"some music was meant to stay underground..."

Cauldron Frontman Speaks Out Against Korn and Nu-Metal

Photo of Korn

Band Photo: Korn (?)

Lane Soderberg of Noise Creep recently interviewed Jason Decay, frontman of Canadian traditional heavy metal band, Cauldron. In this interview, Jason goes on record about his hatred for nu-metal in its heyday and how the cyclical nature of musical trends directly influenced the rise of Cauldron.

"My backlash for that shit started when Korn started ruining the "Power 30" (Much Music's metal video show) back when I was 14," says Jason, "And it ended when I simply stopped caring about hating it anymore. I forget when that was. Like anything, it comes and goes and it will be back again someday to ruin something else, just like bands like us are currently ruining it (for nu-metal)."

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138 Comments on "Cauldron Frontman Says They're Ruining Nu-Metal"

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Pursuit_Of_Vikings's avatar

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1. Pursuit_Of_Vikings writes:

Nu what?

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 11:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
returntheknife's avatar

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2. returntheknife writes:

Exactly

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 11:06 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
3. lee55 writes:

Cauldron, I think your a pretty insignificant band in the world of music to be putting down a band that has managed to put out platinum albums for over 15 years now.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 11:57 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
4. begforme4484 writes:

Well said lee55.

I've never heard of Cauldron, so way to be successful guys.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 12:15 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Valley_of_the_Dead's avatar

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5. Valley_of_the_Dead writes:

Agreed lee55!

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 12:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
6. ZT* writes:

I love korn.

Oh noos, eye'm know longer uh tr00....oh well.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 12:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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7. Blindgreed1 writes:

I've never heard of them before either, but I will go check them out now. Anyone willing to cause a rift in the music scene is okay in my book.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 12:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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8. Red writes:

Dude, I checked it out and it's f***ing gay, seriously gay. f*** man it's as bad as it can get.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 12:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
bananaterracottapie1's avatar

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Right......


I hate the present Korn as much as the next guy, but c'mon! This guy is beyond douche-wankeriness.

And post #6 = f***in classic!

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 1:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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10. Red writes:

You'Re absolutely right about that. As I recall, Korn did come in at a time when metal was all glam and suckassiness. Over the years I lost interest in them but Cauldron ? It sounds like Iron Maiden wannabees but with no talent.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 1:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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11. Netromancer writes:

I'm not a fan of Nu-Metal by any means, (pretty much Korn and Soulfly's first albums, don't really dig it anymore) but as long as a style of music has fans it won't be "ruined". Music trends come and go, but I still see a bunch of bands tagged as Nu-Metal doing shows, touring, getting back together. It may not be as big as it was but there are still listeners. That a band like Cauldron can even get an interview these days is indicative of musical styles coming back around. Hell, if people are still listening to disco and 80's rock this guy has no room to talk. As far as I'm concerned Cauldron has found a way to alienate possible fans. Good job!

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 2:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
SHREDDER13's avatar

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12. SHREDDER13 writes:

Red says:

"Dude, I checked it out and it's f***ing gay, seriously gay. f*** man it's as bad as it can get."

I second that...I'd choose Cauldron's music over Korn anyday of the week!
In addition, to each their own right?...

\m/ "Cross Me Fool" by Razor \m/

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 2:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
13. dmasa writes:

wow another person rippin on nu-metal i guess that takes a lot of balls doesnt it?

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 2:46 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
LordAssenfroth's avatar

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14. LordAssenfroth writes:

i forgot people still cared about hating nu-metal but regardless i just checked out cauldron and its so 80's that i kinda think i f***ing love them. reminds me of ozzy's bark at the moon days with jake e. lee.

i could listen to 80's hair metal all day.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 4:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

15. Cynic writes:

Red: "As I recall, Korn did come in at a time when metal was all glam and suckassiness." - Well you're recollection is nothing short of lunacy. Unless of course by glam you meant black metal, or by Korn you meant Metallica.

Cauldron are some sweet NWOBHM (except, well not British) and beat nu-metal any day... also anyone who listens to NWAOBHM probably hates nu-metal so I doubt they're alienating fans, or would want Korn fans. Trends like Nu-metal will ebb and flow, but true metal will always be around.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 6:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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16. Blindgreed1 writes:

Cynic: They're Canadian right? I didn't think they were bad at all. I think Red confused glam with grunge.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 6:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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17. Cynic writes:

Lol! That A snuck in there, Niggaz With Attitude Of British Heavy Metal, respect.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 6:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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18. Cynic writes:

Yeah so says their myspace. As I've said on previous threads of theirs I think they rule.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 6:52 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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19. Blindgreed1 writes:

Cynic: You seriously need to write more stories/reviews man. That last installment was off the hook!

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 6:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
bananaterracottapie1's avatar

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20. bananaterracottapie1 writes:

Korn spawned an entire genre. Regardless of how f***in gay that musical movement turned out to be, Korn were and still are innovators. A f***in retro band talkin smack about genuinely original musicians is beyond pathetic. I checked Cauldron's music and they sound a lot like Maiden, which is always a good thing. I've got nothing against the band...just what they said. Oh well....


Np : Malevolent Creation - Thou Shall Kill!

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 9:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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21. Red writes:

I don't really know what I meant by glam but hey, I stand corrected.

# Apr 17, 2009 @ 9:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
AlliedFront676's avatar

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22. AlliedFront676 writes:

Korn blew up in tha late 90's, Korn didnt have sh** to do with grunge ending, that was all Kurt Kobains fault. Metal was awesome without out Korn, we had Faith No More and i would of been satisfied if it ended at at.

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 12:54 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
23. b.bristowe writes:

I hate Korn. But I'm canadian. Therefore Cauldron is automatically going to be better.

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 3:35 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Valley_of_the_Dead's avatar

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24. Valley_of_the_Dead writes:

Netromancer writes: I'm not a fan of Nu-Metal by any means, (pretty much Korn and Soulfly's first albums, don't really dig it anymore)

Soulfly are far from being branded as Nu-Metal, Netro, I actually can't believe that sh!t came out your mouth... Soulfly, whether you like 'em or not, are of tribal influence and are basically where Max intended on taking Sepultura before he packed his bags! Max is no sell out... I stand by it!!!

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 10:24 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KanadianKoRn's avatar

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25. KanadianKoRn writes:

Cauldron blows big donkey p***s!!!!!!!!!!!!!! listen im aware of how bad numetal turned out to be but lets be real this band is only mentioning KoRn so someone will actually respond to his bullsh** comments so people like us can be like " oh haters of numetal eh? i think im gonna check out that bands myspace" and what a royal waste of fu(king time that was!!!!!!

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 12:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

26. Diamond Oz writes:

As a very open fan of Nu Metal, all I can say is "... meh." Haven't checked out Cauldron so I can't slag them off but my theory is, everyone has a favourite time period in music and alot of people will say that anything that came after that time period is crap, so everything will seem like it's getting worse. So when he saw these guys with low tuned guitars, no solos and tracksuits being classed as metal, he got angry cause that isn't metal as a he sees it. Same way that I slag off generic, make up wearing scene bands. That's not metal to me.

Side note: Wanna hear something funny? One of my local promoter who claims to be a top metal promoter asked who Bruce d***inson was the other day! Proof that the scene is ignorant.

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 2:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
That_One_Guy's avatar

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27. That_One_Guy writes:

I'm surprised that so many people are saying that Cauldron sucks. If you ask me they're great. I didn't care for nu-metal much though, but that's just me.

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 3:07 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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28. XWigglesX writes:

Who? I think post 3 is right.
A bunch of nobodies calling out something this big is funny too.

# Apr 18, 2009 @ 8:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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29. Red writes:

Yeah it's like a midget wanting to kick Lebron James's butt in a slam dunk contest.

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 8:00 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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30. brandedcfh420 writes:

ok, the title on the front page says that Caldron are ruining nu-metal. but when you click on the article, it says that Cauldron are speaking out against nu-metal. is it both?

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 8:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
31. dootie writes:

cauldron ain't ruining sh** but themselves by speaking out like that, wonder if this guy is related to dave nut-stain

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 12:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Terminator's avatar

Reviewer

32. Terminator writes:

well, nu-metal ruined itself by being nu-metal.

I think a lot of you guys are either misinterpreting what the cauldron guy said or not reading the article. he said that "bands LIKE us are ruining it (nu-metal)". he never said that cauldron is taking out an entire genre by being superior in every way themselves.

its like thrash's war against glam in the '80s. he's simply vocalizing his dislike for nu-metal and wants it to go away. valid opinion if you ask me.

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 1:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Terminator's avatar

Reviewer

33. Terminator writes:

post 20 - so you're saying that korn deserves respect for spawning a sub-genre so bad its laughable yet cauldron doesnt because they're heavily influenced by 80s traditional/power metal?

i strongly disagree.

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 1:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
34. TorriderGore writes:

Lol, Cant help laugh at these nobodys thinking they're relevant.

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 2:11 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
35. That one guy writes:

Terminator -- i was thinking the same thing.

# Apr 19, 2009 @ 6:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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36. Netromancer writes:

I never said sell out. They had alot in common with, toured with, and had guest appearances by Nu Metal artists. Fred Durst and Chino Morino to name a couple. The music is very similar. I don't really care, call them whatever you want.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 12:52 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

37. psythe writes:

Korn played a large role in making Nu-metal incredibly popular, but I'm pretty sure they didn't 'spawn' the genre...

As with almost ALL genres of music, good nu-metal is good, and bad nu-metal is awful. People only hate Nu-metal so much because the ratio is far too heavily tipped in the favour of the latter. RATM and FNM were both brilliant bands. Korn's first two albums were STELLAR. Even Limp Bizkit's first album was decent. Cold had some great vibes goin for a while. Soulfly and Sevendust were both reasonable back in the day. Deftones are STILL fantastic. Back when Nu-metal was Nu-metal, it wasn't too shabby. But then it started mixing with hip-hop and TOO many TOO average 'artists' came out and the entire genre pretty much just f***ed it for itself.

And don't give me that "I hate nu-metal because it takes zero talent to play" unless you ONLY listen to bands like Necrophagist. Traditional metal might be harder to play than nu-metal (some of those solo's are blistering!) but the musicianship is still pretty lame, generally speaking, compared to bands out there that do concentrate on insane musicianship. Appreciate things for what they are rather than dissing them for what they're not.

I know, I know, "it's not true metal!" - well neither is Janis Joplin or Bob Dylan and they were both heavier souls than you. And 90% of the metal world. "Boo-hoo, it's not black enough, it doesn't grate my ears til they bleed"- hey, I love Black metal too, but just because a band raps, or plays simple tunes, doesn't mean they're bad. Go put Korn's debut on and listen - LISTEN - to the fury in the dude's voice. Or any of RATM's albums (except that rubbish covers album, sigh...). That sh**'s FAR more raw than SO much of your boring, typical black and death metal out there. As I said, STELLAR albums. Even if the music wasn't complex, even if they did rap, it was still way beyond a lot of bands in your precious 'true metal' category.

And just so you half consider what I'm saying before you get all antsy - I f***ing HATE most Nu-metal. And I f***ing LOVE good death metal, good black metal, good technical metal, good prog metal, good thrash metal, good classic metal, good etc... But I would always choose a good nu-metal album over a bad anything else. It's not the genre itself that defines the value of a band or album. That's all my point is. I am sick to death of all this 'true metal' bullsh** (see what I did there? lol).

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 8:42 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
That_One_Guy's avatar

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38. That_One_Guy writes:

psythe -- I agree with you 100 percent, but I can't write a post that long on my phone, lol.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 10:27 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KORNDOGG's avatar

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39. KORNDOGG writes:

psythe- Agreed 100%!

If you dont like it, you dont have to listen to it. But i bet 99% of you talking sh** about nu-metal, listened to it in the late 90's. I will always love nu-metal, as well as some other types of metal. And i know it isnt what it used to be, but there is alot of good bands still out there, cold, deftones, papa roach, three days grace, breaking benjamin, ect. f***ing rage can not make an album in the last ten years and still sell out places with 100,000 people. Alot of great bands, im not big on the whole mixing rock with rap, but like psythe said, it sure beats some boring a$$ metal!

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 11:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
MuDvAyNefan's avatar

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40. MuDvAyNefan writes:

LOL this is the dumbest article ever....main reason being.....who in the blue hell is Cauldron?! lol i sure havent heard of them and i just checked em out...WOW there is a reason why they not on the radio or at any cd store in Ontario....they suck pretty bad....they are just saying this to TRY to get attention for their band...AM Conspiracy did the same thing!

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 1:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
MuDvAyNefan's avatar

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41. MuDvAyNefan writes:

.....** wow just looked up some info and this craptastic band (Cauldron) is from Toronto..lol that's 3 hours away from me and i still haven't heard of them......i give this band 6 months and they will be done...***

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 1:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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42. Netromancer writes:

^While I don't particularly disagree with you, I wouldn't list radio play (especially radio, as most stations are corporate tools anyway) or even music store availability as reasons why a band is good. You'd be surprised how many great bands are hard to find.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 2:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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43. Blindgreed1 writes:

^ I can take Netro's comment a step further; I've heard much worse than Cauldron on the radio.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 2:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
44. Jeff Waters writes:

Good stuff boys!

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 7:34 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

45. Cynic writes:

@Psythe - "RATM and FNM were both brilliant bands." - I wouldn't consider either of those bands nu-metal... both had rapping, but that's not the sole definition of nu-metal.

"Go put Korn's debut on and listen - LISTEN" - I did, and it sounds like someone raping my favourite genre. How can you say nu-metal is valid because of the cream of its crop in the sea of mediocrity, yet in order to do so you contrast it against imaginary mediocre black and death bands? Nu-metal represents an assault most foul upon the word metal. I don't hate or even care about nu-metal bands, but the defilement of the borders of metal.

Also I'd like to point out to those who think Cauldron are "calling out" Korn or pronouncing their superiority to actually read the quotation.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 9:02 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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46. Cynic writes:

MuDvAyNefan - "lol that's 3 hours away from me and i still haven't heard of them" - Yeah chances are buddy you haven't heard of many good bands south of Metallica.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 9:07 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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47. Red writes:

cynic is on FIRE !

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 10:00 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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48. DeathInEye writes:

I see your point Cynic, and even agree to a point. A 'mediocre death band' beats a 'good nu-metal band' any day for me. But Psythe's point is that every genre has its elite and its duds, and that it's largely a matter of opinion.

As far as Cauldron, I don't condone rehashing old ideas. It's like a contemporary poet writing in Old English. It's been done, and done well. Do something new and I might look.

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 10:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KORNDOGG's avatar

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49. KORNDOGG writes:

Sorry cynic, but RATM and FNM are most definetly nu-metal! You are right though, not all nu-metal bands rap- for example, i consider slipknot, disturbed, 3dg, staind, ect to be nu-metal, and none mix rap with rock!

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 11:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
bananaterracottapie1's avatar

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50. bananaterracottapie1 writes:

"As far as Cauldron, I don't condone rehashing old ideas. It's like a contemporary poet writing in Old English. It's been done, and done well. Do something new and I might look."

^Exactly. Thats exactly what I've been trying to say. And psythe - you f***in rule, bro!

"so you're saying that korn deserves respect for spawning a sub-genre so bad its laughable yet cauldron doesnt because they're heavily influenced by 80s traditional/power metal?"

Yep. I would most definitely appreciate someone who tries to do something new and doesnt give a sh** about the inevitable backlash, rather than someone who plays it safe.

by "how f***in gay that musical movement turned out to be", I meant that nu-metal didnt age well and of course with bands like limp suckit and stinkin c***, you would know for a fact it wont.

Listen to Fake from Korn's self-titled. It has GREAT lyrics, not your typical "I hate mommy" bullsh**.
Listen to Davis. I've never heard anyone balance hyperactivity and tranquility so beautifully. Dont expect blistering solos or lyrics along the lines of "basking in the eternal glow of satanic malevolence", cause you'll be sorely dissapointed.


Np : Blotted Science - Amnesia

# Apr 20, 2009 @ 11:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

51. psythe writes:

^Cheers lol. You're a cool kid yourself.

Actually, neither RATM nor FNM are nu-metal, it's true, but so many people just lump 'em in there that I kinda went "f*** it" and did too.

"How can you say nu-metal is valid because of the cream of its crop in the sea of mediocrity" - that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying the cream of its crop are valid and dismissing them simply because of the genre they are in (and because of the mediocrity of their peers) is fairly narrow-minded as far as I'm concerned.

"imaginary mediocre black and death bands" - true, I didn't name any bands here specifically, but you've missed my point. I didn't mean to compare bad bands of one genre to good bands of another (how such a comparison could even be possible, I don't know). What I was aiming at saying was more along the lines of pointing out that there ARE mediocre black and death bands out there, but you don't generally hate their entire genre simply because of them. Whereas with nu-metal we do tend to forget that the genre does have its good bands and albums and dismiss it altogether as being rubbish. My point is that when we do this, we are, basically, hearing only what we want to hear, not keeping an open ear, and being quite narrow-minded.

"it sounds like someone raping my favourite genre"- I see what you're saying, nu-metal isn't metal. It's just a down-tuned punk/grunge/rock crossover, right? Even so, my point here (I feel you've missed it again) was that there are times when we have to appreciate musicians who are making music that touches their soul, and who pour their very souls into the music (Korn's debut being a perfect example I thought) they make, even if we don't generally enjoy that kind of music. My point was that Korn's debut had an integral value that much music these days does not due to the sheer raw emotion being portrayed through it by the artists (Jon in particular) and felt through it by both artist and audience alike.

And just so I'm not aiming all my arguments at Cynic - Korndogg, you're an idiot. Are you seriously suggesting that Corey Taylor doesn't rap? Seriously? Is that what you're suggesting? You might as well argue that coconuts migrate.

Now Playing: Safri Duo - "Played-A-Live" (omg African percussion mixed with trance atmosphere!!)

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 5:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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52. XWigglesX writes:

Dude you just had to stop with "Korndogg you're an idiot"
We all know its true.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 5:54 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

53. Cynic writes:

I agree with your second paragraph, it's just as guilty as black/death/extreme metal fans are of being narrow-minded, I get sick of non-metal people constantly picking on imaginary sh**ty extreme bands when they often don't even know anything about the genre (to quote KORNDOGG: "it sure beats some boring a$$ metal!").

I respect musicians who truly pour their soul into their music on a certain level, even Korn. And just as I've always said in my profile I don't have any problems with nu-metal that keeps it's distance, I just don't like it. So in a way I disagree that Korn's music has an integral value because for me I don't see it, although that might be hard for you to understand. Just like I find it hard to understand why my friends can't see the integral value in Darkthrone :P

Meh, I think post 45 was more my need to play devils advocate coming out than anything else lol - as far as elitists go I think you'll find I'm pretty lenient to nu-metal. Also I'd note that I haven't listened to much Korn.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 5:58 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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54. psythe writes:

What? Somebody doesn't like Darkthrone?? Blasphemy! Heresy! Persecute the unbeliever!! lol

hahah I used to get myself into arguments like this all the time coz I just enjoyed the arguing. Don't really rant too much anymore, I got over it. Every now and again something flares up and I go off on some ramble which is probably completely off-topic anyway lol.

As far as Korn goes (if I can stretch to a techno comparison lol) they're like the minimalists of metal. Their music is simple. Their lyrics are simple. Their everything is simple. But until they started mixing hip-hop into their music (horribly trend started with Follow The Leader) they were surprisingly good for what they are. Of course, you'd have to be ready to give nu-metal a chance to agree with me. Since nu-metal is drawing it's final rattling breaths anyway, I probly wouldn't urge you too strongly to bother too hard with them.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 6:14 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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55. psythe writes:

*horribly?? clearly I meant horrible.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 6:16 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KORNDOGG's avatar

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56. KORNDOGG writes:

LOL! Psythe you think slipknot "raps"! Are you a f***ing retard. You cant put slipknot and rap in the same paragraph dumbass! Wow, corey taylor is a rapper, LOL!!!!!! Dont tell jay-z!! So im such an idiot for thinking he wasnt right, psythe? But you know it all...

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 8:36 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KORNDOGG's avatar

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57. KORNDOGG writes:

And your wrong again, RATM is most certainly nu-metal to the fullest!

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 8:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
bananaterracottapie1's avatar

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58. bananaterracottapie1 writes:

^Wuhahahahahah. The last two posts are absolutely f***in hilarious...and retarded.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 8:48 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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59. Red writes:

Wow this has turned into a huge debate. I will not b**** new metal because I listened to it. Korn, Limp Bizkit and the likes, I did and I enjoyed it. Not anymore but I will not deny my past in any shape or form.

Now, RATM I dunno if you can call it new metal. But in the end it doesn't matter because they put out great original music out there and I think they would still be relevant today if they came back with some music.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 8:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

60. psythe writes:

hahah I'm gonna go ahead and let post 58 do my talking for me :)

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 9:56 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KORNDOGG's avatar

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61. KORNDOGG writes:

Dont let him do your talking, explain yourself Mr. Intelligent! Corey Taylor a rapper huh?

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 11:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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62. Red writes:

It's funny how an insignificant band like Cauldron are able to make us talk that much on this thread. I guess it's good publicity after all. We got owned by those dudes.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:13 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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63. Blindgreed1 writes:

RED: EXACTLY! I felt that comming all the way back at post #7.

Cynic/Psythe/Wiggles/banana: You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. One should never wage a war of wits against an unarmed foe.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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64. Fuck_A_Name writes:

SLipknot doesnt rap?

Scream!

Fell forth, destroy the source,
Cant see and my voice is hoarse,
Trying to wash your hands off,
You should know better than to leave us in disgust,

Let me take you right to the point,
All you ever do is encage in disjoint,
That does it the time has arrived,
Take it or leave it you better not side!

You did it again,
All you ever did was doubt,
What do you want?
Let me tell you what it's all about,

One life
Nine Hearts
And Eighteen Hands that'll rip you all apart

We're here to decimate,
To show you all we will never fall,
Its gonna get serious.. and critical,
Don't Stop because the feeling is terminal

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

Member

65. Fuck_A_Name writes:

oh yeah, and I found this one too, not three seconds later...

The Opium Of The People lyrics

Watch those idiosyncrasies
Watch all the idiots fall on me
Running out of ways to get outta the way
Take another shot just to stay the same
But I need some balance - Back it off
Fill your lungs 'til it makes you cough
Tell me everything's gonna be alright
'Cause I don't think I'll make it through tonight

The only way - Is all the way

Oh - my - God
It's judgement day and I'm not prepared
Everybody out there's running scared
So - Take a little bit off the top
I don't care, just make it stop

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

Member

66. Fuck_A_Name writes:

oh, and just so you dont think I'm only pulling from vol. 3,

New Abortion lyrics
I'm ethereal, my children are legion, serial
They stick to my skin like beloved cysts
I tear away with my nails and teeth and fists
Touch the hands of inverted saints
Follow my heart through the threaded pain
Callow man is a sentinel screaming
I see the future; the future is bleeding

Sores, every goddamn minute I can feel 'em now
Like a virus, you will never kill me now
Goin' underground, comin' on like hepatitis
We're out - and you can't reshape us
Another bug in the construct
Tearin' up the main bus B
Zeros and ones are everything - execute me

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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67. Blindgreed1 writes:

FAN: No Sam I am, I will not eat green eggs and ham!

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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68. Fuck_A_Name writes:

^I think those are part of the lyrics to the new album, I have to look it up, I'm not sure

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 1:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KORNDOGG's avatar

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69. KORNDOGG writes:

So wait, now you are saying that any band who rhymes the slightest bit is rapping? So in order to not be considered rap, you have to not rhyme? WOW! And to think you guys actually consider yourselves intelligent when it comes to music! Nickleback rhymes, are they rap? Mudvayne rhymes, how bout them? Metallica even rhyme, oh but they couldnt be?

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 3:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KanadianKoRn's avatar

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70. KanadianKoRn writes:

^hahahahaha what a fool................

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 3:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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71. Fuck_A_Name writes:

^it's the rhythmic structure you moron.

there is a vast difference between simply rhyming, even in a poetic fashion, and rapping, which is an extension of poetic structure to include a standard in which the beat is primary, and the statement of the lyrics follows the beat's pattern.

Considering nu-metal's vast adherence to leading bass playing, low-tuned, rhythmic guitars, and often the inclusion of a DJ or sythesizer, rapping vocals often work best. Slipknot was a testament to his fact.

As foir your examples,
Nickelback follows the Dr.suess rhyme scheme, just less fanciful. Whatever it takes to entertain the masses and get as popular as possible, without trying too hard.

Mudvayne was intrestingly poetic in the beginning, but as of recent efforts, I'll toss their attempts at semi-rapping vocals in the garbage.

Metallica was poetic. Epicly poetic. not to mention the fact that half the time their choruses didnt even try to rhyme, they were chants for the most part, making it near impossible to call their style rapping.

the problem is, you lack the basic human skills neccesary to distinguish the singing style of rapping from any other. you qualify the fact that they "rhyme" as the only definition of the style. In short, you are an idiot Korndogg.

wow, i just realized this entire rant/explanation was a waste of time. You'll probably ignore or misquote it anyway. :P

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 3:52 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

72. Cynic writes:

God damn it FAN how do you release a post like that in the time it takes me to write this one?! Lol, well I'll still post it anyway (enters password...)

KORNDOGG: Well obviously not. You're free to disagree, but I'd love to hear you're reasoning as to what sets Limp Bizkit's and Slipknots rapping apart. Multiple rhyming phrases, speed, short rhythmic repetition, persistent lyrics, alliteration, cadence, stressing words on beats, all particular to rap. I can't be bothered writing an article on this but this line has most of these things,

"I'm ethereal, my children are legion, serial"

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 3:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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73. DeathInEye writes:

Mudvayne's L.D. 50 is nearly rap the whole way through and even the follow-up has rapping. You can't tell me Mudvayne lacks rapping. Nearly every one of Slipknot's singles from their Self-Titled and Iowa is rapping (ie (SIC), Spit It Out, Heretic Anthem, People = Sh!t, Surfacing).

FNM and RATM are rap-rock IMO. Metal, by their time, was more audibley extreme...I think. But I don't claim to be a scholar.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 7:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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74. psythe writes:

^Yeah I tend to throw RATM in with the Rap/Rock groups. And L.D.50 might've had rapping in it, but at least it was slightly poetic - had some nice metaphors and so on.

Oh, and just so you all know, Green Eggs And Ham is a literary masterpiece. Loved that book when I was like, 3, hahah :)

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 8:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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75. DeathInEye writes:

Oh, I wasn't complaining. Death Blooms and -1 are great tunes.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 8:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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76. Red writes:

Corey Taylor does kinda rap, not all the time but some songs, especially on the earlier albums he definitevely did.

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 10:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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77. XWigglesX writes:

Spit it Out....
So what are you going to tell me next? That Fall Out Boy are a legit punk rock band?

# Apr 21, 2009 @ 11:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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78. Netromancer writes:

If we are arguing labels, Faith No More was around long before the "Nu Metal" tag even existed. While they influenced the trend, one could argue they fell more into the "Alternative Rock" phase that came a few years before. Which seems to me as a catch-all term used for bands who weren't easily classified. That's if one wanted to argue semantics. Considering FNM was creatively far beyond anything classified "Nu Metal" I'd argue their versatility put them outside that descriptive term.

These "music classification" arguements bring an old quote to mind as well.

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture."
-Steve Martin

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 2:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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79. Fuck_A_Name writes:

^my gay friend tries to tell me that falloutboy are punk all the time. WhenI tell him they're pop-punk, he still insists I'm wrong, then he tries to tell me that emo evolved from hardcore music, and I laugh at him twice.

and just for the note, read a Dr. suess book and pretend it's about sex. you'll laugh your head off, and then start to have a sneaking suspicion that it is about sex anyway...specifically green eggs...and one fish two fish....good stuff.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 2:05 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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80. XWigglesX writes:

Nothing punk about FOB. Where is the rebellion and aggression?
It is the same style as Nickelback. Pop music. Not punk.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 3:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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81. Cynic writes:

I think we're agreed FNM and RATM aren't nu-metal, and that Slipknot rap.

Now Playing: Mortifera - "Epologue D'une Existence De Cyrssthal"

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 4:37 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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82. Red writes:

agreed

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 6:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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83. Fuck_A_Name writes:

Although I do agree RATM arent nu-metal, I cant seem to put my finger on what exactly sets them apart from the genre. they rap, place focus on rhythmic guitar-playing, use a sythesizer, and have heavily accentuated bass playing. All qualities I generally attribute to Nu-metal.

I know that they exist in a bit outside of it, I just detest not being able properly express my opinion on something, and not being able to properly classify a band.

FNM I've never even considered calling Nu, they always gave off an "alternative rock" sound, whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, with a tinge of whatever the hell Tool wants to call itself. Sure, they heavily influenced the genre, at least vocally, but it would be like classifying Iron maiden thrash just becasue they influenced Metallica heavily. :P

For all my prior ranting on the subject, suddenly I'm vague and at a loss. lol

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 8:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
84. Terrorizing The Terror writes:

i've never even heard of Cauldron.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 11:27 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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85. That_One_Guy writes:

Terrorizing the Terror -- I suggest you check them out. Only a few people here on this thread seem to like them, but I think they're worth your time.

Now playing: Destruction - "The Damned (Plasmatics cover)"

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 11:40 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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86. MuDvAyNefan writes:

^ don't feel alone nobody has...i work for at rock/heavy metal station and i looked up to see if Cauldron has ever been on the radio in Ontario in our data base and nope so they are like i said just a small band that is going to vanish real soon if they don't get some media attention...and by TRYING to bash koRn of all bands, they think they can get some real attention so real people can buy their crap album and buy tickets to their shows then let em say what they want...but the truth still is....they blow pretty bad!

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 11:40 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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87. That_One_Guy writes:

Mudvaynefan -- Cauldron have a record deal with Earache Records and they just released their first full-length album. Just because they don't have as many record releases under their belts as Korn doesn't make them any worse. Besides, a lot of bands don't really mature and get noticed until their 2nd or 3rd album. Maybe you should just give Cauldron some time and see what happens. But I don't think that'll make much of a difference in your mind anyway, seeing as you've already made up your mind about them and chances are you've never even heard them before.

Now playing: Destruction - "The Last Judgment"
^^ I love the guitar in this song.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 11:50 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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88. MuDvAyNefan writes:

no i haven't heard of them before until yesterday but after listening to 3 of their songs that's all it took for me to realize i don't like them one bit.

and hey i know its only their 1st try I'm not saying that they will suck (in my mind forever) if they do stay around then ya maybe their next attempt will be better.....i mean look at Amorphis i love that band but hated their older stuff

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 11:54 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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89. That_One_Guy writes:

Mudvaynefan -- Ironically, I love Amorphis' older stuff but hate their newer material.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 12:11 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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90. Blindgreed1 writes:

dootie: That's Dave Cumstain to you.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 12:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
MuDvAyNefan's avatar

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91. MuDvAyNefan writes:

o really i guess u like the way rough death metal vocals than the clear stuff eh not me i love Amorphis ever since they got their new singer....really looking forward to their new album to

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 1:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
That_One_Guy's avatar

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92. That_One_Guy writes:

Mudvaynefan -- For me it kind of varies according to the mood I'm in. I occasionally like clean vocals better, but I usually I listen to death / black and thrash metal. I'm not saying the new vocalist sucks or anything like that; he's quite good. I just can't get into the music as much as I could with the older material. I loved their cover of "Light My Fire" by The Doors.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 1:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

93. Cynic writes:

MuDvAyNefan - "i said just a small band that is going to vanish real soon if they don't get some media attention..." - f***ing lol. A) They just signed to Earache. B) You sound like you know nothing about how metal works, i.e. it's not about selling records, getting on MTV and becoming famous. That happens to sh**ty rock/pop groups like Nickelback.

Now Playing: The Melvins - "Goin' Blind"

Also, if you don't know what NWOBHM stands for chances are this bands not aimed at a baggy pantsed mallgoths and rock fans. Cauldron are a metal band. I sure hope they don't get "better" (aka become commercial) like Amorphis. Best Amorphis album is "Tales From the Thousand Lakes" if you ask me.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 3:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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94. DeathInEye writes:

Wiggles, I'm not sure if you were directing your comment at me but I haven't the slightest clue how FOB came into this conversation. I have a hard time seeing them as musicians period let alone punk.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 4:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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95. Blindgreed1 writes:

Cynic: Is it New Wave of Bada$$ Heavy Metal? lol. You've been on fire lately brother. Nice to see you back in trve form. I'm off to get some footage for a video that me and the boys have been working on. Cheers! I'll look for ya tomorrow.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 5:43 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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96. MuDvAyNefan writes:

Cynic - LMAO "I sure hope they don't get "better" (aka become commercial) like Amorphis. haha you think Amorphis is commercial?!! ha their last album sold around 21 thousand copies and 80% was from their home country! that's not commercial! i bet its only because they have clean vocals now so you think their commercial
....i love how your trying to to get a smart thing to say but it really isn't working out for ya boy:)
and hmmmm last time i watched MTV (this morning) they were playing Metallica and Opeth's newest videos...so your saying they must be sh** to...because they are famous and are played after a Nickelback song
lol can honestly say that Nickelback is better than this Cauldron band anyways!
...AND im still not done you think since they got signed to Earache that means there gonna go places? haha that doesn't mean a thing! i know how the music industry works unlike you...so say what you will .... if that band doesn't sell tickets/albums/merch they will be dropped so fast by that crap label!

That_One_Guy - ya man that's awesome "Light My Fire" is actually my favourite "older" song by them. Its a really good cover.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 6:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

97. Cynic writes:

I'm not trying to do anything. I admit you're correct though I mispoke, I should have written "become more commercial.", especially as I don't consider anything wrong with Amorphis (though I haven't listened to too much recent output). Commerciality is not about sales it is saleability, so you haven't proved diddly squat.

I also never said being on MTV makes a band sh**, don't you get sick of twisting peoples point of view? That might be a byproduct of great music, but it's not the driving force.

"you think since they got signed to Earache that means there gonna go places?" - LOL! Do you know what being signed to Earache means for a metal band? They ARE places. They write music for their living, signed alongside Morbid Angel, Napalm Death etc. that's the end of the line.

"i know how the music industry works unlike you...(etc)" - Music is about creative release and art, not selling records and merch you materialistic f***. I wouldn't expect you to understand a concept like artistic integrity anyway.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 6:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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98. Cynic writes:

it is *about* saleability

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 6:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
99. Xavez writes:

i like milk.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 8:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
100. billy bob writes:

For the record, Korn don't claim to be metal. They are what they are, a heavy rock band influenced by hip-hop and SOME metal. All the impersonators took it to the next level (like Slipknot) and claimed to be heavy as f*** metal.

Also, Cauldron are just another generic iron maiden influenced band. Gee how original is it to play like Iron Maiden...

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 9:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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101. MuDvAyNefan writes:

^ ya they are not original at all...thats why they will never be a successful band or have more than a handful of fans.

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 9:15 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

102. Cynic writes:

I think, that if you knew about the popularity of NWOBHM or retro-thrash then you know that's not quite true. Also to beat an ignored dead horse, not everyone defines success in record sales and fan quantity. Do I need to bring Britteny Spears into the mix to prove my point?

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 9:23 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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103. Red writes:

Please don't I,m going to be super sick....beuaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg ! sh** !! Too late !

# Apr 22, 2009 @ 10:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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104. DeathInEye writes:

Just to be clear, I don't necessarily agree with Mudvaynefan, because, well I find him to an ignorant wanker.

But Cynic, you say first, "if you knew about the popularity of NWOBHM or retro-thrash then you know that's not quite true," and then follow-up with "not everyone defines success in record sales and fan quantity." Are these statements not contradictory? I may be misreading you, but you seem to be implying in your first statement that NWOBHM and Retro-Thrash are quite popular, while saying in your second statement that popularity is meaningless to some. This just seems circular. I think you can argue better.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 8:46 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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105. MuDvAyNefan writes:

^ im sorry but did you just call me an wanker.... o man.... what ever will i do now... what a mean weird name to call someone.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 10:05 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

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106. Red writes:

LOFL, a wanker !!! That's hilarious.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 11:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
IrishMetal's avatar

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107. IrishMetal writes:

@ DIE - Cynic was disagreeing with Mudvaynefans statement that they will never have fans or be successful, and maintains that record sales aren't everything, as they can well have many fans who go to shows, but perhaps not so many sales. Tis nay circular, just possibly misunderstood.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 12:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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108. Cynic writes:

It's not circular, those things aren't mutually exclusive - i.e., it's completely possible for sales to mean nothing to an artist, yet they still sell millions. John Frusciante for example. I guess I was stating two separate points. Thanks Irish.

Lol at BG - hell yes it is badass. Is the video to go with your music?

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 8:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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109. DeathInEye writes:

Yeah, I figured I was misreading your prior comment. To me, you said NWOBHM has sales/fans, but then that it doesn't necessarily matter (to whomever) that NWOBHM has sales/fans. Which then, to me and my apparently illiterate brain, begs to be asked 'why even mention then that NWOBHM has sales/fans?" See what I mean?

Either way, excuse my confusion.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 8:42 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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110. Cynic writes:

I repeat that "success is not always defined in sales/Britney Spears" anecdote so much I'm thinking of adding a list called "Common Refutations To Arguments" into my profile. Then when stupid comments are made I'll just say, "Read section 3 and 7 in my profile!" haha.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 9:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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111. DeathInEye writes:

Well I must admit, part of me just wanted to debate you. It's usually quite fun, but rare. I usually agree with you, and actually do here too. Sales don't = quality art produced. I would debate their creativity/originality.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 9:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

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112. Cynic writes:

Well I'm about to finish my lunch break so this will probably be my last post for some time, but what you said takes me back to the first thing said in bananaterracottapie1's post 50, which here I have to disagree with.

Now normally originality is something I crave in all of my bands, I won't bore you with a speech here. But, I think bands can have original output in old genres as long as they make it their own (which I feel Cauldron are doing, they're not amazing but I like them enough), i.e. you don't need to invent new genres in each release (here's looking at you Bathory! :P).

This is mainly drawn from example new bands which I love even though they play established genres, a good example is the retro-thrash band Violator - as quality as any oldschool thrash band imho but new. Even a good hypothetical example (bear with me), what if Metallica had never written Ride The Lightning? What if instead, RTL was released now by a new band? Would it be less of a classic album because it sounded like Master Of Puppets or old thrash? I don't think so, since the riffs etc are all the same.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 9:37 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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113. DeathInEye writes:

To your first point, I agree, originality does not mean creating a new genre every release. However, every release should attempt to redefine where a genre can go. With that said, I strongly believe genres have breaking points, so to speak. That is to say a genre can be so stretched that it no longer resembles the origin from which it spawned. Cauldron, to me, are like puritans, once upon a time, they would have been called rebels, revolutionary, but now they're just stuffy revivalists who believe in systems that had their time, but are now dusty.


As far your hypothetical...I believe art is a product of time and state of mind and being. RTL couldn't be written by anyone but Metallica at that point in time. And if it were written now, by a new band, and Metallica still existed, as I assume they do from your mentioning MoP, said new band might be treated like Trivium. :-P

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 10:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

114. Cynic writes:

Well, I guess I'd have to agree that ideologically they are puritans. At it's core, the act/mindset of being a retro band is unsavory because at it's heart you will never surpass your masters and always be by definition, a dressed up cover band. But not ideologically, purely physically - if you gave a random old school metal fan a Cauldron album and a Diamond Head album and told them they were both made in 1983, conceivably they could both think each are equally great - despite being made decades apart (much more realistic hypothetical situation from the previous one!). So at it's heart, to the listener the era music was made in can be stripped away as nothing but a placebo effect placed on the music.

So it is technically possible to create music as good as it was, but very, very difficult as you say as that magic that happened back then was an amazing time. However, this is still only Cauldrons first release - how many awesome bands first release's start off as homage to their favourite bands? Answer, a lot of them.

Also (yes I know I said I wouldn't be back and now I'm posting a massive rant :P), I wouldn't however class them as stuffy revivalists. I think genres are timeless, and not limited to be enjoyed by people in one decade.

# Apr 23, 2009 @ 11:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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115. Blindgreed1 writes:

Cynic: Of course it is. What would be the point if it wasn't? Don't let me take you out of your game man. Meet me in the chat thread to talk more about it.

DIE: I have a newfound respect for you.

# Apr 24, 2009 @ 1:20 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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116. XWigglesX writes:

To be honest I'd rather go to a show with a small crowd and a bunch of bands on small independant labels than a band that has made it with a big crowd.
At a smaller show it seems that the people there actually give a sh** and the bands are stoked to be playing.
Bigger bands take it as a job.
Music should be about passion and honesty and focus on what the scene(s) actually stand for.
Which is the music people!
f*** all the fashion obsessed people and f*** you Mudvaynefan.

# Apr 24, 2009 @ 6:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RememberMetal?'s avatar

Writer/Reviewer

117. RememberMetal? writes:

Wow, I read way too much of that...

There seems to be a pandemic of navel-gazing from bands when any sub-genre starts to run away with the spotlight. Most bands with a shred of self-respect (metal or not) will evolve on their own terms--f*ck current events.

One thing that can't be argued, is that Korn brought "A METRIC F*CK-TON" of non-metal fans to the fold. I've got friends who didn't give Slayer or Pantera the time of day but 3 years after Korn's "Follow the Leader" they were buying Darkthrone albums.

Now Playing: Watain - "I Am the Earth"

# Apr 24, 2009 @ 7:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RememberMetal?'s avatar

Writer/Reviewer

118. RememberMetal? writes:

btw, I can't stand Cauldron.

# Apr 24, 2009 @ 7:53 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

119. DeathInEye writes:

Cynic, "if you gave a random old school metal fan a Cauldron album and a Diamond Head album and told them they were both made in 1983, conceivably they could both think each are equally great - despite being made decades apart (much more realistic hypothetical situation from the previous one!)."

This may pose a problem to my outlook, but I think to that fan, I'd say 'have at it,' because either A) they're living in the past and don't care about modern metal or B) they don't actually care about the music period, because if Cauldron had released their music back then, they'd have blown-up like Iron Maiden. I certainly wouldn't look to them for an amazing 'new' band.

Also, I'm not trying to say Cauldron are a 'bad band,' but rather I find it humorous that they took time to criticize nu-metal, when they're not pushing any envelopes. I'd be mute if Necrophagist or Opeth or fvck Behold...the Arctopus! were the ones "ruining nu-metal."

BG1: new-found? did we have bad blood at one point? much respect at ya though.

# Apr 24, 2009 @ 10:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
btbamfav20's avatar

Member

120. btbamfav20 writes:

Nu-Metal is ruing Nu-Metal

Now listening to: Expansion And Collapse - Byzantine

# Apr 24, 2009 @ 11:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

121. psythe writes:

^The whole world is ruing nu-metal, even if you DID mean ruining lol. Oh, and just quietly, Byzantine are f***ing awesome (thumbs up).

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 2:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
That_One_Guy's avatar

Member

122. That_One_Guy writes:

psythe -- lol.

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 10:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
123. mudvayn fan writes:

XWigglesX u really are pretty pathetic.

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 1:09 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

124. psythe writes:

^At least he's pretty. You're pathetic and ugly, that's a creepy combo.

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 6:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

125. XWigglesX writes:

How? Because I actually care more about my scene being underground and true rather than mainstream?

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 7:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
126. mudvayn fan writes:

psythe - lmao and by that post it shows me your a liitle kid that is pretty imature...lol o like how your a "writer" and "reviewer" you feel special?

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 10:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
bananaterracottapie1's avatar

Member

127. bananaterracottapie1 writes:

"It's funny how an insignificant band like Cauldron are able to make us talk that much on this thread. I guess it's good publicity after all. We got owned by those dudes."

72 posts later, we're still going at it. Mega ownage indeed!!

# Apr 25, 2009 @ 11:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

128. XWigglesX writes:

"liitle kid that is pretty imature"

But at least he uses proper English.

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 12:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

129. psythe writes:

Wait, what? Are you saying that feeling special is a bad thing? Wow. Little kid that is pretty immature... isn't 'immature' basically the definition of 'little kid' - I mean, a child is not an adult. You're saying that I'm a child that is pretty childish? Wow. You're insulting me by saying that I am a 'little kid,' right? And yet my literacy skills are clearly greater than what you've demonstrated your own to be. So you're basically saying that I am a, let's say, 6 year old (I think that qualifies as a 'little kid'), and by extension that a 6 year old child is smarter than you are. Wow.

I've never been so insulted...

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 12:54 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
130. Mudvayne fan writes:

^ ya wow see its taking you so much to figure the insult out...you actually have to type out your thoughts like you just did in order to make yourself "look" intelligent but really aren't....take a break and calm down boy:)

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 1:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

Member

131. Fuck_A_Name writes:

^if you think that, then you didnt read his last post at all.

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 5:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RememberMetal?'s avatar

Writer/Reviewer

132. RememberMetal? writes:

Mudvayne fan

I'm sure you're not dense but when things like "ya wow," "imature," "your," when you mean "you're" all show up so close to each other people stop caring about what you have to say. Maybe I missed something but in which of Psythe's posts did he claim that his site title made him better than you or anyone else?

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 7:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

Member

133. Red writes:

I told you all the mexicans would kill us all...they invented the pork flu...those bastards.

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 7:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
That_One_Guy's avatar

Member

134. That_One_Guy writes:

Red -- lol. Mudvaynefan -- you got owned.

# Apr 26, 2009 @ 8:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
135. daDdY writes:

i have never heard of cauldron either, and i have heard alot of bands underground or not. i think they are just talkin smack because they want to get recognized somehow and get their name in the spotlight for a few minutes, but people will soon forget. bands have been doing that forever. HA!!! they probably own all of korns albums as well as thousands of dollars in merchandise.

# May 1, 2009 @ 2:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

Member

136. Blindgreed1 writes:

^^ Doubtful.

# May 1, 2009 @ 10:48 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
That_One_Guy's avatar

Member

137. That_One_Guy writes:

daDdY -- What makes you such an expert on the subject?

# May 1, 2009 @ 11:02 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RememberMetal?'s avatar

Writer/Reviewer

138. RememberMetal? writes:

Nu-metal ruined itself 10 years ago didn't it?...Am I wrong?

Cauldrons singer needs a new mission statement.

Now Playing: Dying Fetus - "Fornication Terrorist"

# May 1, 2009 @ 12:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address

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