"some music was meant to stay underground..."

OpEd

Stop Stealing Music: A Musicians Perspective

Photo of Autumns Eyes

Band Photo: Autumns Eyes (?)

It's a strong misconception that musicians in the limelight are financially stable, and have more money than they know what to do with. Granted this may be true for your GaGa's and Green Day's of the world, but not with independent artists such as myself. Independent musicians actually strive to be successful financially, and use their talents to make a paycheck just like anyone else in the working world. There's only one problem, well actually several problems. I'm speaking of course about all the greedy selfish bums who pirate and steal music.

I used to be one of them, and I'm ashamed to admit it. I downloaded hordes of music in the past, and never thought twice about doing so. It wasn't until I began selling my own music when I realized what a shameful display of greed this epidemic has become.

When I started recording music under the name Autumns Eyes, I had no intentions of promoting or selling my creations. Several years passed by with only a small group of friends hearing what I'd recorded. It wasn't until a couple years ago that I got into promoting what I do in hopes of sharing it with the masses.

At first, I gave away all my material for free via downloads on the Autumns Eyes website. I even surpassed 10,000 album downloads in the first year doing so. Years later, I decided to sell one of my albums on iTunes to see if I could in fact make any money here. Not because I was greedy and wanted to be rich, but because just like everyone else, I had bills to pay.

The first album I sold on iTunes did moderately well, and sold a few copies here and there. The next release I did was again given away free of charge, and did significantly better in download numbers than the album I previously sold on iTunes.

I wondered if perhaps the quality of the recordings and songs had something to do with this. After all, the prior albums were recorded with cheap equipment on a much quicker and spontaneous time frame. So I made sure to put everything I had into my next album. I spent years writing and recording the newest release, and pushed through stressful road blocks along the way such as having multiple surgeries on my wrist. Nothing short of getting hit by a truck could have stopped me from putting everything I had into my work.

The time came to release my new album, and the debut went very well. Days went by and sales were growing. Then, out of nowhere, I suddenly noticed a huge drop in sales. I did a Google search for my new album and found a handful of sites giving my new album away for free. I immediately calmed my angry nerves, and began to file Digital Millennium Copyright Act claims against the sites which were illegally giving away my material. My content was then removed, and the sites were shut down soon after.

I ended up setting a Google Alert for the title of my new album, which in turn would send me an email every time the title would appear in Google's search results. I was completely stunned by the results. Multiple sites were now giving away what I spent years of hard work on, for free. The illegal activity was spreading like wildfire. So much that I couldn't keep up with all the illegal sites popping up. For every site I reported, ten more would take its place.

It made me sick to my stomach, and I couldn't wrap my head around why this happened. It's hard to translate this experience to someone who doesn't know what it's like first hand. Even more shocking are the excuses people gave for pirating music illegally, and saying things like "they don't need the money, it's probably getting them more exposure anyways" which is as unintelligent a statement one could make on the subject.

The people pirating music act as if they have the right to dictate what musicians need and deserve. Yet they fail to realize that no matter what immature and irrelevant excuse they spew out of their greedy little mouths, there is nothing to excuse the fact that they are severely damaging the one thing they claim to love in the first place. The music itself.

How do they expect musicians to fund their recordings, go on tour, and even buy more equipment? If musicians are forced to reach into their own pockets for these things, it's less likely that people are going to get a product they will enjoy. Fans won't get a tour in their city, they won't get any merchandise, and they won't get a quality recording from the band. If a person really likes a band and wants to hear/see more from them in the future, why would they deem it appropriate to steal from them and prevent that from happening?

What's even worse, is that some people actually get legitimately angry in defense of stealing music. As if they earned the right to rob artists of their hard work. Well they don't have the right to steal from someone, and they never will. If they steal music they are nothing more than a parasite.

People have also argued they can’t afford to purchase music. By this logic if you can’t afford a concert ticket, you should be able to walk into a venue and watch the show for free. Hell, why not just grab some free merchandise too since you can’t afford that either? Artists work hard to share their creative vision with the rest of the world, and fans have to work hard earning money to support it.

Even the bigger named acts suffer from this, as surprising as that may seem. If a big name band takes a hit in record sales, the concert promoters won’t have any reason to book them since they can’t even sell any records. Touring is where a lot of bands make the most money, and when you take that away they no longer have the ability to pay for studio recordings, merchandise, road crew, and so on.

Someone who steals music is no different from a shoplifter, the only difference being its much easier to get away with stealing music via the internet since it happens so quickly, and there is nobody watching over to catch you in the act. It's a senseless act of greed and selfishness that needs to stop before it gets worse. Sadly, many people will continue to take this for granted and eventually wonder why the music they used to love has failed to grow, as this plague continues to spread like a virus.

Generally I encourage people to share their comments on articles like this, whether it be a positive outlook or even a negative one. However, if ones aim here is to try and argue why there is nothing wrong with stealing music, I ask that they not even waste their words. There is nothing anyone can say to make this right, but there is something that can be done about it. This is one case where actions will most definitely speak louder than words.

Check out another view on this subject from verteran death metal band, Kataklysm by clicking here.

AutumnsEyes's avatar

As the upcoming host for Metal Underground.com's podcast, Dan has experience behind the microphone in more ways than one. He has devoted over ten years to his solo metal project Autumns Eyes, and most recently opened a Recording and Design Studio under the name Beneath the Woods.

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154 Comments on "Stop Stealing Music: A Musicians Perspective"

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Anonymous Reader
1. Limael writes:

New artists (like myself) need to grow along with the future.
There is no way anyone can stop the downloading and "pirating".
I cannot care less if someone download my stuff. It's just another way to get more known. ESPECIALY when you're a beginner. When you are good enough, you will earn your money by people that support you by buying your album.
BUT keep in mind:
A lot of people first download the stuff to listen/watch it before they buy it. Just because no one has money like water, and if you buy an album and it sucks it's just wasted money.
And don't forget live gigs. As long as artist don't get greedy and charge crazy prizes for a concert you earn enough money with that. As long as you're good enough.
If you charge less: more people will buy/come. If the prizes keeps on raising; no one in the future will pay 1 cent for anything.
It will result in a major loss in bands and good artists. BUT gladfully there a loads of smart progressive artists out there that know how to overcome this and are smart enough to get their (needed) money in another way.

Don't get stuck in the past, but grow along with the future. See the possibilities.
But that's just my view ;)
In stead of spending time moaning about this subject I suggest artists to spend time in making good music, make sure they do promotion for themselves and be glad people like your stuff.
Because isn't it so that every artist wants to make a statement? To make themselves heard? To spread their views, messages and such over the world? And isn't downloading the fastest way to spread this all over the world? And true fans: Will they stick to merely downloading? or do they support by buying an album or going to a concert?
All this moaning about this subject is getting way out of hand and isn't showing artists that are artist but shows people that make music and moan about the missing money.
Get your acts together artists of the world: see the possibilities and start making money, but more important: start making music for your fans. And don't drive away your fans by moaning about the internet and the pirating. It's like a little finger that shakes towards you and a fatherly voice that says: "no you cannot do it, because we don't like it".
And no one likes to be told what to do and what not. Especially not by the ones that makes them rebel with their rebellion music. That's the same as saying: stand up for your rights but when you do we will smite you down.

Again: this is just another view of another artist ;)
Good luck and give it a thought. I know I can be a bit harsh here and there, but it's meant from a good heart.

# May 16, 2012 @ 11:12 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
2. TheAEdemon writes:

1) Never heard of you, but after checking you out from this article, you appear to be a studio project over any live band and that's probably why you're hit the hardest. The bands complaining most are the ones who don't know how to work with dollars and cents.

2) I don't condone stealing music online, but perhaps the point you're working backwards from is all too contemporary, that music is to be paid for. The idea of paying for music is a 20th century invention and might be a dying phenomena. Harsh but true.

3) Half of this is more like blatant self-promotion and sympathy vote for the author's music than any effective commentary or offered solution towards music pirates. I learned nothing new and was swayed in no certain direction from reading this. Sorry.

# May 16, 2012 @ 11:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
3. LegionMMIC writes:

@Limael

You say a lot of things in your comments but you do not provide any solutions other than saying that there are musicians out there that are making money because they have adapted their ways to the "future". Would you care to elaborate on this? I'm sure all the good enough bands out there would like to know.

# May 16, 2012 @ 11:31 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
xFiruath's avatar

Content Manager

4. xFiruath writes:

I've never understood the "I can't afford music" rationalization. If you want to buy two things, but only have enough money for one of them, how is that a valid excuse to steal the second thing? It's only because an MP3 is easier to steal than a physical product that people try to convince themselves it's acceptable.

The "I need to hear it before I buy it" excuse is also rapidly losing relevance when there are services like bandcamp that let you stream the whole album for free before you buy it, or even places like Amazon that let you stream short samples from each song before deciding to purchase.

# May 16, 2012 @ 11:44 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ZMA's avatar

Member

5. ZMA writes:

This was a great read and it all made perfect sense to me. I'm ashamed to admit I occasionally download music. But unlike other people I still purchase CD's and other merchandise for bands I truly support, because I care about this falling music industry. I don't wanna see it collapse the way it has been because of the internet.
This is one of the reasons to pop industry is still reeling in money. Because all it takes is a keyboard, a decent computer and a dude with a voice and they can make even the sh**tiest song sound good and grow in popularity. Meanwhile actually bands who have to purchase instruments and equipment struggle to get it.

Bottom line is this was an inspiring read that makes me think twice about downloading a CD thinking "what's the worst that could happen."

# May 16, 2012 @ 12:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
6. Limael writes:

@LegionMMIC

Well it's a difficult situation, I am the first to admit that. And a global solution for it is also difficult. If I could give a solution that would make everyone happy, I would be rich by now and I would never ever have to moan about this subject ;)
But the internet provides enough untouched possibilities for people like you and me.
Like I said: especially for starting bands it's a great way to get known over the world.
Thereby true fans will always support their favorites by buying albums or go to concerts.
But the greedy music industry is launching prizes trough the roof. It's not funny to go to every single concert of your favorite band because almost no-one with a life can afford it anymore because of the prizes. Reason the industry is giving: because we loose so much over the piracy. Bullcrap in my personal opinion.
If you're good enough and you are good to your fans, they will make sure you get there where you want. If you don't earn enough money, then you must be doing something wrong.
And it's not easy, but that is a good thing: so only the true artists will make it.
Everyone else have to get another dream, or be alright with the things they get now and don't want to get all over the world anymore. If you still want this: you have to improve or change something.
What that is is different per individual and band/artist.

A demo don't have to earn you money: it is a demo about what you're doing and what is coming.
If you start of with asking money for your demo, it's a risk you won't sell a lot because people don't know you yet. And they rather download it and wait for the album to come out. And even then: if it's not what the public or your fans want; they will not buy it. But now at least they will download it and spread it over the world so other people learn to know you and maybe there are a few among them that will like it and buy stuff from you.

Is the early days: if people didn't buy your stuff it stopped there, now you can create an extra chance on a new or bigger fanbase.

Anyone that doesn't still live with mom at home in their little room being angry over everything, knows that we cannot outrun the internet. It's a worldwide thing that got almost unending possibilities. It's up to the artist to find a way to use it in his or her own advantage. Some are more comfortable with it than others, but don't be afraid to ask.
Bands are not competition, they are a union. Look what other bands do, ask them why and how. some will answer some won't. At least you try to grow along, and show other bands you're not here to be "better then them" but to be comfortable in what you make and stand behind it.
Maybe it's all a bit to "flower-power" for some, but believe me, it's not. It's hard as hell. If you are not what people want: you're done for.
But don't start to moan on the "despicable internet piracy"
just because you loose money.
In my opinion it's just trying to find a reason for your loss without looking at yourself first.
I for example found loads of bands by downloading. Loads I never heard of before but were awesome. So I checked that out, bought a few albums, and when I see they are in the neighborhood I would certainly go there and pay for a ticket to see them.
(hope this is a bit of an answer for you ;) )

# May 16, 2012 @ 12:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
7. limael writes:

a short one:

@xFiruath
I download them to listen to them first; I don't always have the time to sit behind my PC and listen carefully to everything an artist makes. So I download, put it on a CD, get into my car and listen. If I like it, I buy it, if I hate it, I will tell others that probably like it and they will listen. if they like it, they buy it.
I admit most people use this all as a way to make it seems "right" to do it, but believe me: a true music-lover will always support!

# May 16, 2012 @ 12:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
zMETALlica's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

8. zMETALlica writes:

I think we still need a fair system of compensating artists while charging the listener/fan less money. spotify/last.fm for example offer money to their artists, but honestly it's hardly enough to make it a living/replace CD sales. either way i rarely download music anymore. I rarely buy music too. most of the time I'm listening to last.fm. if these sites can monetize their user base better and give more money to artists, it would be very beneficial. in the end record sales mean nothing and shouldn't be the way an artist makes money. hell some artists make tons of money without any fans: licensing your music pays very well.

In today's world there are a lot less reasons to pirate than in previous years, but there's also less incentive to buy. An artist who wants to make money off of selling things needs to know their user fanbase and how to take advantage of their hardcore fanbase. the t-shirt/CD deals are becoming quite popular as well as other packages.

In the end the truth is money is made with a day job. full time musicians are far and few between. Over 90% of the bands on MU have day jobs or had day jobs for most of their career even when it seemed they were 'HUGE.' it's all one big facade that is biting the music industry in their ass.

# May 16, 2012 @ 12:46 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
-Metal_Rapture-'s avatar

Member

9. -Metal_Rapture- writes:

I would probably feel the exact same way as a musician working hard to make it to be honest. And limael for all that you wrote I didn't see too many definitive explanations to how your proposals actually work. You only have ideas and deem its fact instead of saying facts to support your ideas. Most of what you rationalize seems like it would only work if you were a premier artist selling out every tour site. But for them to get there in the first place they need money. Of all your options you say are outlets for exposure you fail to mention is that all of those options cost money. You have to put in alot of money hoping for a return on all those ventures, even touring its all very costly. And the largest base that you can/should pull from are album sales, that is your investment money. Without that your not left with too many options for extending your exposure or abilities. You say get with the times, well that is the problem agreed. The extraordinary speed at which the internet and user base has increased over the past two decades has made it very hard to keep up with the amount of information that is transferred over it allowing most things to go unchecked. This is a matter of a advantage over illegal activity has become a common convenience. They need to get with the times and continue finding ways to combat this. Its not your decision whether you get it for free or for a price, only the artist should decide, it is his/her product. I am happy to say I purchase all my music through earshot and iTunes, and I never waste my money because of the conveniences we have nowadays of sampling music before purchasing as firuath said, I know what I'm getting. And on a final note, is music really that expensive anyways?? I think not.

# May 16, 2012 @ 1:08 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
AutumnsEyes's avatar

Podcaster, Writer

10. AutumnsEyes writes:

I added a link to the Kataklysm article so people can get another view from a more well known band.

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=80130

Also, here is a recent quote from Arch Enemy vocalist Angela Gassow on the matter...

"Metal fans stop buying music, they download it 'for free.' Labels don't make money with selling metal music anymore.

Labels first cut down their offices and staff, then they will drop all the artists who don't sell CDs anymore. Metal bands are the first to go. It's a small niche compared to mainstream music.

Bands have no label support anymore, thus won't get any tour support, so they cannot go out and build a live profile / make a name as a good live band anymore. The only real income for a band these days.

This results in lack of touring offers in general.

Many bands cannot survive on touring income anymore as they won't get any good offers. Especially the newer acts. Bands will stop touring, you will only be seeing the same old, big bands coming round (METALLICA, IRON MAIDEN, etc.) but none of your fave smaller/underground acts or new acts, as they simply can not afford it.

If bands can neither release their music nor go out and play live, they'll disband sooner or later due to lack of motivation and any sort of reward.

The metal scene will lose a lot of innovative, exciting and diverse bands and many fans will never get to see their fave bands live. What a boring, corporate, streamlined future to look forward to.

And it's all in YOUR hands. Every time you rip music for free, you tick the 'I don't care if my fave band will die' box in a way.

Think about it. Twice."

# May 16, 2012 @ 1:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

11. BrianMN writes:

The solution is simple, I wait for the whole thing to show up on Youtube, I preview the whole thing and if it's good, I BUY IT. youtube has introduced me to SO many good artists. "Osiris", "Septic", "Project Hate" to name a few. People downloading is laziness and greed.
I can see if the album is discontinued and you CAN'T buy it or people are charging $1,000,000,00. a copy but otherwise...don't be a cheap d**k...buy it or don't gripe when underground music goes away because no one will support it.

# May 16, 2012 @ 1:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

Member

12. R10 writes:

Alot of good points made in this argument. I buy physical copies of my music still;a dying breed. I tend to be far more selective in what i buy now,will listen to cuts on you tube before buying like BrianMN. The biggest problem with the whole "i download,but buy a t-shirt at a show" argument is those particular bands are/were allowed to tour because a label financed thier c.d. that less and less people buy. Its only a matter of time until the entire music industry caves in on itself. Like someone said above,no more tours featuring smaller bands. You think they're going to take a month or so off from thier day jobs to tour on thier dime to sell 15$ t-shirts? Aint gonna happen. Pretty dire strates im afraid for heavy music which is hit hardest by the problem. Oh well..

# May 16, 2012 @ 4:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ZMA's avatar

Member

13. ZMA writes:

It sucks that many people read stuff like this online everyday and then completely disregard it. They just disconnect the thought from themselves and go download more music. I mean the entire music experience has changed anyway. Barely anyone cares about anything else but the music itself.
They don't care about the lyrics, or the cover art, or the form in which the music is brought to you. They only care about if it's online and if you can download it and throw it on their ipods and eventually move on to something else.
And the cycle just repeats over and over again.
The only thing I can do is support the bands I like and make youtube my musical friend lol.

# May 16, 2012 @ 5:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

14. brandedcfh420 writes:

it will never be stopped and if bands don't sell good numbers maybe there is a reason they are not selling good numbers. if a band makes excellent kick a$$ music, cds will sell. if they make piles of donkey crap, its not going to sell big. maybe they need to stop looking at downloaders and look at their music, and maybe there is the problem!

# May 16, 2012 @ 6:42 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

Member

15. R10 writes:

Sorry Branded,i like you an all but i disagree with ya. Straight up tell me dude,if Clutch's next album is killer,thier best ever,do you buy? Or if you can download to save the 13 bucks? Clutch is probably a bad example;they own thier music,self release it,and have a VERY faithfull and loyal following. I mean ive seen Clutch in 5 New England states.

# May 16, 2012 @ 6:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Nunya's avatar

Member

16. Nunya writes:

alright, i have this to say:
Music piracy is an unffortunate fact about the modern music scene and it seems that bands who speak out against it loose more money by pissing off fans who then refuse to buy merchandise and watch youtube videos (giving advertising revenue) than they do by shutting down a few piracy sights that pop back up under different names 2 weeks later. The only way to stop music piracy would be a full-on lock down of the internet by the government. I would personally rather have an internet free of government influence than stop music piracy. However there are other ways to help slow down the rate of music piracy. Legal internet services such as itunes and rhapsody tend to have a much larger and more diverse library of music in one place than most torrent sites (especially now that thepiratebay is shut down). These websites give music pirating web sites its only true competition and if they keep evolving and becoming more appealing to music fans they may one day beat out music piracy for the most part. Until that day, however, music piracy seems to be one of the heaviest prices of internet freedom.

# May 16, 2012 @ 7:00 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
AutumnsEyes's avatar

Podcaster, Writer

17. AutumnsEyes writes:

Branded, by that logic bands like Limp Bizkit should be considered leagues better than Devin Townsend.

# May 16, 2012 @ 7:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

18. brandedcfh420 writes:

AE: only to those who like LB and dislike DT.....

# May 16, 2012 @ 8:23 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
AutumnsEyes's avatar

Podcaster, Writer

19. AutumnsEyes writes:

I still can't fathom your point when you say things like "if they make piles of donkey crap, its not going to sell big." in a society where artists like Justin Bieber outsell Tom Waits.

The Biebers and Brittany's are piles of donkey crap, they are processed pieces of marketing put together by corporations to make money. However, they make the most money. Your statement dictates that these acts should be considered greater than those who don't sell that much.

Twenty years from now, the contributions that the Melvins made to music are going to matter much more than those made by N'Sync.

However, in twenty years we might not see another band like the Melvins because they could never make any money to begin with and pay to support their career. Thats why this is such a bad problem that needs to be changed.

This article has nothing to do with benefiting me or my career. Im a nobody, Im just one of millions. I do, however, have a position where I can reach a lot of people with my opinions. So Im using that position to voice an opinion towards something I strongly believe in.

There are many who agree, and a small few who disagree. Regardless, the article has brought a discussion into the light. Which in turn, was my goal.

# May 16, 2012 @ 9:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
20. Switchbreak writes:

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

For someone calling downloaders entitled, you sure sound like you think you're entitled to my money. Why should I pay $15 for an album that sucks? If I'm going to spend the money that I work hard to earn, then I'm making sure I'm spending it on something good.

Musicians seem to be the only group that expect consumers to lap up whatever they serve up without an idea of quality, and with no recourse for a refund if they are unsatisfied with the product. IF I don't like the new Sonata Arctica album, but I bought it and gave it a spin, I'm screwed because record stores don't take back opened CD's. Why am I taking that risk? I've spent over $2000 on CD's, making my contribution to the talentless fat cats, sitting in the label office, planning new ways to screw us fans out of our hard earned dollar.

I'll continue to use torrents to sample albums and determine if they are worth my time and dollar. I'm sorry if you can't accept people that actually care what they do with their hard earned money.

# May 16, 2012 @ 10:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

Member

21. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

great article autumns eyes...this stuff has been going on forever...I own a copy of Venom's Black Metal on vinyl and on the back it says "home taping is killing music and so is Venom"and that was 30 years ago. I realize that most extreme metal, hardcore and punk musicians play for a very small niche audience who are themselves trying to stay above water during these difficult times. I realize that most musicians in smaller bands have to work sh**ty day jobs just to get the money to tour and record. Thats why i still buy physical music...at 33 years old i guess I prefer something in my hands over downloads...I finally backed up all my Cd's on my itunes. I will check out albums on youtube and if they are good(like the new overkill record for example) I'll drive my a$$ to one of the few remaining music stores and buy the actual CD. Now that I have a kid i have less of a budget for albums and shows, but a band that can put out a good album will always have my support. I wonder how all the illegal downloaders would feel if someone came to their house and took all their albums and concert shirts and then came up with some bullsh** excuse to justify it.

# May 16, 2012 @ 11:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Overlord's avatar

Member

22. Overlord writes:

The situation is extremely simple, and this article failed to bring it all into the light.

Youtube and the internet has changed the entertainment industry by bringing essentially free content to everyone, while still producing a profit with advertisements.

If the music industry fails to adapt to the new standard of content that is out there, their consumers will adapt.

In other words, the music industry will never stop illegal downloads while still asking for 15$/album.

# May 17, 2012 @ 1:26 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
citrus_tea's avatar

Supporter

23. citrus_tea writes:

Being a poor musician is not a new phenomenon. The industry has always been rife with tales of "Where did the money go...".
It used to be the record companies re-couping their investment (and then some..), nowadays there is simply less money to start with (less investment, cheaper sale price).

Most bands barely scrape a living (even those with record deals). So far as I can tell this hasn't changed in 30 years.

# May 17, 2012 @ 1:51 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

Supporter

24. Jackrum writes:

i have in the past downloaded a few songs from an artist i have never heard of, in order to get an idea if i will like the album.
Im not inclined to spend £15 to £20 on an album without any idea if i will actually like it, HMV gets sick of returns.

however i dont go and download an entire discography.

although to counter my arguement, i will quite happily download a copy of Sarco Fago - INRI because im not paying £200 for a cd and it doesnt exist anywhere that isnt ebay.

# May 17, 2012 @ 6:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
25. It's not theft writes:

Downloading is not theft. The original is still there. Now, copying data that you have no right to, that's a different story. However, stop calling it "stealing" when you blatantly DON'T take the original away from everyone else.

# May 17, 2012 @ 8:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

26. brandedcfh420 writes:

::clicks like button for post 20::

AE: the people who waste their money on the bieber/brittany sh!t noise are retards who live trendy, fake, boring lives and think that the noise they listen to is great. we metalheads will disagree everytime though. maybe some of us dont want to buy a cd and have it clutter up our areas with all the other cds we may have bought through the years. the cd age is dying and thats fkn reality!! the digital age is here and everyone who is crying about downloads are too upset that the times they lived through are changing and they can't handle that. human evolution makes or breaks different things and the music industry is the next one in line to fall!!

R10: i will d/l the album and make sure to catch the clutch tour when it comes through charlotte and make sure the band gets money in their hands on tour, which they are hitting charlotte in the next cpl of months....my money goes to the bands directly, and yes i know clutch has their own label. having been out of work for so long has not allowed me to be able to go buy cds. just got hired at a place and will have money comin in, and doesnt mean im goin to buy cds, but it means ill be buying tickets to see the bands live and buy some merch, which, IMO, is the best way to support a band. wether anyone agrees/disagrees with my choices i dont care. im living my life and you live yours and lets all follow Jackie Moon's motto:

EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY..................xxxooo

# May 17, 2012 @ 8:13 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
27. DK writes:

@25
Boy, is that semantics if there ever was any. What a load of crap. I've been hearing that argument around the web lately and all I can relate it to is the lame brain argument about how "if evolution was true, there would be no monkeys today". In other words, there are more than one kind of something, idiot. That goes for theft, too. Goddamn 3rd grader logic.

# May 17, 2012 @ 8:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
28. DK writes:

As said in post 2 and 23, getting paid for selling albums has not always been. Historically musicians were not really paid for anything beyond a performance. Making money off the *recordings* happened in very recent decades, as mass consumerism set in. To assume it's just going to continue that way.... not sure about that.

Although bottom line is, if something has a barcode attached to it, and/or it was meant to be used in commerce and bought, yet you took one in some way for free, then you have stolen it. Period.

# May 17, 2012 @ 8:41 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
29. liver rott writes:

what about buying used cds? the artist does not make money on these either and it is not stealing... i do not download music but i do buy a lot of used cds unless its one of my favorite artists. though even still i have been stung a few times and prefer to view on youttube first. even a favorite artist can put out crap every once in a while.

# May 17, 2012 @ 9:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
30. xXcru3ltyXx writes:

From the editorial: "I used to be one of them, and I'm ashamed to admit it. I downloaded hordes of music in the past, and never thought twice about doing so. It wasn't until I began selling my own music when I realized what a shameful display of greed this epidemic has become."

Probably the most valuable line out of an otherwise redundant essay (no offense). I mean that really says it all. "Takes one to know one" basically. There are more music listeners than bands making the effort to do what they love for a living. Majority rules and it ain't always right.

# May 17, 2012 @ 10:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
31. Arnian writes:

I can't understand why you lot bother discussing this, it's like a religious discussion, where noone EVER gets persuaded they might have been wrong.

# May 17, 2012 @ 1:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

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32. Jackrum writes:

seriously anyone got sarco fago inri????

:P

# May 17, 2012 @ 3:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
KanadianKoRn's avatar

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33. KanadianKoRn writes:

I just downloaded Autumn eyes album from torrentz.com :)


jk...but seriously they only money that should be earned is for live shows..in my opinion

# May 17, 2012 @ 4:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Nunya's avatar

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34. Nunya writes:

all you punk a$$ b****es that say blatant dumbsh** sputterings like, "well im not taking the original away", and "musicians never made money on albumns, its been this way for 30+ years", come talk to me when you learn to play an instrument and join a f***ing band

# May 17, 2012 @ 5:34 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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35. Netromancer writes:

I have to ask because I use the program. (And please, this is in no way snarky, sarcastic, or out of smugness. Sorry, it's the internet and things get twisted in the reading) What are your thoughts on Spotify, Dan? I notice "The Awakening of the Sleeping King" is available on Spotify and what (if any) kind of recompense you see from that? My main reason is that Spotify talks about Piracy like it's the Anti-Christ, but a Spotify user can use their program for free and listen to whatever artist allows them to feature their music. For a program that claims to be for the artist, are they actually?

# May 18, 2012 @ 12:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
citrus_tea's avatar

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36. citrus_tea writes:

^^Nunya. Assumption is the mother of all f***-ups.
You seem to assume that people posting have never played in a band, just because we don't all bang on about it 24x7.
As for 30+ years - I can't help having a memory that goes all the way back to the 70's.

# May 18, 2012 @ 3:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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37. brandedcfh420 writes:

excellent point Netro!!

# May 18, 2012 @ 8:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
IrishMetal's avatar

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38. IrishMetal writes:

In regards to post 19 - Dan/AE, regarding your statement that the Melvins contribution will matter more in the long run, how can that be quantified? I mean, sure it affects our musical tastes, and influences up and coming bands, but that is (as you also said) a niche market.

In comparison, N'sync affected countless kids over several years as part of the culture of the day. Sure, they die out fast as most "popular" music does, but their impact at the time was far greater than most Metal is or will be, reaching millions across the globe. Metal endures for the fans, but doesn't really affect anyone outside that demographic. Rap music is a very different example, it's hugely popular, and though most Metal fans don't like it, a lot of it can be good, and it undeniably influences the culture of today, albeit most often in a negative fashion.

Also, (and I don't like this argument much myself) if a new band is that passionate about their music, they can record an album relatively cheaply, then saturate the internet and gain a following and support for tours etc through that. For instance, look at "Design the Skyline" - that utterly sh**e band garnered nothing but hate for a long time, but as everyone shared this ridiculous band around, it found the odd fan and actually succeeds in some twisted fashion.

Yes, pirating is not what a fan should be doing (except as a preview), but music as an actual career is rarely going to be easy (don't need to tell you that though). That's also due, in part, to the way the music business is structured I believe. Blame goes all ways in my opinion.

# May 18, 2012 @ 9:29 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
CorpusUpir's avatar

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39. CorpusUpir writes:

There is very many valid points made here, but the bottom line is we (the fans) are killing our favorite bands . There are so many ways to preview/listen to an album now before you but it from myspace to soundcloud . The thing is everytime we buy an album we help pay for the recording, packaging , and distrobution costs . Without us buying the albums we bankrupt a band . Going to the show is a great way to support the band as well , but as stated above no record sales mean lower pay to the musician that is giving there all for you. I know many bands that only get payed 200 bucks a gig and have 5 members do the math and thats 40 bucks each oh wait then theres your gas to get to the next gig well that could be easily $100 well I guess that means each member makes 20 bucks a gig which we all make in 1 to 3 hours. So how are they supposed to pay their rent and bills? I've been a promoter and a musician for a while and it takes months of hard work and savings to go on tour let alone get enough merch to sell and a recording to be heard and I am not going to pay through the a$$ for a band that no one knows. If everyone downloaded it and I heard of them I still won't pay much cuz if people aren't buying the albums then how do I know they(fans) are going to buy a ticket. I have downloaded music to be honest cuz it's easy and at my finger tips , but I stopped cuz I realized I was destroying lives. Bands work hard and a lot harder than you think to promote , write , record , and tour. They do it for us and we spit in there face while smiling.

# May 18, 2012 @ 10:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
citrus_tea's avatar

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40. citrus_tea writes:

Corpus, I agree with much of what you say.
But it is worth mentioning that the "piracy=lost revenue" equation is complex.
1000 "ex-pirates" are not going to become 1000 paying customers if illegal downloads were not an option.
So even if piracy is irradicated completely, it does not follow that there will be a corresponding increase in sales.

# May 18, 2012 @ 11:10 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

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41. Jackrum writes:

i just find it funny that he had no issue stealing music and denying money from other artists but now it affects him we have a damn discussion page...

# May 19, 2012 @ 6:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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42. brandedcfh420 writes:

exactly jackrum...

# May 19, 2012 @ 7:42 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
43. i'm illegallly downloading right now writes:

trolLOLOLOL, i'm illegally downloading your songs autumnseyes. YOU mad?

# May 19, 2012 @ 9:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

44. hellrat writes:

I got one for all the sniffy nosed, teary eyed, 'struggling' musicians out there (not singling out the author):

GET A FVCKING JOB

Pretty fvckin simple. You find a way to pay the bills, you make music because you love it and because it is part of who you are, and you resist the temptation to indulge your goddamned self pity :)

# May 19, 2012 @ 1:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
45. hellrat is a child writes:

^ This dipsh** has no talent worth dedicating the time to and therefore has no idea how long songwriting and making records can take, or what the desire is to do what makes you happy to survive (just like anybody else's right). :)

# May 19, 2012 @ 6:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
46. branded/jackrum = flawed logic writes:

@41 and 42
As if that invalidates the author's entire argument. Grow up.

Seriously, branded, even just judging by your stupid picture it's obvious you're a f**king nitwit, you leave a trail or moronic coments left and right on this website, that I only recall are you because of that faggy picture I see, always is accompanied by some idiotic drivel. G0ddamn you must be a stuttering moron irl.

# May 19, 2012 @ 6:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
47. ^ writes:

Thank you! Branded is a narrow minded a$$hole. Everyone knows this though. He also is a biggot and any other unwanted vice I can think of

# May 19, 2012 @ 6:58 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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48. brandedcfh420 writes:

aw ^ couldnt put a name. typical of the cowardly trolls to come in and attack someone. say what you want, i laugh, and will continue to d/l music and movies. i dont care what anyone thinks of me, and never will.
,l,,(**),,l, hahahahahahaha

# May 19, 2012 @ 11:08 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

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49. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

don't be too hard on branded guys...he has to pirate everything cuz an evil joo conspiracy led by jewcifer and myself forces him to be poor and stupid, therefore he can not afford things like cd's, box sets, vinyl albums, or toothpaste. Its not fair to make fun of semi-literate inbred trash who don't know any better.. hey branded at least autumn eyes is making music and writing articles for metalunderground...not just spreading dark ages style jew hatred around the site. I'd love to your thoughts on black folks and mexicans...some of them like metal too from what I've been led to believe

# May 20, 2012 @ 12:43 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
WOLF7's avatar

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50. WOLF7 writes:

We can debate this one forever and ever and I know we will, but the reality of the situation is, downloading is here and it's never going away. Period.

You can tell people to not download, but people always will. Always. The only thing an artist can do is try to shut down download links, but it really doesn't matter cos new links will pop up within days, if not hours.

No, of course it's not right, but this is just how it is. As long as we have internet, we have people downloading, whether it's legally or illegally. So it goes.

# May 20, 2012 @ 1:39 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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51. brandedcfh420 writes:

cmon dixie, do better than that.....that was a funny post. if you are trying to upset me or hurt my feelings, i laugh at your weak pathetic try at insulting me.

as for the blacks and mexicans, as long as they act like civilized humans and dont run around screaming kill whitey, or come into this country illegally (people of all colors) and live on the taxpayer dollar, then i have no probs with them. seriously dixie, does your day revolve around trolling me here?

# May 20, 2012 @ 7:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
52. Mark Jameson writes:

^ Gotta laugh at a douchebag like this who writes off the others as "trolls" and yet offers nothing but the most pathetic trolling him self. Sad part is: I don't think they're trolling........
And hell, you look mexican yourself. Interesting. Guys like you never amount to anything noteworthy, which is why you need to bark sh*t like that for attention, it's all you got.

# May 20, 2012 @ 11:40 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

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53. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

its called sarcasm... i don't need to insult you...because as a "nazi joo evil conspiracy mastermind" I already run the world media and financial system from my two bedroom apartment...at least you can appreciate humor somewhat so maybe we will leave you alive to slave in our bagel factories after we take over the world. Give me some credit for being an official member and not just trolling anonymously...I think its sad you can't shell out 15-20 bucks for a cd from a good band...I have the expense of a kid and i manage to scrape it up somewhere...you think jews are cheap bastards but your cheaper and stingier with your illegal downloads than any of us will ever be.

# May 20, 2012 @ 11:46 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

Member

54. R10 writes:

Dixiescum,you gotta ease up on the debit card user fees,bro. I know you need to make a buck,but you're bleeding me,trying to take over the world and all.:-)

# May 20, 2012 @ 12:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

55. brandedcfh420 writes:

wow another faceless internet nobody has to come and rag on me to feel better about their day....cmon, what else ya got?! lets get off the topic of the article to attack me....cmon, im ready....

# May 20, 2012 @ 12:11 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

56. wilco writes:

hahaa do love all the trolls who are hiding behind a facelees image become a member of the mu than you got the right and insult branded

about the down loading thing i did never down load or steal any form of music or movies pay for it peopel
and if you want to hear some music got sit in a record store wher i do buy my music if i am in europe you can sit down and even drink a beer afther that buy it or just leave yes indeed the music sceene is hurting bad
from stealing music so pay for it even if you down load at least pay for it i still music yeah i might be a dying breed but at least i support the bands and recordstores do think its freaking lame a$$ downloading and sharing files
but on the end the record companys waited to long to fix the problem down loading they did know it will arive down loading but hey now its to late
they should had reacted faster on this isue

people buy cd dont f***ing steal it

# May 20, 2012 @ 12:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

Member

57. R10 writes:

Good post wilco! If every metalhead was supportive like you(me also),this wouldnt be such an issue. Dixie,how much per hour at your bagel factory? I might be interested;im sick of the job i currently work at.

# May 20, 2012 @ 2:23 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
btbamfav20's avatar

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58. btbamfav20 writes:

it took Autumns Eyes 4 years to write Please Deceive Me, and it SUCKS so badly... maybe people wouldn't download your music if the music was good. I own every single decapitated album. Why? Because its great music. i would never purchase any Autumns Eyes because its sh**.

NP: Sons Of Fenris - Watch Me Bleed

# May 20, 2012 @ 4:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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59. brandedcfh420 writes:

^ ouch............

# May 20, 2012 @ 6:14 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

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60. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

@R10...sorry about debit card user fees...i don't really control the global financial system so there really isn't too much i can do about it...we chosen people don't really trust plastic computer money...use cash instead...also I don't really own a bagel factory but i would totally hire you if I did. Also branded, I would put my pic up but I don't know how...us bronze age christ killing savages from the desert haven't quite mastered it yet. I had no intention of trolling branded but when i see his stupid face dripping more verbal diarrhea i felt a moral obligation to respond. Wilco has the right idea but Europe has much more of a support structure for metal than we do here in the states. Its probably hard for some people in the middle of the country to even find a record store, let alone afford the gas to drive to one. Branded, if you weren't a jew hating a$$hole I wouldn't sh** talk you...you started this on the gwar thread by blaming me personally for things far beyond my control, whether its the situation in the middle east or the global financial system meltdown...i'm just another metalhead like you trying to make it in this f***ed up world. Having a hook nose (cuz air is free) and a circumcised pecker doesn't make me the mastermind of the international joo conspiracy. I'll be the bigger person and try to put this behind us if you'll stop spouting off with bigoted nonsense..sound like a fair deal?

# May 20, 2012 @ 6:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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61. brandedcfh420 writes:

i never blamed you personally for jack sh1t!!!! i was saying the jews in israel and washington d.c. take it however you want, but i never said you were responsible for jack.....fkn nazi!!

# May 20, 2012 @ 6:58 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

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62. R10 writes:

Dixie,damn dude,let it go dude! Im English,Scots-Irish,a lousy,cheap tipper! Make fun of me. Damn guys,its a metal website,lets talk metal!

# May 20, 2012 @ 7:02 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

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63. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

R10...we never let anything go and we remember insults and abuse for centuries. Branded..fyi real nazis don't sh** talk people on the internet...they shoot them in the back of the head, gas them in showers or burn them alive in ovens. When you blame jews in Israel your basically blaming my dad's side of the family for having the desire to live on their own land. If your really want to know why I get so heated its because my grandmother was born in the Ukraine in 1930...when the real Nazis(not the interwebz trash talkers) invaded her village they ripped the earrings right out of her earlobes and beat her father in front of her before they had to flee for the lives thru a war zone to soviet lines after escaping from a death march into the forest to be machine gunned into a mass grave. My grandfather fought at the battle of stalingrad and when he came home after the war his home had been confiscated by the KGB and all his entire family had been murdered(not internet insulted). Also, my wife's mother was born in Terezin( a labor camp in Czechoslavakia) and her uncle was imprisoned in Sobibor, one of the most infamous camps in Poland after Auschwitz. As far as DC goes branded, there's a lot more christian politicians than jewish ones to blame for America's current mess and I feel that a lot of religious fanatics in the states encourage the most backward religious fanatics in Israel to start speeding up the apocalypse, but thats a whole other discussion. That said, we both like this site so we should be able to tolerate each other. If anything branded, I feel sorry for you. People like bigotry because its easier to instantly judge people good or bad based upon religion or skin color when its usually a lot more complicated. Also, branded, us heebs know that we will always catch the blame for hard times, it is no different today than 80 years ago during the last great depression or 800 years ago during the Black Plague. I'll be the bigger person and forgive. For what its worth i like lots of German thrash (destruction, kreator, sodom) and German beer. There's a really good book called the holocaust by bullets that might change your perspective on stuff.

# May 20, 2012 @ 8:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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64. brandedcfh420 writes:

ok, forgive all you want, you started this flame in this thread, not me.....just because i said something aboiut jews means im automatically an intolerant bigot...typical of the facist jew mind to call someone a bigot for speaking out in a free speech society. those "christian" politicians you speak of have been bought out by jewish lobbyist who are doing israels bidding. feel sorry for me all you want, i laugh at it.

/closed

# May 20, 2012 @ 8:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

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65. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

again branded...believing in jewish conspiracies to rule the world is pretty much the mark of an anti-semitic bigot. Its right up there with thinking we have horns and tails or murder christian babies to use the blood for matzah. Fortunately, the only part of the world where this line of reasoning is taken seriously at all are various and sundry sh** holes like Egypt and Pakistan. Yes there is a jewish lobby in america, but how much influence do you think they have compared to the oil lobby? the insurance lobby? the senior citizen lobby? are we the only ethnic group not allowed to participate in american democracy? as far as your previous experiences with our tribe maybe they sensed the jew-hatred dripping from you a mile away and f***ed you over because of that. Don't ever ask to borrow a nickel from this shylock because I'll charge you 300% interest with collateral. We don't really try to make friends with people who hate us. My dad told me a story one day a long time ago about a jewish guy who went to a restaurant and heard the waiter make an anti-semitic comment...he bought the restaurant before his meal came out and had the waiter fired on the spot. We have endured on this planet for 3,000 years and watched many powerful kings, nations and empires come and go. I support your right to the most idiotic hateful speech imaginable, but I will also exercise my right to free speech to keep you from turning this place into stormfront.org. Metal is a global family beyond race, religion, skin color or nationality...feel free to hate the jewish sh**bags in the financial system, so do I, but hate them for being sh**bags, not for having last names that end in stein, berg or witz. I hate arab terrorists, not for being arabs, but for killing innocent people for a stupid cause. Also fascism is being numbered against your will in a death camp or being locked into a starving disease infested ghetto in Warsaw or Krakow...not someone disagreeing forcefully with you on a message board. Honestly dude if i could afford it I would send you an a vacation to Israel and the middle east just so you could realize that its the only halfway decent country in that part of the world. Have you ever seen any part of the rest of the world outside of north carolina? I have and thats why i feel sorry for you...there's a big awesome world out there beyond your stereotypes....that you'll never get to enjoy.

# May 20, 2012 @ 9:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

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66. R10 writes:

Damn,dixie,300% on a loaned nickel? Damn,those are enticing terms. This should put an end to this debate. Its not easy to read on a metal website. True story: In July of 85,i met a guy named Scott Rosenthal,i asked him what the NY/HC sticker meant on his guitar. His answer opened my eyes and ears to A/F,Cro Mags,Leeway,and Murphys Law. Cool dude Scott of Anthrax was. /thread

# May 20, 2012 @ 10:15 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DixieSkumLord666's avatar

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67. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

R10 once again prevails as MU's voice of reason...NYHC is awesome...i have an angry skull face statue of liberty shooting the bird on tattooed on my left leg with NYHC underneath it. Its cool you got to meet scott ian way back when he still had hair. Murphy's Law and Warzone were always my favorites. My one b**** about living in Florida is the fact that there is almost no punk/HC bands that tour or play down here. Probably one of the things i miss most about NY. Also R!0 because you are cool and awesome i'll lend you a whole dollar at only 20% without collateral lolz...sorry about my flame wars with branded but people who blame all of america and the world's problems on less than 2% of the population get me angry. Not all of us are Rothschilds or Warburgs or Zuckerbergs or Madoffs. I'll mosh with anyone regardless of race or religion...if you like metal and are a halfway decent person your cool with me whether your white, black, red, brown or yellow. I bet even me and branded could settle our differences in the real world over a few pints of stout if you were around to moderate.

# May 20, 2012 @ 10:36 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
R10's avatar

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68. R10 writes:

Alright dixie,correction: it was July of 86 at the Paridise in Boston. Boston's Straw Dogs opened for Anthrax. I was a senior in high school. Scott signed my ticket stub,chatted with me for a few minutes. Cool guy,yes he had a full head of hair,bushy unibrow,and was alot shorter than me.;-) we all visit the site for metal dixie,no need for the other b/s in my opinion.

# May 20, 2012 @ 10:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
69. coaster writes:

the #1 thing bands need to do is market themselves in a way that brings them money and support from other means than selling their songs/albums.

Bands also need a killer live show - people who like bands, generally love a live show. Without the lights, smoke machines to get the crowd going, you wont go anywhere.(usually). There are exceptions to this, but normally you need to be able to put on a hell of a live show to get anywhere.

Piracy is not going anywhere - I download alot of music, however anytime a band I like is in my area for a show, I am in the crowd after spending my hard earned cash and I usually buy a shirt or something from their shop as I know this helps them usually more than buying songs off itunes or their album. Bands need to make up different stuff though. Metal bands seem to all have the same take that they have their band name that you cannot read, and a pictures of skulls devils etc etc. Make something different and you WILL sell it as all that other stuff has already been done by thousands of other bands.

Here in Australia you have have even less chance of making money being in a band, let alone being in a metal band. You'll always be paying your own way etc etc. But you have to get a decent manager, or do the managing yourself to get yourself as a support act for well known metal acts to get your name out there. Its simple business - thats the way people like OZZY & Metallica are as big as they are cause of the relentless hrs from themselves and their promotors to get them known by everyone. Yes you also have to have music that is exceptional and nothing like what anyone else is doing to make a living. Way to many bands expecting to make a living from writing crappy music that sounds just like the last crappy band

# May 20, 2012 @ 11:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
WOLF7's avatar

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70. WOLF7 writes:

Loads of good points, coaster.

The band logo / name thing is a very valid point: when I look at the way bands like A Job For a Cowboy write their name, I honestly wouldn't know what the hell it says if I didn't actually know what it says.

Another thing that bothers me in metal right now is some sort of standardization (is that a word?) meaning, howcome bands need to follow trends, and especially in metal? Seems to me that it's like there are these rules every metal band has to follow these days.

Chimaira's Age Of Hell is a perfect example of the "standardization" I'm talking about:
They're a great band, the playing, the groove, the production, all great on that album.
BUT, the topics and the riffing, vocal styles are so directly off the "metal dictionary" that I can't listen to that album. That album is so, so predictable that it's annoying.

On the touring and promotion issue, Mastodon released a true masterpiece 'Crack The Skye', toured it to death and to date the album's sold around 300000 worldwide.
They had the complete package: A great album full of great music by any standards, a major label support plus they toured the album over 12months easy.
So, all that to reach sales of 300000 albums.

Clearly A LOT has changed in the music industry...

# May 21, 2012 @ 2:20 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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71. brandedcfh420 writes:

dixie: ive been coast to coast in this country. ive lived in cities where jews ran things like the nazis did in the 30s. they acted like they were gods gift to humanity and treated their non jewish employees like trash. i would never want to step foot in israel due to the nazi mentality of the facist religous zealots that are in power there. israel is guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity, but since its israel, then i guess its ok since they have been treated so bad through history....yea typical of the backwards thinking of the facist jews in israel. murder people for a piece of land. when israel evolves into the 21st century and stops their murder campaign against the palestinians, maybe ill stop smack talking their nazi ideals. ive been with a black woman before sexually and if i was single i would be with numerous other women of all colors so your bigot comment is null and void. you can call me what you want, i laugh. if you want to call me a bigot because i said something about a group of people, then go ahead, i still laugh. anything else? btw, the band i roadie for isnt making much money. when they gave me their cds, i put them in my folders for people to d/l. they are ok with it because it allows people to get to hear them and go to sites to order the cd. bands need to stop with the trendy follow the popular band mold and become their own thing and maybe people would buy their cds more often. finally, i do not think we could settle our differences over beer since i dont drink. i do love good debates and good green smoke though!!

coaster: good point about bands making the same music as other bands. that seems to be the thing these days. sound and look like a certain band and maybe we will sell millions. hahahahah, how they learned the hard way. excellent post coaster!!

# May 21, 2012 @ 7:50 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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72. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

first off branded, you may want to learn how to spell fascist correctly. Second, even the worst American cities like Detroit or Camden are way better than anything run by the nazis in the 30's...Nobody in America has been conscripted for forced labor or shot dead in the street by police or the army because of their ethnicity or had their house bombed by a stuka plane. The middle east issue is a complex one and blaming one side or the other for everything thats happened over the last 100 years is foolish. If israel is guilty of genocide as you claim why are there still so many f***ing arabs throwing rocks and blowing stuff up? You do realize that Israel could destroy every last person and building in the west bank and gaza in under a week if they wanted to, but choose not to. Read the history of some of the countries surrounding Israel and you'll see that the harshest anti-terror tactics Israel uses makes them look like p***ycats in comparison. Also, I hope you realize that since 1948 far more arabs have been killed in arab on arab violence like the Lebanese civil war, the Iran-Iraq conflict and the invasion of Kuwait than at the hands of Israel. I'm sorry my relatives don't allow themselves to be murdered so the world can have a 23rd muslim toilet country. I also enjoy the green leaf. I'll be the first person to admit that the Israeli government does stupid counterproductive things, just like the Palestinian Authority or any other government in the region. I think fighting over religion and rocks and stones and olive trees is stupid, that's why I live in America. Ponder this branded, if the arabs put down their weapons there would be peace, if Israel put down her weapons, it would be the most epic slaughter since the days of the mongol horde...go read some arab newspapers from 1948...they promised to finish the job the nazis stared by murdering every jew in Israel and throwing the bodies into the sea and they've been working hard at that ever since. Once they realized we couldn't be beaten militarily they started a pretty effective propaganda campaign, saying that Israel is either like nazi germany or apartheid south africa. The only problem is that arabs actually serve in israel's parliament, have state pensions and more rights and freedoms than anywhere else in the Middle East. Yes there have been excesses and mistakes made in the past 64 years, but no country at war has a perfect human rights record. I don't think we're perfect or beyond criticism but when you single out Israel for special criticism over and above all the other heinous regimes around it and claim that we're all involved in some sort of diabolical plot to rule the world it makes you look like an ass. If we're all so smart and evil and clever how come we don't already rule the world?...we've had 3000 years to do it. I wish me and my wife ran the media and global financial system from my two bedroom apartment, that I could grab a billion or two fresh off the printer...unfortunately I don't. Your problem seems to be with religious fanatics and political a$$holes, two things every ethnic and religious group has in spades. All i'm asking you is to remember that there are some pretty cool people of jewish descent like myself, scott ian and evan seinfeld. We're not all scumbag bankers or politicians. Most of us are just trying to work, pay our bills and raise our kids to be good people. We're not all stabbing the communion crackers or plotting to take over the world. If your uploading the cd's of the band you roadie for thats your business and theirs. My rant against illegal downloading applies to cheap bastards who enjoy a bands music but can't ever shell out for it. For what its worth branded if I was in charge of Israel i would order a full withdrawal from the west bank. The vast majority on both sides believe in a 2 state solution, but there is a small minority of fanatics on both sides who screw it up every time it gets close(like the peace talks under Clinton back in the 90's). Its a complex issue thats not as black and white as you make it.

# May 21, 2012 @ 9:33 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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73. brandedcfh420 writes:

lets take this conversation somewhere else. whats an email i can send to?

# May 21, 2012 @ 10:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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74. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

not sure if I want to give you my email because i'm pretty sure I'll just get an awesome virus that wipes out my hard drive.

# May 21, 2012 @ 10:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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75. Jackrum writes:

this is like what muppets think any thread about burzum is

# May 21, 2012 @ 10:26 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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76. wilco writes:

poeple let stick to the music
all the bullsh** about jews nazi and rasism
well do think we all are bad in some form or what and critezise othe races
me have to admit once a while i am racist as well
damm come live on a isalnd you wil ltalk different afther a year
any way my grandpa did get forced in to the waffen ss
or other wise get shot a dutch part of the german army
any way did this make my familie nazi no most of them where in the dutch resistenc and di fight the germans
but we can not blame all germans or jews there are some good ones and bad ones
any way what about the amaricans you where bad against the native indians and untill today you all are proud that the homos do get qeual rights now the native indians are still fighting to get the land back and the money the supose to get
oops soory my amarican friends that i bring this up

any way stick to the most importan t part metal

# May 21, 2012 @ 10:47 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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77. brandedcfh420 writes:

seriously dude, im not a hacker like that...if you feel safer, create a dummy email accnt and let me know....you keep assuming so much about me and you are so wrong about it. you want to chat, then lets chat seperately from here about it......

# May 21, 2012 @ 11:10 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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78. Necropolis writes:

What is interesting is that we used to pay for records and cd's so what has changed? Just the availability of free music and the price of cd's? My guess is that people are willing to pay less than we did 5 years ago.

I don't disagree that the industry will need to find ways to maintain profitability when it does sell records, but we have clearly identified that $12-$15 for a cd is too much. Are we willing to spend $10?

I do also appreciate the comments about not wanting to waste money if you don't like the album. So what did you do 5 years ago? What did you do before the internet? Did you buy albums and suffer through them if they weren't as good? I think it is that we have become ADD with how many records can come out. My guess is that content has increased and so people move on faster meaning they are spending more frequently.

This is the total fundamental shift as the user now has more freedom of choice than the seller or record labels had. What is really sad is if you think of how many hours that a musician pours into a record and then figure the profit you make on it, my guess is that recording artists are probably some of the lowest paid people of all, excluding any income they can earn while recording. I think the expectations for artists should be that you are doing this as a labor of love rather than a sensible life career. Metal artists probably have the most difficult time sustaining longevity solely because demand is far less. The starving artist may be completely different in Metal than it is in Country.

In general the solution doesn't lie in this forum it really lies in the user as we are clearly the ones driving the demand and supply is only trying to keep up with our insatiable appetites.

# May 21, 2012 @ 1:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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79. wilco writes:

well in the past or still right now you do go to a recordstore and lissen to the cd you want to buy so you dont like it leave it be and move on

but my concern is the down loading part and yes besides working in the toursit buisniss hahaha a musician can bearly survive of the music he makes
thats why most bands can not afort to go on tour any more and nowadays they have a normal job to support the life and pay the bills
to make it short indeed they put lots of their money in to a record a studio is not that cheap and even most the things are done at their home they still need the studio to finish the album so now here it is as soon if one person buys the album and i support that

that person puts it on some kind of site for free down loading and here its where i do get the problem with it its the sharing of files so themusician does not make any money even with support of a label going on tour most the time puts a artist in major financial problems so if you do like that band or their new record please buy it so you support the band

thats why lars ulrich had a problem with napster its not the doenloading but please pay for it like itunes
me i still like the cd in my hand and nowadays you can buy a cd with lots of cool stuff

indeed this forum will not change this but hey its our opinion

# May 21, 2012 @ 3:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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80. brandedcfh420 writes:

im taking it as dixie is not wanting to talk elsewhere about it.....figures........

# May 21, 2012 @ 9:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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81. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

actually i had to go the dentist today so was out for a while and doing baby stuff most of the rest of the day...perhaps we should go to the other discussion area in the forums...also was busy counting all my filthy joo money fresh off the printer...1 billion, 2 billion, 3 billion ah f*** it a billion for everybody on metal underground...even you branded. what denomination you want 20's, 50's or 100's ? Despite our disagreement on this thread i wholeheartedly agree with your post on the Marduk news item. I never realized Belarus was so religious...always thought that Ireland, Spain, Poland and Italy were the most catholic/religious parts of Europe.

# May 21, 2012 @ 10:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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82. The return of...... writes:

Sorry branded but you lose this one. Then again i'm a joo as well so I'm biased.... maybe it's a trap and me and dixiscumlord are plotting to take over metalunderground.com less the world

# May 21, 2012 @ 11:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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83. Overlord writes:

You guys ruined a half decent discussion with your childish bullsh**, well done lads!

# May 22, 2012 @ 12:46 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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84. Jackrum writes:

the retardation level of this thread has become astounding..

its not even funny anymore

# May 22, 2012 @ 7:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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85. brandedcfh420 writes:

im not the one who ruined this one....ol dixie came in attacking me along with the other faceless troll...and yet im looked at like its my fault as usual..........

# May 22, 2012 @ 8:06 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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86. brandedcfh420 writes:

now downloading - metallica/lou reed: lulu

# May 22, 2012 @ 8:15 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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87. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

you will be disappointed severely branded...not worth downloading even for free.

# May 22, 2012 @ 9:14 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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88. brandedcfh420 writes:

im actually listening to it just to see how horrible it is...ive made it through 3 songs and had to turn it off from laughing so hard at the absolute and utter patheticness of it...maybe they were all smokin crack during this session!!!

# May 22, 2012 @ 9:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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89. wilco writes:

well said overlord
jack rum you are right but retards are cool they seem to be happy all the time
anyway stick to the real forum

# May 22, 2012 @ 9:33 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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90. CorpusUpir writes:

A) this should be about downloading music not everything but.
B) branded why the hell would you even download that worthless peice of trash !

As far as the disscusion goes I truly enjoy Autumns Eyes and don't look at his points as whinning they are his way of showing the artists/bands perspective. Downloading is a great way to find new artists , but so is Youtube, Soundcloud, countless others , and our very own MU gives us reviews to seach for these new bands. We can preview a whole album on many sites before purchasing it now , so we don't need to waste money just search it before ya buy it. Many people seem to think buying merch goes straight into the bands pocket, but it doesn't on many occasions when labels are involved. Before everyone starts going off about not giving the man money , THE MAN is who funded that band to record, buy/design merch , distribute it , and most likly gives tour support in some manner. If they don't see money coming in to recoup their losses the band is dropped. If you wanna see more money as a band the DIY thing can work , but you'll have a hell of a hard go. The best idea for a new band that was told to me by the owner of Seasons of Mist is to get a distrobution contract from the label which does mean 1 2/3 is DIY and the label helps with the rest. A great example of a horrible band that makes a ton of money this way is Nickelback (sorry for typing that horrible name) . Like I said before as well without sales or some freak chance that promoters around the globe love your demo/album they recently downloaded have fun getting gigs that pay let alone pay enough that you have a home to go back too. I have payed $60 for a special edition of Blind Guardian's Imaginations from the other side album and that album felt worth it and you all might think that ridicoulous, but I loved that album and I still do! Buying an album makes it special downloading it makes it just another album for this week/day.

# May 22, 2012 @ 9:40 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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91. brandedcfh420 writes:

corpus: i decided to check it out and actually see what the whole thing was like...after 3 songs and almost pissing my pants from laughing, i turned it off....ill start it up again in a bit.....

# May 22, 2012 @ 10:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
92. Jacob Mendelsohn writes:

I totally agree with you. It's your work and your property and you should be able to decide where it goes. If you're an artist and want to make your work free, then by all means go ahead. But if you want to charge for it, no one should be able to tell you otherwise. Just because people can't afford it and thinks it should be free doesn't mean they have the right to steal it and make it free.

Like I said in an article I wrote, stealing your album is like stealing your inventory of cellphones if you were a cell phone distributor. People cannot break into your warehouse and steal cell phones because they can't afford their own cell phone. In the same way, people are breaking into virtual warehouses and stealing albums and giving it away for free. This is true theft in every sense of the word and must be stopped.

If you're interested in knowing more about this issue, read my article below:

http://infinitynewsnetwork.com/2012/05/07/the-pirated-states-of-america/

# May 22, 2012 @ 10:31 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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93. James P writes:

Look, I sympathize with you as far as the loss in revenue is concerned but I don't empathize. This has probably been mentioned above but bears re-mentioning: There has been a massive paradigm shift over the last decade or so in the way that people consume music. The reason why record sales have plummeted is due primarily to the mismanagement of the majors with regards to the "new technology". The record industry is notorious for being late adopters of technology.

(in fact, ironically, "new technologies" used on an album are a reason the labels use to pay artists less...")

Those artists who have recognized that albums are essentially promotional products to get asses in seats for shows (where they also have the opportunity to sell merchandise including "special editions" etc.) have prospered.

The complaints against online downloads are similar to the complaints made by American Composer John Phillip Souza around the turn of the 20th century. He complained that the advent of the Victrola and Gramophone would result in the human species losing the use of their vocal chords. He was convinced that with records available, people would choose this passive method over playing and singing songs...He was wrong...You likely are too in that P2P is not the "vocal chord killer" you think it is.

I understand that prima facie P2P seems like a bunch of lazy entitled bums who don't respect property rights. But it might be time to consider that P2P file sharing is here to stay...you can b**** about it, or you can harness it to your advantage. The choice is yours. Frankly, I would go with the latter.

# May 22, 2012 @ 10:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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94. wilco writes:

i do agree file sharing will be around it will never leave but still i do believe buy a cd its more fun
and dont be a cheap a$$ down loading music

and i do agree with post 90 i will pay more money for a cd if its a special edition because i do like that band
and yes the record companys did see it coming but they did not react on it so on the end there will be no more record stores due to miss managent do think its a shame maybe i will be long gone but will turn over in my grave thinking about it and yes i wil buy cd untill there is no more if you suport buy the music dont steal

# May 22, 2012 @ 11:09 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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95. CorpusUpir writes:

Well branded prepare to sh** next cuz I tried and couldn't do it. God that was aweful. As far as file sharing it will probaly still be around but in a much different more legal form as for illegal downloading the corps your talking about still have a sh** ton of lawyers working on shuting it down for good the ones I talked to admited to be 5 years behind. 3 and 1/2 years ago they said 5 more years and all their bills will most likly be passed. I have already seen/heard of one that almost passed, so IMO it is only a matter of time till this ends and itunes may be the future of music, but by then they will probaly charge more per song to recoup their losses

# May 22, 2012 @ 12:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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96. wilco writes:

did read a artical about it on a dj site indeed they are getting close to shut down all ilegal sites
the way they are gonna do is by tracking your ip adress
as soon you up or down load its done they will fine you the isue is till so far the free use of internet sharing but soon there only will be sites as i tunes where you do have to pay nothing wrong with that

# May 22, 2012 @ 2:13 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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97. Overlord writes:

File sharing isn't going anywhere guys lol.

# May 22, 2012 @ 10:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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98. Gaspoweredrobot writes:

I get virtually all of my new music exposure via the internet, with options like Bandcamp having only emerged just recently but I would still estimate about 95% of music I hear I've downloaded and thrown onto an iPod or CDR, or someone posted it illegally on Youtube/Rapidshare/et al. None of these artists would have received a dime from me otherwise, because as a rule I don't purchase anything I haven't tried first, music or otherwise, and frankly the music industry is one of few who tries to claim privilege in this area. Mix tapes didn't kill the music industry just like the VCR didn't kill Hollywood, because fans WILL pay for things they like. Record companies (example: Earache) have discovered bands via Rapidshare downloads, something that would have never happened ten years ago. Meanwhile you got free advertising and exposure, and you're p***ed off because of how it happened? Go tour, sell merch, do all of the other stuff that full-time musicians do, because even they recognize that album sales alone simply don't bring in enough to support tours -- the default is releasing an album and touring to support its sales for a very good reason: it works.

# May 23, 2012 @ 11:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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99. brandedcfh420 writes:

::standing ovation for post 98::.....................

# May 23, 2012 @ 1:13 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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100. Jackrum writes:

yoyoyo post 100 :P

# May 23, 2012 @ 5:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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101. DixieSkumLord666 writes:

I guess the internet is the best thing and the worst thing for music...bands from remote areas can get their music shared around the globe, but they can also have all their hard work and effort and money get stolen at the push of a button. I'm kind of bummed out personally by seeing the independent music stores going the way of the horse and buggy. Illegal downloading will never be stopped but if we want the metal genre to continue to be a profitable one for smaller, really awesome bands, then we need to cough up a few bucks every now and then, especially at shows. Also just my two cents on the difference between the metal scene in the state versus Europe, but this month I've seen Soulfly, Overkill and Obituary playing to under 500 people....those same bands in Europe would be in front of a minimum of 5,000...it seems like metal is going back underground in the states. Enjoy the awesome festivals this summer european metalheads.

# May 24, 2012 @ 11:45 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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102. Devil's Advocate writes:

Downloading is here to stay. Bands will have to focus on merch and live shows for revenue. Let me offer this perspective. In a day when anyone with a computer can have a home studio and release music, the fact that you can download music for free puts the music back in the hands of the musicians. Now they don't have to sign some contract with a record company and get raped anyway. They can self promote and make money by touring. Bands that are not putting in the hard work and touring don't deserve high revenue anyway for writing albums and sitting at home.

# May 29, 2012 @ 5:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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103. slade900 writes:

in Australia we are paying upto 30 dollars for some cd,s not everyone has that kinda money to spend on a cd

# May 30, 2012 @ 3:06 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
104. Barney Grumble writes:

#102 is clearly an attack on the author at hand, who as I understand is a one man studio thing. Look at it like this: there are plenty of other one man things that go live in some way and even the bands with many people that are live/touring don't make enough because the album sales once helped expenses. You try to make it sound like all bands are home projects, which is obviously not the case. You are working backwards from a false set up. I agree with many of the posts here from just a market perspective: some stuff is meant to be sold for money and taking a free copy where not permitted is theft.

# May 30, 2012 @ 4:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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105. Drum_Junkie writes:

Physical album sales are destined to decline until they can offer something worth the cost. Currently, music can be purchased online and many lyric sites exist. That leaves the packaging or other special offers as incentive. Collectable packaging is one of a precious few ways to maintain good record sales. Tool is a good example a band offering more than the music. Not everyone can provide that buying experience, though. The degree of illegal downloading shows that more value is placed on accessibility over physical acquisition. Personally, I like have the physical copy, but I realize I’m in the majority.

When you download a copyrighted product without approval from the copyright holder, you are stealing. It can’t be made any simpler than that.

You can try to justify it by saying that the record companies are greedy, or the big name bands don’t need the money, blah, blah, blah. But the record companies have invested their money to record, promote, distribute, and even provide legal support to the artist. I don’t deny that record companies are often greedy. Capitalism drives most companies to be so. However, they should be compensated something for what they do provide. If you don’t like the prices, or don’t want the risk of throwing away your money, there are other alternatives out there than stealing through downloads.

The recording industry is at a crossroads and has been slow to adopt new technology. It’s common of any large industry to resist change in their fundamental modes of operation. At the same time, their survival is dependant upon adaptation.
Streaming seems to be the way of the future. While sites like Spotify may not have the pay to the artist adjusted correctly, I think that streaming music will gain more acceptance as more sites offer it. Right now, Relapse is streaming their entire catalog. Streaming has the capability to mitigate illegal downloading if it can offer the right incentives to the artist and the consumer. Rhapsody, Spotify and iTunes all have the potential to reduce illegal downloading if they can continue to offer ways that make it easy for people to part with their money. A multi-tiered monthly fee for different levels of access has been working so far, and is still new to the vast populace. Once it achieves broader adoption, more people will stream instead of download while only thinking about the payment once a month or so. When streaming sites offering you the ability of upload your collection to an online storage ‘cloud’ accessible through your cell anywhere you have signal, it allows great portability. With that option it can take the lead over illegal downloading by offering something easier than downloading.
When it all boils down, ease of use is the ultimate motivator, because lets face it - We’re all lazy. We don’t want to go to the record store. We don’t want to sift through a bunch of lame bands to find the pearls of metal. We don’t want to drive more than 3 or 4 hours to see our favorite bands – much less, new bands we are on the fence about. We want it right at our fingertips. We’re spoiled, plain and simple.
At the same time, you have countless bands who want to make a living through their art. When they decide to make music a profession, the objective becomes to make us lazy people willing to part with our money. Whether they succeed or not depends on their tenacity, business skills, and a fair dose of luck and circumstance. Note that I didn’t mention talent. Talent is no guarantee for success. Unfortunately, many who are musically gifted, don’t have the business savy, or aren’t good at selling their product. There have been a few commentors above insinuating that good music will sell, and a lack of success is a result of bad music. If the product truly spoke for itself, then why is so much money thrown to ad agencies? Why do record labels spend more on PR and marketing than they do distribution? Why aren’t more bands ‘invited’ to tour rather than tour out of necessity?

Music streaming models that offer portability, ‘auto-pilot’ payment options, and ALSO properly reward the artist look to be the best bet at advancing music and musicians against the proliferation of illegal downloading.

# May 31, 2012 @ 2:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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106. EricThrone writes:

Great article!!! As a starving artist myself, I totally understand. This situation is the same with my band... People need to stop thinking artists should give everything away. It takes cash to survive and continue making more music in the future. A lot of great artists are suffering because of this problem..

# Jun 2, 2012 @ 5:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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107. Ugh writes:

Sadly, seems Metallica was right...

# Jun 2, 2012 @ 5:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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108. @105 writes:

Smartest guy on the thread. Totally serious. Brilliant passage. Well said everything.

# Jun 2, 2012 @ 6:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
109. modern rock wankery writes:

the solution is simple for up and coming musicians...stop thinking in terms of dollars. do it because you love it. i played in metal/punk bands for the last 20 yrs...toured, recorded and released cd's, photo shoots and publicists, managers and all the internet/social media stuff too.
at the end of the day, i had to do it because i loved to do it and nothing else. i never made a dime in profit. spent thousands over the years, and yes it stings a bit.

point is, as long as the internet exists downloading will never stop, regardless of anybody's opinion. if you love what you do, and you believe that your art will connect with the masses, just keep doing it. if you are lucky, you will be at the right place at the right time, and it will pay off in the end.
until then, you just gotta pony up that cash to record another record, to have shirts made, pay for rehearsal space, touring, gear and on and on and on.
for every musician that breaks through and makes a living, there are hundreds of thousands that don't...and it's not because of too many folks downloading your songs

# Jun 3, 2012 @ 8:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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110. Drum_Junkie writes:

^ That is indeed a simple solution... unless the musician works at a job they hate to make the money for the music they love and believe in. Your solution tells them not to believe in it enough to pursue profiting from their passion. Your solution tells them to give up on that part of their dream, to compromise their goals and suffer in with a less fullfilling job, and to set aside any attempts to be smarter about marketing and protecting the music they love.
Your message seems to be. Downloading is here to stay. Ignore it and don't do anything about it. Your love for your music will get you through.

Think about this. The punk DIY ethos of the early 80's would never have gotten off the ground if downloading were around then. Tape trading and copying was nearly as rampant, easy, or as desirable then as downloading is now. Plus, the DIY edict commands you to fight and fight hard for your intellectual property. Otherwise it would be DIFD (Do It For Downloads).

# Jun 4, 2012 @ 9:17 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

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111. Drum_Junkie writes:

edit ..."wasn't" nearly as rampant... grrr

# Jun 4, 2012 @ 9:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
112. Plantaganda writes:

I swear I must be the only one who thinks that artistic expression shouldn't be quantifiable.

You want fame, tour. You want money, sell stuff on tour.

Screw 'artists' who care more about money than art. That makes you a capitalist, not a musician. I don't wanna listen to that unenlightened mediocre sh** anyway.

# Jun 10, 2012 @ 11:35 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
113. Sharon - Derketa writes:

Plantaganda, youre obviously not in a band. Tell you what, whoever your favorite band is, offer to fund their recording and pressings, and throw a tour on top of that where you have to pay for transportation, the club, sound man, etc.. Then lets talk about the "so called" profit that bands make. And when you see a bunch of people liking the band that you just invested in, and you are wondering why you never came close to making back the cost you put into it all, then maybe youll understand. This is all about making back costs in order to keep going, the money that goes into a release is from working our day jobs and having to "rob Peter to pay Paul" with our bills just to make a release happen for our fans. Everything in this article is EXACTLY what im going through now. If people want to share music online, it should be for "listen only". Then people can make the choice whether to pay the .99 cents (which bands only get .70 out of that) to download the MP3, or the $10 to buy the physical album. No bands are getting rich, or are expecting to get rich, its to keep putting the music out that our fans are requesting us to do. Unless studios get into the "its all about the music, let me record you for free" and pressing companies get that same attitude then unfortunately there will be costs associated with a release. Id personally have ZERO problem with any of this if we didnt have to front any costs. Whether its the past or present, it doesnt matter. The principle of making your cost back with ANY investment has always been the case. Its pointless to even try to explain based on the posts that ive read here because unless youre actually in a band, or in the music industry, you wont understand. If theres no revenue coming from fans, its up to the bands and labels to front the cash, which makes touring a massive risk that most of us are not willing to take. Its all simple math, not greed. Torrent sites have 200,000+ members. Not cool. If anything, I hope these downloaders will ATLEAST support the band if they like what they hear and actually buy their release. Thats what people are claiming what happens, to make it all seem "right". Or increasing your fan base, thats another justification. With that "theory", increasing your fan base will just screw you over even more for your next release! The more popular you are in this "modern age of free music downloads", the less likely you will make back your future costs because that is even more people to download your music for free. So when your favorites bands arent putting out releases and are not touring, dont complain. This is just how it is now in this "modern age".

# Jun 10, 2012 @ 10:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
114. Sharon - Derketa writes:

And just for the record, it IS all about the music for ANY band that is sacrificing paying their own bills knowing you people are just going to download it for free. We will continue to punish ourselves, lose more money, just to bring you music. Maybe one day you'll wake up and realise the "real" consequences and reality of what youre doing to the bands that you like. Its definately all about the music for us in bands and in the music industry, cause were actually PAYING for what we're putting out there. Its unfortunate the people downloading free music arent "all about the music" too.

# Jun 10, 2012 @ 11:00 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

115. hellrat writes:

Right on, I'm happy to see your article has generated so much response Autumn, its a very good and immediately pertinent subject...apologies for being so terse in my initial post, but I hadn't much time at the moment ;)

My point remains the same, you do music because you love it, if it makes you your living without comprimising your personal integrity, then ABSOLUTELY good for you...you are probably genius in several aspects if such is HONESTLY to occur...in such a case, I would offer many congratulations

However, if you choose to pin your fate on 'succeeding' in music based one the 'never to occur again' paradigm of the closing decades of the last century in the music industry, then you are simply deluding yourself. It ain't gonna happen like that EVER again...unless you want to be something like McTallica or frikken britney...not a band, but a BRAND

I myself turned down them sh!t hole 'opportunities' offered to us by several labels during the 'crash' of the late 90's/early 2k...sh** recording budget, zero promotion, touring on a negative income, etc. and so forth...

I will not be dictated to by some fvcking HACK at the end of the phone line, FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY, much less for fvcking nothing. I don't give a fvck who you think ya are...There are more than a few 'revered' labels around here that have directly fvcked some of the greeatest upcoming talent through sheer negligence in their slather mouthed rabid race to acquire artistically meaningless commercial signings like some fvckalls like goddamned five finger fist fvck...you know, the fvcking dogsh** the idiot masses clamour to

I make my living in the two of the the three fields I most love, fine art and wildlife...I love music just as well, but I fvcking despise the industry, and refuse to be involved with it in any sort of an 'expected compensation' manner

For those whom would like to make their living at music, you must be malleable and adaptable, and obviously must not insistently cling to outdated paradigms in stubbornness...the entire model of all spectrums of technological commodity transforms by the week anymore, you have to look for solutions....DJ has some excellent ideas that could easily be expounded upon by interested artists

Otherwise, I believe in good ol' fashioned WORK :)

As others have mentioned, you invest EVERYTHING in your music and you make your living by consistently delivering exceptional studio/live performances year after year, and you remain willing to deal with the inevitable dictating beurocracy governing 99% of such endeavor...or you make your money another way, and continue to make music for the fvcking LOVE \m/

I noticed some dribble chinned jackoff in the 40's posts postulating that I know nothing of songcraft :)

Well, snivelling cvnt (or anyone else for that matter), you are most welcome to send me an email at the address provided on my profile, and I would be more than happy to send ya a sample of the 60 odd tunes I've written or co-written over the years under several different collaborations...presumtuous fvckin arse snuffler :)

Once again, very pertinent article AE...rather singularly faceted, but will hopefully continue to break the ice and provide further incentive to discussing and discovering viable alternatives to the 'traditional method' for aspiring musical artist to take in an effort to make an honest living at their craft.

NP---Os Abysmi vel Daath---Celtic Frost

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 12:45 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

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116. hellrat writes:

**sorry for them typos thar...had maybe one too many Optimators :)

NP---Blitzkrieg Witchcraft---Deathrace King

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 12:50 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
117. mssal writes:

To be fair a huge majority of the people downloading are teens, teens who don't have the money to buy every single album they enjoy. I, being a metalhead, know how many great bands there are out there (just in metal alone, not to mention all the punk, grind, and other genres out there),I doubt anyone has every single album from every single band they enjoy, especially now that it's not so easy to find a job and mommy isn't going to hand over hundreds of dollars. And what about the people living in smaller countries?
sometimes there is no other choice but to dl, since you do still want to listen to the music.
Also, lets not forget how many old school bands and artists were long gone, dead and forgotten about. Until people started making blogs (with download links), uploaded songs (for free) on youtube and etc.. now a lot of these bands are getting a 'second chance'. More popularity (even if its underground popularity) is a plus for a band, the more fans you have the more likely it is for you to get your money back.

I'm not saying people shouldn't buy albums and I am not denying the hardships bands go though, but sometimes its the only way people can enjoy your art, and even worship it.
I buy albums as much as possible, even if it means only buying a handful per month. I do try and support as much as I can (buying albums/merch, going to shows, etc) but I just don't have the money to buy every single album I enjoy, and I don't think I should be depraved of said albums just because I'm not spoiled or rich.

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 1:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
118. Sharon - Derketa writes:

mssal, of course nobody has the money to buy everything they want!! that is the same with most things in life, not just music. id like to own a better car, i have a car, but i wouldnt mind having a better one. Not like i can go test drive a car and not bring it back, cause that is "illegal" to do so! theres TONS of things i want in life that i cannot have. now for music, i will listen to the bands i like on youtube. once i can afford to buy their stuff, i will. so my sacrifice is that if i want to listen to them, i have to sit at my computer to listen. when i drive in my car, i have to settle to listen to the CDs that i own. We are an old school underground band, formed in 1988, just reformed with our original lineup to do an album that people have waited 24 years to hear. we have gotten excellent reviews of this album. the first 2 weeks sales were promising, now the sales arent there. so if the reviews are good, people are loving the album, more people are talking highly of it, yet sales are now down. when i searched on google for the album to find reviews, i found countless pages of people giving our album for free. even rating our album 5 out of 5 on these torrent sites. It is great people are enjoying our hard work, but i am in a financial situation now because i did not have an extra $5000 laying around to do this album for everyone. i took money out of my retirement, worked overtime to get the money, and used my tax refund to fund the release. I did that for our fans, to give them a release that they have been asking for. Now i see that im not going to get that respect back. Its a complete slap in the face. Songs can be heard online for free, but it is obvious that people are chosing to download for free and ignore buying the release, even by our MP3 download that are on itunes, amazon, etc...

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 2:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
119. Sharon - Derketa writes:

Our bassist does merch for touring bands for a living. Only 10% of fans that go to shows buy merch. So even though these touring bands have a nice fan base, people that obviously like the band (because they are at their show) are not even buying the merch to support them. People complain why shirts are so expensive at shows, well this is why. Supply and demand. The more people that actually buy something, the cheaper it will be. The less people buy, the more it will just to get the costs covered because NOBODY in life wants to lose their money on anything. Like i said before, its simple math, not greed. We chose to self release our album, and not go through a label. We do all of our merch ourselves, and we can keep everything at a fair price. The cost comes out of our pocket, not some record company. The simple solution is to STOP uploading band music so others can download for FREE. Once you have something, people are less likely to actually purchase something, unless you are a collector. If the music is available for FREE LISTEN, there is absolutely NO reason for ANYONE to offer it for FREE DOWNLOAD. And if people cant afford to buy the release, then listen to it on their computers. With this modern age, we are all fortunate to be able to stil hear the bands we like for free on our computers. THAT should be the advantage of our "modern age". Now, these torrent sites have their own legal disclaimer that the download is to listen, review, then you are to delete from your computers afterwards then buy the release." If they werent doing something wrong, they wouldnt put up that ridiculous legal disclaimer that means nothing as far as the law is concerned. To upload music, if you do not OWN the intellictual property of that music, and do not have written permission from the intellectual property owners to upload for free download, you are doing something illegal. Not only illegal, but screwing over the bands that you apparently love. Now the difference between now versus the tape trading that happened back when this underground metal scene started.......that was the ONLY way to get the word around about a band. You did not have the internet, radio stations werent playing the music, except late night college radio stations. These were demos and live shows being traded. And if you were lucky enough to find the contact info of a band through a fan zine or a friend, you were able to order the original copy before it was out of print. If that band was fortunate enough to have a label put out their album, people BOUGHT it. And we definately didnt have money back then but we loved metal so much, buying metal was more important than anything, we lived with our parents and were able to find a way. So please STOP trying to justify this illegal free download bullsh**. I am in a band and see the results of it, which its now going to take us longer to release the vinyl version (that everyone is asking for) and to do our next release. And the thing that i find so ridiculous about all of you that support the free download age, is bands are shouting out that it is ruining us, and youre trying to tell us no, its actually going to benefit you in the long run. So, invite all of us bands to your house, let us eat your food, run up your utilities and when you start asking for money that youre not able to make your bills, we will then tell you, relax.....its going to benefit you in the long run because word is going to get out that we can live off of you for free, and people are going to love you for that. you are going to be known as the coolest person out there. and when 80% of fans that go to shows start buying merch, versus the 10% that buy now, then you all can tell us 'we told you so'.

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 2:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
120. Sharon - Derketa writes:

I tell you what, the music we are creating must be rotting out peoples brains because simple logic is out the fvcking window!!!!!

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 2:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

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121. Jackrum writes:

I stand by my point that at the start of the article he states he used to steal music from bands via downloading but now its happening tp him its not fair.

hmm, i smell hypocrisy, and not the band.

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 6:14 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
122. Sharon - Derketa writes:

Jackrum, if he was still downloading free music then he would be considered a hypocrite. The fact that he saw first hand the results of it and stopped, just makes him aware. The point of his article is to bring awareness by telling his personal experience. This is a real problem and unfortunately people would rather find every excuse that they can to justify free downloads and attack the bands that are speaking up about it. I think the disconnect is people only consider it stealing if they are physically holding something. People have commented that its bands being greedy. Thats projection at its finest. The greed is coming from the people that are downloading massive amounts of music for free. This is affecting EVERY band out there so the people that are doing this, are screwing over their favorite bands. If your favorite band comes to town, be sure to go up to them and admit to their faces that you downloaded their music for free. That wont happen, people will just hide behind their online user names.

# Jun 11, 2012 @ 11:07 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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123. brandedcfh420 writes:

sharon, you are preaching to an empty room!!

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 7:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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124. brandedcfh420 writes:

sharon, someone who has done it b4 then turn around and say stop because it hurting me now, should realize that the double standard hypocricy will only bring heat towards them...dont talk about trying to stop it if you are guilty of doing it yourself....!!!

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 7:20 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

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125. Jackrum writes:

yup, no ones cares..

By the way my name is Mike and i cant remember the last time i even downloaded a song let alone an album or discography. I prefer to own the albums, even if that means paying ridiculous f'ing prices in the shops i am lucky enough to find the albums in, or the online stores that arnt trying to rip me off for albums no longer in print.

And the OP is a hypocrite who is only posting becausew its affecting him... have they gone to EVERY band he downloaded and paid them retrospectivly... nope??? didnt think so.

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 7:24 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
126. Sharon - Derketa writes:

Of course the people downloading dont care, they are benefiting. Now as far as the mention that he used to download music himself could just be a tactic to attempt to relate to the people doing it so that he doesnt sound accussing. The Devils Advocate. The article was written to bring awareness to the people that are doing it that may not realise the consequences. Instead the comments turned into a "i know you are but what am i" battle. The only reason i found this article was I started recent posts on my facebook page and someone sent me this article and I wanted to chime in to show support to all of the bands out there. Do i think posting comments on an article is going to actually do anything? Of course not! The people that are downloading are not reading this article, they are busy uploading and downloading music. If they do happen to read it, theyre just going to laugh at it. Theres been posts that downloading is not going away, just accept it and quit your whining. Well, ive filed a complaint with the FBI. If ISP's take a responsibility of monitoring what their customers are using their service for, then maybe this can stop. If they are using their internet service for internet crimes, ban them from having internet along with some hefty fines. I thought Lars fought the good fight for us all years ago with Napster. And i remember the heat and bad press that he got because they were already successful, beyond what any of us could ever imagine. People werent thinking that it was cool that he was using his own money to try and put a stop to it for the sake of other bands. They were thinking how greedy Metallica were. The greed isnt coming from the bands, its coming from the fans, or as i call them "scams". A fan will support their favorite band. But the people (scammers) that pretend to be fans, just to be able to get as much music as possible so they can rattle off band names to their friends, and "pretend" they are true metal underground are pathetic. They are a disgrace to what this metal scene was once about. Youve heard the saying "a wolf in sheeps clothing", well these people are "sheep in wolves clothing". I encourage all of the bands reading this to file an internet crime complaint with the FBI. Take screen shots of the sites showing your music being downloaded for free. Its a start, and this ISP monitoring can bring in more jobs worldwide. As far as buying every thing you downloaded, if you dont like it, then dont buy it. Why would anyone buy anything that you dont like!! LISTEN to the bands online for free to see if its something that you want to spend your money on. Is that not fair to everyone?? The problem is people are downloading and liking the album, spreading the music further for more to download, and NOT buying. Unfortunately, ive been "scammed" by people that I thought were my fans....they bought my album and just gave it away to sites that have 200,000+ members. THANKS GUYS!!!! Make sure you admit it to my face if we can ever afford to play in your state or country. ATLEAST give me THAT respect!!!

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 12:02 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

127. brandedcfh420 writes:

well, again, preaching to an empty room. you filed a complaint with the fbi, big deal. how many tens of thousands of complaints do they get every year?!

"" Unfortunately, ive been "scammed" by people that I thought were my fans....they bought my album and just gave it away to sites that have 200,000+ members. THANKS GUYS!!!! ""

waaaaaaaaaaaaaa, are you also filing a complaint with the fbi against the criminal bankers who are "stealing" money from the american people and sending it to foreign countries, or are you just going after common people who are only downloading music?

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 12:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
128. Sharon - Derketa writes:

Again, classic response of "i know you are but what am i" versus the metal community uniting together.

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 12:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

129. brandedcfh420 writes:

seems you are hell bent on putting people in prison and gladly admit it. and you want to talk about "uniting people" together after admiting to bringing the fbi into the equation....

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 2:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
130. Sharon - Derketa writes:

So when you mention we are talking to an empty room, youre talking about yourself, except empty rooms usually are quiet. Research on what happens to people that do internet crimes such as hacking. Im not going to continue to argue with you. If you want to be a pr!ck in life, thats your choice. If youre not capable of understanding right and wrong then nobody here or anywhere will be able to convince you otherwise. Although i suspect youre just a person that likes to be confrontational at any chance you can. Bands have spoken the results of the free downloads, but you just want to give us all the finger. You are aware of the consequences of it all, and we are aware of people like you. End of story.

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 2:52 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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131. brandedcfh420 writes:

::sound of crickets chirping::

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 3:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

Supporter

132. Jackrum writes:

Branded.... watch out dude TUMBLEWEEDS APPROACHINGS

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 5:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

133. brandedcfh420 writes:

:que the music from "the good the bad and the ugly:....

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

134. hellrat writes:

^DOWNLOADED good the bad & the ugly theme? ;)

Yep, I do hear them coyotes yappin' now...

Fvckin Jack...tumbleweeds :)

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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135. brandedcfh420 writes:

ahahhaahahha

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 8:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Overlord's avatar

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136. Overlord writes:

If you hear that music is dead because of downloading, don't just go through the standard "create album, market briefly, put up for sale, whine about downloading" bullsh** everyone does.

Try something new, one thing I am amazed has not caught on in the music industry is youtube style ads. Put your album up for download on your website for free and run an advertisement or two for every download.

I am waiting for a band brave enough to try that tactic... my point is that it's time to just move on, you are not going to make money selling CDs traditionally.

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 11:08 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
sonictherapy's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

137. sonictherapy writes:

I also wonder why there isn't a system like there is with the movies that get released, where copying is only possible if you have a particle descrambler (at least for the label releases). Or - even the system they have with online games, where you only get a one hour trial and when you purchase it your registration key only works for you or up to three PC's.

# Jun 12, 2012 @ 11:15 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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138. Blindgreed1 writes:

Sonic brings up a great point, but I believe the answer is because the labels dont give a fvck and the artists are too busy making music to develop such tools.

# Jun 13, 2012 @ 2:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
IrishMetal's avatar

Member

139. IrishMetal writes:

Nah, it's actually because music is the easiest thing to copy. All you gotta do is hook it up to a good quality recording device whilst playing it on a good quality set up if all other computerised options are somehow negated. There's no way round that one.

Never mind that DRM (copy protection like registration etc) is a f***ing cancer, and more people download movies so that they don't get those ridiculous f***ing FBI warnings, whereas paying customers do.

I like that in some games, they actually made sure that pirated copies wouldn't fully work (for a while). Case in point - Batman, Arkham Asylum, you could get up to some point and then the gliding ability didn't work or something. People went on forums to complain, and were informed they would get no help because it was a patch (or lack of patch) that only affected pirated copies and the rippers missed on release. A big middle finger to the little sh**heads, which I personally thought was inventive as hell.

But generally DRM is invasive and a "f*** you" to the legal customers, where the pirates see none of it.

Fact is, there's a lot of music out there, and you gotta be either truly unique, or kinda sell-outish to get ahead. People can only listen to so much music, and middle of the road bands are the ones who'll lose out, as they put money into recording, but don't get it back.

# Jun 13, 2012 @ 4:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

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140. Jackrum writes:

guys, do you realise what you did???


you scared the Tumbleweeds off... Batman style

# Jun 14, 2012 @ 1:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

Member

141. Blindgreed1 writes:

I only posted once and I didn't even discuss poo???

# Jun 14, 2012 @ 2:17 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

142. Drum_Junkie writes:

Let me offer this analogy (hehe… he said anal)

Suppose you were a cook at restaurant.
You cook the food, and set it on the shelf for the server to pick it up.
Your reasonable expectation is that the server will deliver it to the proper table.
Suppose some of the servers snuck the food out the back door and gave it to homeless people. Or suppose the people did get the food, ate it and left without paying.

If this happened infrequently, that wouldn’t be anything to get too concerned about, but if it becomes a detectable pattern and a regular occurrence, then the owner of the restaurant is going to have to do something. You know he’s not going to take it out of his own wallet for long. He’s going to cut staff or he’s going to find and fire the server, or both. Your job as a cook could be in jeopardy through no fault of your own. It doesn’t matter how good you are at your job if the owner can’t pay you. And if you did find out what was going on, wouldn’t you alert the manager or tell someone who could stop it?

This is very similar to the recording industry and downloading issue.
Record companies = Restaurant owners
Cooks = Bands
Servers = Distribution network (including illegal download sites)
Customers = Fans

The record companies aren’t going to take it on the chin when they lose revenue, they’re going to limit who they invest in, and cut their roster if needed. This affects not just bands. It affects managers, lower level recording industry employees, and even independent studios that work with labels. Isn’t it in the bands best interest to fight for a healthy music industry? Nothing that is overrun with parasites is healthy.

I know some of you suggest that the motive should be purely artistic - that bands should be willing to suffer for their art rather than seek money. This is an altruistic and noble pursuit, but it’s not sustainable.
Plus, it’s so very charitable for those profiting from their work to suggest it. Its funny how many illegal downloaders are the ones saying that and yet, how few bands or artists are pushing for poverty and sacrifice. Look at some famous artists who died poor:
Vincent Van Gogh, Edgar Allen Poe, and Robert Johnson to name a few. Don’t you think they deserved some financial reward during their lifetimes?

When you attack people like Sharon-Derkata for pursuing illegal downloaders, you’re missing the point. If the illegal downloaders weren’t doing anything wrong, then there wouldn’t be a problem. (As a side note, MU and the internet in general is hardly, an ‘empty room’. This post will be up for the foreseeable future and anyone can find this page later and read it and possibly learn something. I know I have learned from it.)

Now, do I think that illegal downloading will stop? Of course not. But that doesn’t mean something shouldn’t be done to reduce it. Autumns Eyes is working toward reducing it through education via this article. I don’t smell hypocrisy with it as much as I see remorse and an effort to inform people that illegal downloading is much more prevalent than most think.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 9:46 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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143. Drum_Junkie writes:

BTW... less than 24 hours before the comments close...
DISCUSS!

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 9:49 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

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144. brandedcfh420 writes:

If AE hadnt admitted to doing it, no one would have called hypocrisy. maybe someone who isnt guilty of it should have written the article instead of someone who has been part of the problem already..........

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 10:55 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

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145. Drum_Junkie writes:

The thing is, he DID do it. not DOES do it. If he said that he STILL downloads illegally, that would be hypocrisy. He realized the damage of doing so and he stopped. Thats not hypocritical. That is realizing your mistake, having remorse, and turning away from it. Writing this article is also an effort to make some ammends for the downloading he did do (whether he intended the article that way or not.)

Haven't you ever unknowningly did something wrong, later realized it was wrong and then stopped the offence?
That's not hypocrisy.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 11:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

Member

146. Blindgreed1 writes:

I'm pretty sure I'm the only person I know that's never pirated music and although I have very strong feelings about it, I think Dan did a great job with this piece. I find it admirable that he was honest in divulging his past wrong doing. He could have very easily ommitted that fact from the story and none would be the wiser.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 11:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

147. Drum_Junkie writes:

Incorrectly calling AE a hypocrite only sidesteps the message of the article, that illegal downloading is:

A. Illegal
B. Hurts musicians
C. Hurts fans in the long run by weakening the music industry.
D. Is more widespread than many think.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 11:14 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

148. brandedcfh420 writes:

""Haven't you ever unknowningly did something wrong, later realized it was wrong and then stopped the offence?""

yes, but i dont go and tell others not to do it. i let other people make their own decisions. the consequences of their actions are on them.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 11:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

149. Drum_Junkie writes:

"yes, but i dont go and tell others not to do it. i let other people make their own decisions. the consequences of their actions are on them."
For example, if you bought some bunk weed from someone, you wouldn't tell your friends not to buy from them? Some friend...

It's obvious by your statement that you're not a parent.

It's still good to inform people and THEN let them make their own decision. Reread the article. Nowhere did he tell people not to download illegally. He pointed out all the pitfalls and damage it does and recounted his firsthand experience, but he never said "Don't download".

Blaming the the author only sidesteps the message.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 11:49 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

150. brandedcfh420 writes:

well, using weed as an example is wrong. weed affects everyone differently. what could be bunk weed to some could send someone else into outer space. anytime i have ever gotten some smoke that was weak to me i told people about it, but also said to them "it could be super spacegrass to you, so give it shot and see how it does you", cause weed affects everyone differently...correct he didnt say dont download, but with the article written the way it is he is telling people, subconciously, stop downloading and buy cds...

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 12:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

151. Drum_Junkie writes:

So maybe AE should have written a balanced article?
What's the upside to illegal downloading? How does the musician financially profit from music piracy? Increased exposure doesn't work, because its been proven that such exposure is mainly to other downloaders. Where's the increased online sales from illegal downloading? The few that hear it illegally and then purchase it legally is too small to document and doesn't compensate for the lost revenue. It also doesn't let the labels know of the true demand for the artists' work. If sales via CDs, or ITunes, rhapsody, spotify, etc are not reflective of the true popularity, then the artist is shortchanged.

The article exposes the adverse effects of music piracy.
If only one person reads this and switches to purchasing music through legal means, then it's one less person siphoning off of the efforts of musicians.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 12:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
brandedcfh420's avatar

Member

152. brandedcfh420 writes:

the artists are shortchanged by the greedy record execs to begin with!!! this debate will go on and on and on and on and will never be resolved.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 2:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
153. Sharon - Derketa writes:

Thats not really true, it depends on the recording contract that you have. I know bands that have 50% split after costs. Thats about as fair as it can get. Its in the best interest of bands to invest in a lawyer so they dont get screwed over by a label. And, of course, bands have to pay taxes on their revenue. A band is a business. The main issue is just people making MP3s and uploading them for free. Someone mentioned that bands shouldnt be putting out CDs. Well, vinyl is not safe either because you can rip vinyl to an MP3. And vinyl is not cheap!! Im real hestitant to jump into that loss but will ultimately do it. The industry looked into encryption for CDs but unfortunately that would mean they would have to develop CD players to read the encryption. Even if the CD was encrypted for PC use, once you buy the CD and decrypt, you can then make an MP3. And buyers should be able to put their music on their own MP3 player, just not give it out to the world. Until the government can work out something with ISP's to monitor the MP3 sharing activity, then we just have to hope people will wake up a little and realise that their favorite band might get dropped from a label, not record again, and not tour. Another topic that was brought up was buying a used CD. The band/label have already gotten their share for that CD from the original sale, if a person wants to get rid of it, thats their own business deal. Its just like the people that sell rare items on Ebay for ridiculous amounts of money, the band doesnt get anything for that. The seller takes the money and runs.

# Jun 15, 2012 @ 3:52 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

Supporter

154. Jackrum writes:

i hereby stat the petition to bring back the tumbleweeds

sign up and discuss

# Jun 16, 2012 @ 5:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address

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