALWAYS get the fvcking bullsh!t kicked out of em)
Anyway, let's start with the advanced principle of double fermentation: doppelbocks...excellent fvckin sh!t ya know!
I would like to hear about the readers' experience with imbibing, and/or brewing the afore-mentioned Doppels
When my Stag Skull brewery commences this winter, the first priority will be evolving the 'Ironator' Doppel...after which, we will start work on the 'Metal Pils'
Thoughts?
Now Drinking---Celebrator---Ayinger aus Bayern
Member
I preferred the Trippel to the dopple myself. My favorite is a little brew I've perfected that is a little sweeter than an Arrogant Bastard and about 2% more powerful. I'll have to share a Devils Speedball recipe with ya one of these days. That sh!t will fvck you up.
Member
DJ: Yep, it's a porter with a pound of espresso beans in the recipe. You don't even realize your drunk until it's too late. Vicious brew that Devils Speedball. Buddy of mine drank a sixer of it, blacked out, woke up the next morning to find out he was walkin around the pool in the nude cursing his in-laws while they looked on in horror. That's when we named it Devils Speedball. :D
Member
Fvck Greed sounds good! Im usually safe from blackouts beer wise,give me some Canadian whiskey and all bets off. I stick to what i can handle,right now i just picked up a 12 of Harpoon/October Fest. Good stuff,Boston brewed. Bracing for that b**** Irene to wallop Atlantic Coast and New England. So glad i got this weekend off! NP: Motorhead/ R.A.M.O.N.E.S
Member
^lol
Bud, BL, Coors all taste like p!ss water to me. Haven't tried Blue Moon. Heard it has an 'orange-y' flavor.
As far as mainstream beer goes, I'm more of a Corona guy. The smaller (homemade) breweries seem to put more care into the flavor. Maybe I'm "elitist" about beers.....
....aaannnnd it comes full circle. :)
Member
Jesus this thread just left the station without me lol.
Drummer J, yea you're right I should've made that 300 post epic. Oh well.
ALRIGHT!!......... asdf, You're an idiot. And I promise you I'd have no problem telling you that straight to your face. Drum_Junkie literally made the perfect point back on post 298 and yet this argument continued and was trolled and trolled and trolled. Mcdonalds are awesome. I love the way their food tastes. The millions of fat a$$holes around the US and the rest of the world will agree also. Most of those fat a$$holes are gonna die from eating their food. Because it's unbelievably unhealthy for you. It's like drinking and smoking. Millions of people around the world do it. But it's going to kill you eventually if you keep doing it.
You don't have to like Six Feet Under, but you should respect them for what guys like Barnes did for death metal. I mean hell I don't even like Six Feet Under, and I hate Barnes vocals. But I got respect for him. There are a lot of reasons for why they only sold that number of albums. They aren't promoted nearly as much as people like Lady Gaga and Bieber. Because death metal isn't pop music. Pop is called pop for a reason. It's popular!! It doesn't matter if it's good, bad, decent, the best thing ever, or the worst piece of sh!t ever played. It'll get popular because they bombard you with it on TV and radio and over the internet. If they did that with more metals bands maybe guys like Barnes would be playing sold out shows at Madison Square Garden like maybe Gaga would. That doesn't mean his music is bad.
The music scene is also flooded with metal bands. Any metal bands not just core bands. It's not like it used to be back in the day. If Metallica had just started now, maybe they wouldn't be as big because they wouldn't even be able to get passed that flooded market of thrash bands just like them.
I stopped completely reading the posts after a certain point but I guess I'll say this and leave it at that (partly cause I gotta go out heh heh)........The universe or whatever god you might believe in gave us the gift of music. To me one of the greatest gifts besides life itself. It'll always bring people together.......but it'll always push people apart. I think people need to be more open minded and embrace all types of music.
Mad respect for all the regulars in this thread. It's gonna suck when this thread dies in a few days cause it's getting close.
I'm just a poet with incredible rhythm.
Words arranged will let you know he has incredible in 'em. - I Love Music -
Member
You know what...I'm not even gonna read the sh** I missed. I tried. I'd add some
iAMVyt, I can't believe you actually commented here. Just read my comments from before for my point. And you may be getting a fair amount of attention for the video you posted, but remember something: Glenn Beck and Anne Coulter get attention too. Doesn't mean they're f***ing right. Jerry Springer stayed on the air for as long as he did because he understood that 1. He couldn't be Oprah and 2. You can exploit n*ggers and white trash for money.
asdf...God you're stupid. So lets take metal out of the equation for a better example. Drake and Lil Wayne sell a lot of albums...the niggas can't even f***ing rap. A lot of -core bands are selling right now, but most -core bands are sh**.
McDonald's sells the most burgers because they're cheap, not because they're good. If Fuddrucker's and Five Guys sold their burgers for a f***ing dollar, I bet you'd buy their sh** before you'd buy McDonald's. Labels just sell stupid because you can f***ing mass produce stupid.
Now think back to the 80s. Glam Metal was the trend that all the young kids got into. Where is a majority of Glam Metal artists now? Definitely not relevant except to those who remember them when they were trendy.
Now the 90s. Nu Metal was on the rise. Korn, Limp Bizkit, and a whole list of bands that most of us are old enough to remember. The only reason I even still know some of their names is because I grew up when they got airplay. But where are most of these bands now? Releasing new material trying to remain relevant...They're gonna fade into obscurity like Glam did.
...Now you want to tell me that these scene kids are here to stay? They sell now...wait til we get well into the next decade, when their fanbase has to grow up, cut the fagcrops, give the skinny jeans back to their sisters and get grownup jobs...And tell me which bands stood the tests of time? The underground...
Member
Yea Mr.10 I read most of the posts between him, Cynic and DJ. But thanks. People are leaving of laying low at home for the next 2 days around here. People were lining up around the corner to get gas whenever I passed a gas station the past 12 hours. I hope it's not as bad as I've been made to believe. I guess I'll find out on Sunday.
You made awesome logical points DJ. That seemed like a good conversation up to a point.
PPTF, I've never heard it all the way through but I got mad respect for all their albums. Even the ones without Dio or Ozzy. Honestly I'm more of a Dio era Sabbath fan. I've been on this thread too long to stop now even though it's gonna be over soon heh heh.
Member
blind, that speedball concoction sounds fvcking sinister...there's a swiss (ya I know!) brew you might try if you ever come across it: La Biere du Diable...pure fvcking evil at 13%
I like some of the Belgian Tripels quite well, there is also a Abbey Rochefort Quadrupel I would really like to try
I do understand KDoggs sentiments as well...sometimes ya just want a few of a nice cheap p!ss lager, and the P!ss of the Rockies (yellowjackets, not silver bullets!) hold a dear place in my beer lover's heart :)
DJ, there was an old time sheep hunter from Alberta that used to come down to hunt Desert Bighorn in Arizona every winter for a while, and his favorite beer in the whole world was Corona....except he called it CoronO Beer...we still love to have a decent proportion of Corono beer in sheep camp every year, which we drink in ol' Jims honor...nothin like an ice cold Corono beer with a slice of fresh lime on a hot day in the beautiful AZ desert!
I would love nothing better than to have all my brothers and sisters on here drop in for a Stag Skull sampler someday....better wait for me to experiment a bit and get the kinks ironed out, first few batches could be frikken nasty! :)
Come on folks, don't fergit the beer! \m/
Former Contributor
HR - Are you also a good angler? I went fishing at the Potholes Reservoir the other day and caught this monster large mouth bass...then the damn thing broke my line and took my hook and sinker. Usually I only get these small trout. If you fish, what do you use for bait and lures?
Member
10-4 'Bringer, my mistake...I'll do my very best in the future to make my comments brief, concise, and ALWAYS on topic...sounds pretty dull and kinda boring, but you're the Captain brother! :)
Sonic, I guide trout flyfishers every summer, and our general approach is dry flies on top...we use whatever they seem to be hungry for. It varies widely by region and time of year...I'll tell ya, there's nothin like watchin a big bruiser make a bee-line for your presentation and WHOMP! just awesome...anyway, I couldn't tell ya the first thing about bass fishin, as my experience is very limited, and wasn't entirely successful :) But I certainly hope you get another great hook up with a big bucketmouth, and can bring him on in...I wonder if he broke ya off on structure (if a fish wraps ya around anything solid, you're done for!)...you might also replace your spool every so often, as monofiliment is highly suceptible to sun rot...exposure can reduce a respective line's test by half in very little time...Good Luck brother! \m/
Yessir Big R, a fine tune indeed, but the one you were jammin is my all-time favorite Hank II tune...excellent choice! Ya, I remember the old penthouse forums in that little booklet back in the day, but I'm not really sure what these forums are you guys are talkin about...is it like a blog, or facefvck, or a twitter?
Sounds kinda fishy to me, and not in the right way... No thanks man! :)
Member
Nah HR,none of that facefvck,twitter crap. Fvckin hear ya thier dude! Click on to forums at the top of this site under the banner. Hell ,your old school wisdom would be appreciated on them forums. Fvck,start a old school country thread or one about home brews! Hell,id comment. And Irene? She's gonna make folks lifes miserable on the eastern seaboard! Np: George Jones/ He Stopped Lovin Her Today! Nd: Newcastle Brown Ale!!!
Member
Dear fvcking Christ....I just looked at your profile Sonic, and realized you are not a 'brother' at all! Profound apologies, Vicki...most embarrassing, damn... sorry indeed! Anyway, best of luck with the fishin!
Ok R, I'll check it out sometime soon...gotta git right now, as it just stopped raining, and there's big bucks and bulls to keep track of....off to the high country!
On Topic for 'Bringer...yes I am elitist when it comes to most things in general, but I will ALWAYS give ANYthing fair trial...if it don't measure up, well... :)
I am also surprisingly tolerant of 'mediocrity', as long as such doesn't try to claim to be other than it is NOT
a lot of the bullsh!t being advertised as METAL these days just simply ISN'T...no big deal, just quit pretending...quite simple
OK, I'm outta here, see y'all soon!
NP---Good as Gone---Little Big Town
Member
DJ, no prob dude. Yea that b!tch just kept getting back up haha.
WOLF, Bob Barker's about to come out and give me an 87 LeBaron heh heh.
hellrat, I know DB said keep on topic and I will I just wanna keep you updated since Irene is about to hit Long Island in a few hours. I heard at least 6 people have died so far. Hasn't started raining hard yet but it'll be soon. Wish me luck and wish me not dead please lol.
Was a pleasure talkin' with all y'all if I happen to not be alive by Monday lol. I'm keepin' positive it won't be that bad though.
Ok back on topic real quick. I just can't be an elitist. I love music too much to be locked into only 1 sound. I'll listen to some Bob Marley then go listen to The Human Abstract, then old Cannibal Corpse, then new Cannibal Corpse, then Skrillex and Tech N9ne and Pink Floyd and etc. Both elitists and non elitists bring good things to the table but they'll always arguing. Sucks. <;- Basically repeating what's been said a lot in this awesome thread lol.
Member
Goddamn that was miserable! Y'alls damned hurricanes still manage to screw up our weather patterns all the way out here...just bailed off the mountain in a frikken torrential downpour that popped over the ridgeline from the east (not normal), and was dodgin heavy slurry and rockslides after I was in the truck comin down the canyon
Zman, thanks for the update brother! You'll come through it just fine man... but I'll tell ya, if you accept ol Bob's prize in that hideous car, I'll have to hunt ya down and put ya out of yer own misery! :)
Back to topic (I swear 'Bringer is gonna fire my azz): had ol Alan Jackson on the stereo comin down off the hill, and the lyrics of one song could be applied to this discussion...
"...and so ya know, that's how it goes, you just don't stick your nose into somethin that you don't understand
So tell me, who's cheatin who? And whose bein' used? And who don't even care anymore? Who ain't doin right by someone tonight, and who's car is parked next door?..."
I know who's car it is...it's them dang non-elitist pseudo-metaller's '87 Le Baron! OK now soldiers, lock and load! :)
Seriously now, I would please like to hear that you all are alright once this thing has passed...hang in there guys and gals!
NP---Rain---The Cult
Member
And it's down to the wire...
Let's recap the glory of the past 414 posts...
Annndddd go:
-Started off defining elitism
-Korn vs. Cannibal Corpse
-SVENDORRIAN vs. Other elitists
-Khalis Wrath vs. BrandedCFH420
-Lion bars
-ZMA gives R10 a revelation
-Return to topic
-iAMVyt weighs in, realizes he's a lightweigh, leaves.
-Talent vs. $ discussion turns to trolling
-The arrival of new member DreamHeater
-BEER!
-DB reels us back in before Irene blows us away.
A few more hours and this ones done.
Good thread, good points, funny sh!t, good times. :-)
Member
Shoot, I still think if we'd been allowed to continue on the Brew (is Elitism killing Beer? you know: "my pretentious Ale is WAY better than your blue collar P!ss!"), we would have added couple o' hunderd more to the talley....alas!
Zman, glad you're a-ok brother....hope the rest of the Atlantic METAL Front came through unscathed as well \m/
DJ, that recap is fvcking brilliant...thanks for the quality chuckles man :)
this one's for you:
NP---Okie from Muskogee---the Mighty Merle
Member
Yea,gotta kick out out Drummer J's description of the thread. Would need a serious on topic controversy at this point to continue this thread im afraid. Unless asdf rears his ugly head again... A lot of twists and turns,im getting sick of having to scroll down a million miles to read the latest on this one. NP:Mike Ness/ Six More Miles and old Hank Sr number i believe.
To minimize comment spam/abuse, you cannot post comments on articles over a month old. Please check the sidebar to the right or the related band pages for recent related news articles.
Visited iAMVyt's YouTube channel, found that he enjoys Mudvayne, thus nullifying his opinion.