Morbid Angel Guitarist Questions The Metal Scene
Morbid Angel guitarist Trey Azagthoth has posted a lengthy blog on his Myspace asking whether or not the Metal scene is close minded. You can read the blog below.
"Is the metal scene close minded????
"Well, is it????
My purpose with this blog is that I have a desire to create some live performance concerts sometime in the future that include a set of Morbid Angel along with sets of the most extreme representatives of industrial, hardcore, terrorcore, jungle drum and bass etc DJs and groups.
"EXTREME MUSIC FOR EXTREME PEOPLE!!!! Right???
"Well, so it seems there are certain promoters and so called "authorities of the scene" who have some idea that such a gig wont work. Saying that metal people are narrow-minded and hate the various forms of Hardcore DJ Music for one reason or another. Is this true???
People who know me know I am already a freaky freak artist and so then such an idea for crossing over such types of music is amazing,. Exciting!!!
"As long as its freakin' HARD HITTING and SICK!!!!!!
So......., Why not I ask.
"What is Metal anyway???
"For me "metal" is for those who are bored with the constrictions and "safe practices" of the mainstream mentality, just like with any other so called "underground" scene or movement. Metal people wanna get mowed down by viciously sick melodies slamming over an arrangement of beats that twist the body and pull it in all directions. Freak them up. Metal for me is also about self discovery. Not being sheep-like and playing "follow the leader" but rather its about being free to express one's own ideas without the fear of ridicule. If there isn't any guts involved to challenge whatever is the current accepted patterns then there isn't much in possibility for any new things to arise.
"What are metal lyrics even about if not about either breaking free from the dominion of some slavery-oppression, or the act of rejoicing in the pleasure of what people have passions about? Of course there are also lyrics about fantasy and mind fuck as well too. !!!=RAWR=!!! ;)
For me it most certainly ISN'T about tribal-group mentality nor mainstream behavioural thinking. Its not about playing it safe either.
What is the mentality of the mainstream???
"Seems to me it's quite associated with sheepish behaviours, placing value on "fitting in and the approval of others" instead of the freedoms of self expression.
"What defines the term "underground"???
"Isn't it when people place what they believe inside of themselves over what is supposedly supported in their exterior mainstream environment???
"What is the difference in fabricating a product and creating art????
"Where does "trendy-ness" surface and what is it to be trendy??
"Isn't it when people cannot find the source of certainties, direction and/or self worth within themselves, specially as in those times when they are alone and not distracted, so therefore they need to base their certainties on how things reflect off of their external environment including their peers?? Adjusting themselves to be considered favourable and to attract the approval of others outside of themselves???
For some people in the world the only thing "real" is that which can be measured by the 5 mundane senses. For them the inner workings are as some mysterious make believe which they sometimes play around with until any serious situation arises and then such things are placed back in the realm of "make believe", they of course fall back to earth and work from whichever foundation they find "certainty" in, no???
"Isn't this a formula based on the dependence of others and if so what does this have to do with the freedoms of such a thing as independence???
"Where is the "strength" in such a behaviour???
"Is it just that maybe its considered "cool "and that's cool enough???
"Ok, so the question is, do Metal People only enjoy gigs with a Metal Only Billing???
"Do Metal People also enjoy some crossover as long as its freakin over the top EXTREME????
"Does anyone even care??? Please chime in."
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42 Comments on "Morbid Angel Guitarist Questions The Metal Scene"
2. writes:
I don't think we're colse-mindedm I listen to everything from folk country to grindcore through drum and bass abd noise, a lto of bands experimented already with genres like hadcore or drum and bass,jungle etc, check out ted maul they mix death metal with d&b,sepultura had a small try,slipknot,fear factory you know it al depends on the way you see metal and all it represents.
Supporter
3. writes:
i like all forms of metal and hardcore...the only thing i dont like about hardcore is hardcore dancing...but there are many other forms of music out there than just metal....all depends on one's taste...i would have to agree that there are a lot of "close-minded" metalheads...but when i think about it, i would say metal has opened my mind torwards music than any other genre...
Member
4. writes:
A good band is a good band, good music is good music. That's the way I see.
And I also hate the hardcore dancers, I remember being at Ozzfest about 6 or 7 years ago and a small pit opened off to the side of hardcore dancers...it was like open season on them. people came from all over to knock them over.
5. writes:
Dear Trey plz answer one question
in what kind of music genre(s) you will find topic like:
Life, Death, Philosophy, Spirituality, Religion, Sexuality, Witchcraft, Satanism, and so on...
we have at least 10 sub genres of metal each with it's own sound and lyrics
from Motley Crue To Tyr
From Behemoth To Stryper
From Shadows Fall To Burzum
as you see, we're not close minded at all
we just love HEAVY f***ING METAL so we don't need a reason to listen to other stuff
one important point: metal is a way of life and it's not just about the music
Supporter
Former Contributor
7. writes:
I don't think the metal scene is narrow minded, I just think the metal scene is not REALLY open minded. I mean, in general, in any mass group you will find ignorant and narrow minded people. So when you have a scene as small as metal and you try and pick out the open minded ones, then the crowds get pretty small.
But I hope Trey succeeds, the man is one of my hero's. He's always plays with true creativity, which is more than 90% of most bands can say. And lastly, Crossover and hardcore is awesome especially when it's extreme - Cryptic Slaughter or Minor Threat for example. I doubt very much he's talking about that watered down entity people call hardcore now.
Member
8. writes:
Great points, Cynic. I'm not super familiar with all the genres Trey's talking about here, but I don't think he should not do it because the metal community might me less open minded than he'd like. If he goes through with this show I'm sure a lot of people will show up and enjoy it, and what's important is that he goes through with it.
That being said, I probably wouldn't go myself because just like someone else said... I don't need any genres other than metal. That doesn't make me less open minded, just content with what i have and i stick to what I know and enjoy. And I think you have to be pretty f***ing open minded to like metal in the first place, you know? I listen to other genres when I'm in the mood, but still only blues or jazz or genres that you can find elements of in metal. (I'm trying to find more good Latin music... it's in my blood :P )
Trey brings up really good points and I think he should go through with the show(or tour?) just to show those so-called "authorities" who REALLY knows metal.
9. writes:
I don't think the metal scene is narrow minded, I just think the metal scene is not REALLY open minded. I mean, in general, in any mass group you will find ignorant and narrow minded people. So when you have a scene as small as metal and you try and pick out the open minded ones, then the crowds get pretty small.
Is it creepy to say that as I was reading the article, those were the EXACT thoughts running through my head?
As for myself, I would also highly reccomend Ted Maul. One of those bands that grabbed my interest and still wont release it, despite the fact that it's virtually impossible to get a hold of any of their music for me.
Personally, metal is the only music that will respond in kind to my open-minded attitude about music. Jazz-metal? DEP. Techno-grindcore? Genghis Tron. And anyone who doesnt understand the importance of Opeths music in terms of somehow cohesive extreme musical contrast, is living under the heaviest rock known to man. there isnt a single other genre of music that WILL except a tour as diverse as Trey suggests.
Can you imagine country or Rap fans accepting industrial, hardcore, terrorcore, jungle drum and bass etc DJs and groups all in the same place as THEIR beloved music? If any group of musical fans can make that tour work, it's metalheads.
Now Playing: Lamb of God- Broken Hands
Member
11. writes:
it's seems like most metal people to me are close-minded! but i've seen lots of different kind of metal heads in my day! from ones that are always sad and like stuff with alot more symphony in there music! to the always angry and only listen to stuf thats real thrash metal! but I seem to notice the same thing! you give them something to think about hey think about it! theis can very well be a flop! but with his credentials trey has! most true metal heads well go just to see morbid angel!
Former Contributor
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13. writes:
It IS creepy FAN. Especially when Cynic does it time and time again. Netro is famous for the same thing. I'm starting to think that there should be a clause written to keep both of them from ever being in the same place at the same time. *with a very worried look on his face*
14. writes:
Well, cynic, Napalm Death is grindcore, and I would vastly hesitate to call "Death" death metal, but does that stop people from listing them in with their sheet of deathmetal bands they listen to?
I'm not saying DEP HAS to be metal,I'm not really sure what to specifically call them anyway. I hear the intensity that derives from harcore, the experimentation and technicality of metal, and occasional jazz time signature tweaks. I only cal them metal, because that's the part that led me into them, and everything else is just crazy icing on the cake. There's also the point that I dont want to go around labeling a band as "Hard-metal-jazzcore", in that noone will have any idea what I'm talking about.
and yes,BG, netromancer does that too alot, although it usually doesnt piss me off, because half the time these two bastards express the point better than I would have, thusly saving me all that wasted typing lol
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Reviewer
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18. writes:
I think he and I have disagreed before on some topic or another. But it was done so quietly no one noticed.
I will say on this topic that he already typed what I probably would have. But I'm sure I would have made it much longer-winded with a barely hidden sense of pomposity. I do so love to read my own typing :)
Member
19. writes:
well there is both "open-minded" and "close-minded" metalheads/people. i like all kinds of metal, from progressive-instrumental-metal to Zyklon, from stuff that barely has any metal in it like Mindless Self Indulgence to the most obvious metal, being Slayer. Whereas my brother used to like all kinds of metal then he joined a Grindcore band, and now Grindcore is all he listens to and he calls everything else sh** that doesn't have fast drums and tricky timing.
it's because of metal i try to listen to anything. whether it be country, pop, rock, anything, and then i judge the music on what i hear. if something is waaaay too repetitive (like f***ing rap or dance music) then i dub that as "sh** music". but i've heard some hip-hop music that was actually good (Peeping Tom, but then again that's Patton for ya lol) and old country i can say i actually enjoy (Garth Brooks).
so as i previously stated, there are open and close-minded metalheads/musicians. It's common on both sides.
Now listening to: Reloaded - Winds Of Plague
Member
20. writes:
OK, I've been told to keep my rants shorter some time ago! LOL. ..... Here we go. I agree with Trey and he has brought up some good questions. I think that somebody who listens to "metal" is more open minded than the average music listener. That being said, I do think that someone who listens to "metal" might be closed-minded because they like one type of metal. I believe that you need to listen to all forms of music: metal, rap, classical, etc. It is also safe to say the most forms of metal's lyrics talk about "taboo" topics. To rehash what some of the posts have said: good music is good music no matter what type of music it is. If you can play and not try to be repetitive, it will show. Who needs a 5 minute song that the same thing over and over? I'll take a 10 minute song if it keeps my attention and is well written.
21. writes:
I only listen to music that i enjoy, plain and simple. 80% of that is metal, but some is jazz, or classical, or maybe a few rock or experimental songs too. If i went to a metal show and didn't see something i liked i would be p***ed. If people are there because they want to look "hardcore" and extreme they should get their asses kicked.. which relates to the mention bit about sheep following trends, lots of newer "metal" is feeding off of sheep and nothing more. Typically this music lacks that "something special" that "REAL metal" has, but there are exceptions. I consider my views on music not narrow minded, i'm open to anything, but rather "highly refined" and i think this is a more appropriate term
Member
22. writes:
How do you look hardcore?
Sure all the trendy kids may look the same (skinny leg jeans, shirts with big prints and flat brimmed hats) but real hardcore is about the music, not the image. "Dresscode f*** NO!"
I don't think DEP are a hardcore band, they may have elements in their music but to me they seem more metal. Not enough punk in it.
Former Contributor
23. writes:
They were originally a hardcore punk band Wiggles. DEP sounds 100 times more like Refused compared to any metal band. A Metal Archives search yeilds "No results found" on their name for a good reason - I mean if you like DEP great, but calling them metal is a different story. Also I'm pretty sure junglecrust was using hardcore as an adjective.
"I would vastly hesitate to call "Death" death metal, but does that stop people from listing them in with their sheet of deathmetal bands they listen to?" - From Scream Bloody Gore through to Human and most of ITP Death is definitively death metal. Also F_A_N trust me, there's been a lot of times you've saved me some typing as well!
"semantic prattling battle" - lol, sounds like something two old men would do at a rest home for fun. Netro has given me some awesome recommendations anyway, I read Kingdom Come the other day and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Also great there band Terminator.
Member
25. writes:
i agree with practically everything Cynic says. Especially about what people in the mainstream today consider hardcore to be. i dont consider what today's mainstream calls hardcore, hardcore. All of the newer actual hardcore bands dont get the recognition they deserve. check out Trash Talk, Ceremony, Pulling Teeth, Tragedy, His Hero Is Gone...now that's some hardcore
Member
26. writes:
Yeah, very good questions brought up. I have to say this though...stating whether or not Metalheads are close-minded or open-minded is like trying to determine if someone is dumb or intelligent. We all have certain strengths and weaknesses in different topics; a person can be open-minded about one thing, but may be close-minded about a different topic.
About music, I find that a lot of people, including Metalheads are open to all kinds of music; that's nothing new. As for Metal music in itself, Metalheads love different types of sub-genres of Metal; that's what makes us different. One person may like a genre or band that someone else might hate, but that is just personal taste. When it comes to people that aren't into Metal, I find that they have a hard time accepting extreme music, while Metalheads are open to much more as well as the music they already know and love. Good music is indeed good music.
The bottom line in terms of music is that most Metalheads want something different, meaning, something that other people might not understand or be OPEN to. I guess that is what separates us from the "mainstream mindset". This also applies to our personal beliefs, the freedom to think differently.
Image can sometimes enhance the message and mood of a band and the music it produces. A band may decide to represent themselves as they choose, but it doesn't matter what people look/dress like. I don't really have an answer for the exact definition of "trendy" cuz I do not know the line of where trends start or stop.
"People are so stuck with labeling acts and individuals, calling things and circumstances by so many names and whats more just to make life easier for themselves to live, it makes me sick."
-Quorthon
The important difference between making a product and producing art is that art is a form or expression and making a product is about caring about the finished product rather than the love of the process. Love of process and expression is art.
I will continue to ponder on these questions some more, and to be honest I don't think I'm ever going to stop. The power of thinking never stops and that is good.
28. writes:
I think that's the longest post i've ever seen Jenny do on here, but maybe that's just me not paying attention as much as I should. :B regardless, well thought out. the second paragraph definitely struck a chord with me.
Also, since the topic of trendy has arisen, I would like to poin tout while the band Morbid Angel are certaintly one of the forefathers of underground death metal as far as I'm concerned, everytime I see trey in a live video, I could swear he shops at a hot topic mega-mall. Ironic, but I think it has more to do with him being an industrial fan than him being trendy. still, interesting.
Cynic. alright, I'm still not satisfied with a proper definition of DEP, but I'll take that they arent metal. Metal Archives may not be the end-all say-all to every band that's metal, but for a band as widely recognized as DEP is, I'm sure quite a bit of thought went into properly catogorizing them outside of metal in order to keep them out lol
Death though, perhaps I havent listened to them as much as I should, but everything I hear brings me nowhere near the type of atmosphere presented by bands like Deicide or Cannibal corpse. Then agin, neither does CYNIC(the band lol), but I would hardly even attempt to debate that they arent death metal. Just different shades of the same color I suppose.
I drew my statement from my friend who just went back and listened exclusively to Death past and present( or most recent I should say) for a week or two. he kept ranting to me about how he could not properly classify them. One cd he would hear thrash, one he would hear death, another he would find being a medley of everthing you could think of. I trusted his opinion of it, and as I', to busy looking up new bands to look back at the classics, except in random spurts, I didnt really try and classify it properly for him, so I just went with what he said lol. IDK, he could be horribly wrong, or it could be up for debate, dont yell at me I have no idea. I'll just rescind that portion of my argument lol
Now Playing: Ted Maul- For the innocent
Member
29. writes:
I'm sure everyone will expect a long post from me, but I think I'll try to keep it short. Within metal, rock, classical, and singer/songwriter styles of music, I'm open to alot. I'll try 'em out and see if I dig 'em. Outside of those genres I'm really not that open. I'm old enough to know what I like and what I don't. I'm not trying to expand my tastes to include much else. I've heard alot of rap, or techno, or pop, or what passes for R&B these days, I just usually know without having to hear it that it won't appeal to me. I suppose that could be considered close minded, but those genres seem to do just fine without me buying their albums or tuning in my radio.
Former Contributor
30. writes:
Have you heard Death's "Human" album? If you haven't, you're pretty much missing a part of your soul. In particular (well it's like picking diamonds from gold but) "Lack Of Comprehension" is one of my favourite songs ever. Like, ever, ever. The drumming... dear god, Reinert is a machine. Also there's a little ditty sounding guitar solo thing in the verse, which sounds average but to me is the most difficult thing I've ever seen a human being play on guitar while headbanging. I could go on!
You're friend is right on though, it's funny that Death are definitely the black sheep of the same genre that they molded. But it's like saying Metallica aren't a thrash band because they made Reload - not really a sentence that makes sense without a perspective on time.
31. writes:
^that certaintly puts it into perspective. the band may have started out as, and even helped pioneer a genre, but as time progressed, so have they, in their own way. lol, now all the pieces to the puzzle fit. I get it now. :B
Now I have to go back and finish downloading the Death discography I had to cancel because it was taking too long. Right after I finish getting the Iron Maiden and Priest discographies. and Mastodon's remission cd. And...blah blah i'll get to it eventually lol
Member
33. writes:
Underground hardcore scene around where i live, everyone dresses pretty normal and stuff. Only really see skinny jeans wearing, big print t shirt wearers at metal/deathcore gigs.. Also i wouldn't trust metal archives with wether a bands 'metal' or not. They have a pretty warped view on things.
Former Contributor
Member
36. writes:
i'd say im open-minded for a metalhead
the non metal music i listen:
-japanese music (pop, rock, metal, indie and hip hop)
-hardcore, mostly aussie (pwd, carpathian, shinto katana, deez nuts, OLD day of contempt)
-lite sh**, to 'relax' to lawl (acoustic stuff, muse, sigur ros, radiohead)
-hip-hop with some depth (lupe fiasco, q-tip, the roots, the streets and black star)
37. writes:
i think metal is not narrow minded...only metal is still not totaly commercial type of
music , metal can be better witouht mixing with trendy music...you can progress
technical side , lyrcal ... just look at bands like arsis..last album , at the gates..slaughter of....
just like some fat fancy boss in music industry want more money ..like mixing metal and
hip hop and rejecting metal becuse there is not tons of money invested in metal....
Supporter
39. writes:
"I trusted his opinion of it, and as I', to busy looking up new bands to look back at the classics, except in random spurts," heh now there's someone with a different aproach to metal than me, because i have no time to check the new bands unless someone really recomends them or they are supporting someone that i can hear live,for me classics are the most important since it wasn't for the classics there wouldn't be any present or future bands.that's how u learn to understand the scene and why metalcore is so popular where r it's origins and who are the bandaripping off from,same with other genres,no past=no future
Member
40. writes:
Hmm, in a way, I agree with him, but then again I don't. I see it from Cynic's view really. I don't believe we are narrow minded, just not too open minded. I know people that just listen to one or two bands, and thats it. I see it as, you must expand your musical tastes, because eventually, the stuff you listen to will become stale, and you won't want to listen to it anymore.
I think if you love metal, its not just a music form, its a lifestyle. You live for the metal, and thats amazing even in itself. I find metalheads to be some of the most intelligent and understanding people I've ever met. We always get labeled as the outcasts and the satanists, but most of the metalheads I've met are very pleasent people, and are real interesting to have a talk with.
41. writes:
Well, I would say that a good percentage of metalheads are narrow-minded. It seems that the many that i've come across are afraid to admit that they like other forms of music bedsides metal, or that their freinds will call them a fag or whatever. "If it ain't metal it's sh**!" I've heard this one thrown around quite a bit. I've honestly never considered myself a "metalhead" though i'm a fan, or labeled any form of music.
I thought i'd just throw my opinion out there. :)
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1. BrianSD writes:
I think overall the metal scene is close-minded. He asks a lot of good and valid questions. You have a huge amount of people that bash any band that had any kind of success, some I agree aren't as deserving as others...there are alway exceptions.