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Forbidden's Craig Locicero Interviews "Occupy Oakland" Protestors

Footage has been posted online of Forbidden's Craig Locicero interviewing protesters and participants at Occupy Oakland before a live show. You can check out the footage below.

In other Forbidden news, the band also recently announced the recruitment of drummer Sasha Horn, with full details available at this location.

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44 Comments on "Forbidden Interviews 'Occupy Oakland' Protestors"

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btbamfav20's avatar

Member

1. btbamfav20 writes:

That's great! Forbidden is the first band i've heard of that's gone down to any protest... these things needs more movements, more intelligent minds going down there. Not the rabble and unfortunates of the world...

NP: Russian Roulette - Made Of Hate

# Nov 14, 2011 @ 1:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
2. ab croatia writes:

of course that first metal bend forbidden that
join the protests becuse forbidden dont do it
for self-promotion .

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 10:29 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Rex_84's avatar

Writer

3. Rex_84 writes:

Forbidden actually believes in the cause. Just read the lyrics to their new album.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 11:12 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

4. BrianMN writes:

What exactly IS the cause?
Yeah I know they're against corporate greed.
That's all fine and dandy but without a set list of goals, demands, zero leadership and a momement that is quickly disintegrating (woman raped in tent) into complete chaos.....you can kind of see why the average Joe/Joan no longer cares about a bunch of Patchouli oil wearing, stinky neo hippies who have accomplished nothing.
And worse yet, don’t seem to WANT to accomplish anything other than create disorder.
I’m still waiting for that list of what they want……
Until then, go home and take a bath.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 11:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

5. hellrat writes:

I fvcking hate hippies...and I fvcking despise misguided righteous trustafari yippie hypocrites even more

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 11:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

6. Diamond Oz writes:

Agreed 100% with Brian. Mum didn't buy me an iPad 2. I am the 99%.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 11:32 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RTB's avatar

Member

7. RTB writes:

WRTF is rage against the machine at?
Surprised those commi bastards arent putting on a live show, or a hands across america type of pharse..
I got my lynchin rope RAT, load up the truck with a posse of beerbellys, pick me up, i ll have a keg of souther cross beer in hand and lets go to oakland and kick some azz
Np lord have mercy by black oak arkansas

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 11:52 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

8. hellrat writes:

10-4 Captain...all in \m/

NP---Kill Hippies Dead---Bastard Lord

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 12:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

9. BrianMN writes:

LOL, thanks RTB, Hellrat and Oz.
I was expecting my inflammatory comments to get some backlash.
I really have no problem with the anti-greed/anti bail out train of thought.
These protesters aren't accomplishing anything though.
If you're not happy with the current group of politicians then vote them out next time.
If American's want less greed, less bail outs then start voting in more independents and less career politicians.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 12:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

10. hellrat writes:

^nah brother, thank YOU...for articulating an evidently shared sentiment that I was much too irritated to be able to express at this particular juncture :)

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 12:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Rex_84's avatar

Writer

11. Rex_84 writes:

For one, not everyone there is a hippy or communist. There are people from all walks of life, including soldiers.

Two, they do have a list of demands:
http://www.occupywallstreetdemands.com/

Three, good luck with the voting process. If you haven't significant'y funded a candidate, then don't expect him/her to represent you in any way.

Some have complained that our people aren't doing anything, while countries like Greece have rioted. Now they are and the corporatist media can't deny this is happening, even though they have tried to compromise and demonize the movement.

It's perfectly within our rights to protest. Our Constitution grants us this right. Take away these rights and we'll be nothing more than a dictatorship. Besides, if you don't think protesting gets anything done, just read a history book about the Vietnam war.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 2:37 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

12. BrianMN writes:

^^^Fair enough, the demands I agree with.
The protesting isn't doing squat however.
#1 They're completely disorganized.
#2 Where is the leadership?
#3 Like it or not you need both of the above as well as financial backing from the mainstream business world if you think this movement has a chance of long term success.
As far as Vietnam?
That was in the 60's...sorry but times have changed.
Greece?
Are you in favor of riots and murder?
As much as everyone b***** the super rich run, not just this country but the world.
Always has been, always will be.
You can rally against it all you want but that one fact will never change.
You're right, it's not fair that such a small group controlls everything but there is no real solution.
Violence will gain you nothing but a smack down from the police.
Protests induce general eye rolling from the public.
The best you (we) can do is educate....and good luck with that since the spin doctors control every media outlet there is.
Thoughts?

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 3:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Rex_84's avatar

Writer

13. Rex_84 writes:

Brian, you have such a bleak and hopeless outlook. I've heard the argument from my father who lived through the sixties and if that is the case it's because we, the people, have allowed our power to slip away. As far as I know the Constitution still exists and if we don't excercise our rights, especially now in the age of cyberspace, then we might as well just burn it. At that point, it no longer matters. Yes, education is key, just try to separate the lies from the truth, fact from fiction, and find the truth according to your own beliefs and schema. And yes, voting in a third party will hope elicit real change. People have such a hopeless mentality, though, thinking a vote for anything other than a Dem or Rep is a wasted vote. Voting the same way and expecting change is nothing short of insanity.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 3:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

14. BrianMN writes:

Bleak and hopeless or just realistic?
The majority of people, not just American's but worldwide are too stupid to think for themselves.
Past, present and future.
People ponder how people like Stalin and Hilter rose to power but it's really so simple.
People WANT to be lead.
People don't want to think.
People are fat, stupid and lazy. (Scratch the fat part, I got that one covered). :)
.....and drunk too. :)
Not at the moment but Friday's right around the corner.
Ahem...
I'll tell you a funny story about how brainwashed the general public is ten years after 9/11.
When good old G Dubbya's got busted illegally tapping and recording peoples phone calls I made my feelings well known.
You know what the majority of co-workers reaction was?
"Well, what do YOU have to hide?"
I was like......EXCUSE ME????
Aren't you missing the point?
I even had one guy demand my last name.
Yes, he wanted my last name, god only knows he was probably going to run a background check on me lol.
That is just how out of control and brainwashed people are in this country.
It's scary and it's only going to get worse.
You take away their rights and they applaud.
You start phony wars and they applaud.
America's empire building days are numbered.
We're screwing ourselves so badly world wide it's not even funny.
But try and tell the sheep that it's not our job to police the entire planet and they turn around and call you a terrorist.
I really wish I had a reasonable solution but I don't.
How do you fix worldwide stupid?
And lastly you mention our constitution.
Our constitution hasnt' mattered in a LONG time.
Ask how many people what America is and 99% of them call us a "democracy".
Even our own leaders call us that.
Tell them that we're technically a constitutional republic and they look at you like you just grew an additional limb out of your forehead.
Now where the heck is Drum Junkie?
I'm sure he'll have some interesting insight......

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 3:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RTB's avatar

Member

15. RTB writes:

Me and Rat had some good satire going on here and come rex and brian and turn this into a serious debate, WTF!
their is no possible way to break up the occupiers across america into a certain percentage of people, some are hippies, modern day and ol school, some say they are people who are frustrated with the economy because they cant find a job, which is bullsh!t, theyre jobs all over, get off your azz and find one and stop mooching off your parents and the goverment, the soilder reference was from the incident in oakland i believe but im sure there are more..
In the totality of things im guessing these people are protesting the wall st fatcats, a high percentage of the rich who dont pay enough taxes, the pizz poor economy, gas prices and who knows what else...if people wanna protest a cause peacefully IDGAS, just so long your not physically threatening anyone,for me i got better things to do, 2 jobs, and music project, sports to watch,metal to listen to, shows to go to and beer to drink....

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 6:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

16. Drum_Junkie writes:

You rang? :)

I really don't have alot of insight on the occupy movements, but here are my thoughts...

BrianMN, It's pretty clear that you and Rex_84 are dissatisfied with the shape that this country is in - as am I. While your 'realistic' attitude, may accurately reflect the current state, but the question to me is what needs to be done about it. If you accept the current reality as unchangable, it's a slippery slope to complacency. I haven't seen anything in your comments as far a suggestions for action, except to educate. And I think that is a great step that should be done in parallel with raising awareness. (two sides of the same coin). I don't think we should lie down and take it. Make your opinion known. If someone questions your motives, educate them. If they start to question your 'patriotism' or some bullsh!t like that, then their avoiding the issues that your raising. Call them on it. Don't remain silent and accept it.

Now, back to the Occupy movement. Is it disorganized? Yes. BUT, so were the Vietnam protests. Are there 'hippies' protesting and criminal activity occurring? Yes. BUT, the movement as a whole can't be judged on the actions of a few.

What the Occupy movement is doing well is raising awareness.

Where it can do more is by educating and getting the message out about the vast income disparity.

As a culture, we always expect immediate or near immediate results. We want what we want and we want it now! Socio-economic changes are going to take time, possibly generations. The income inequality didn't happen overnight, it happened over several decades. If it gets rebalanced, it's likely going to take several decades. If we as a people want to affect that change, we must accept that the recovery of the middle class will be slow. And the GROWTH of the middle class will be even slower. But, if we sit back and complain that the people in power have all the power and accept our 'powerlessness' as an inevitability, then we have lost. What's more, our children have lost. There are greater things at stake than our personal well-being. There are the future generations to think about. What are we doing to ensure that our country will be able to provide the opportunities we and our previous generations have had?
The Occupy movements aren't perfect, no movement is. But, it reflects the feelings of a significant sector of our population. It is a good representation of three important words of our government: "We the people".
If they continue to raise awareness, improve on their educational efforts, and remain vigilant in seeking out public relations opportunities, then the movement will grow and influence the political landscape as well. Hopefully, it will encourage more thoughtful voting and cause more people to research the issues and not get sidetracked by the mass media. It's not going to happen overnight, but if you give up, the change won't happen ever.

Allright, there's my rant. Hope it made some sense. I just whipped this one out with out forming any sort of structure.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 6:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

17. Drum_Junkie writes:

RTB and Hellrat: I did get a chuckle out of your posts.

I agree that people need to be searching for work, if they don't have a job. I do wonder what kinds of jobs are out there. I am very fortunate that I have a decent job. I'm living paycheck to paycheck and don't have much saved away, but I'm treading water. What I do see that can be improved relates back to the income disparity. That is my personal gripe that I think drives a lot of the other economic hardships.

The way I interpret things, this nation has shifted from a industrial manufacturing base to a service industry. We need to get back to MAKING things. If the corporations would shift some of the profits and wages from the overpaid high level executives to the lower level workers (the people actually manufacturing the products they're profiting from), then the lower level workers could afford to buy more goods and stimulate the economy from the ground up. If corporations would bring even 5% of the overseas jobs back home, that would drive down unemployment, and give people a wage to go out and buy the products. The shrinking middle class is creating a house of cards, where if the income distribution gets more lopsided, then the "99%" go bankrupt. Then where will the "1%" get their money from.

I don't have a problem with working hard and earning a living. Everyone should seek out the value in a job well done. But back to the income disparity. The people who are in the upper class do not make a product. The people in the finance industry do not make anything. They simply take someone elses end product, repackage it and resell it for profit. It's financial masturbation. And they are the one raking in the dough. What skills do they have? Could they build a home? doubtful, but they've sure sold, resol, reresold and rereresold a sh!t ton of them. So, in all this disorganized rant of mine, my point is that the balance needs to shift from the executives toward the middle class. The reason is to properly reward the right people fairly for the work performed.

If the Occupy movement can get THAT message out there, that would be a good thing.

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 7:02 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

18. BrianMN writes:

Thank you Drum Junkie.
I agree with all your points.
This whole ordeal did not happen overnight.
I honestly don't even know where to begin trying to fix all the problems this country has.
The Wallstreet gang needs to do a better job at getting their message out there. As my first post indicates I was totally in the dark as most people are.
I haven't talked to one person who understands what these people really want.
They are in desperate need of spokes people.
Have I rolled over and just accepted our fate?
I think to a certain degree...yes.
I know that makes me sound really bad but I've argued this stuff with people on the left and right for years and it never did a bit of good.
The majority of people don't want to be bothered with reality until something significant, usually bad, happens to them personally.
We've gone from "united we stand" to "every man for himself" in this country.
Can it be fixed?
Perhaps.....
Back to the protesters....
Yes, they have every right to do what they're doing I just don't think their methods are effective.
I think the public has gone from being mildly interested to just outright annoyed.
They really need to do a better job at conveying what they're after and until they do that.
Until they get some leadership.
Until they get some major backing from the private and public sector I don't see this movement as something that can be sustained long term.
Just wait till the wind chills are minus 40 degrees.
That patchouli oil will freeze and fall right off to the sidewalk below. . :)
Sorry RTB and Hell...who said MU counldn't be fun and interesting?
This beats the heck out of Topix. :)
But like you guys, I also have a job.
Not a great one but it pays the bills.
I wish I had greater insight as to what would fix this whole mess but I don't.
Sorry I wish I could say more but the lady on the ride home was wearing "Angel"....if you've never smelled the perfume Angel....well....once you smell it you'll never forget it. A half hour of whiffing something that is a combination of chocolate, caramel, b.o....with just a hint of insect repellent and I can barely think at all.
A chocolate, mosquito covered vile concoction of catastrophic craptastic crud!!!
(Say that five times really fast without f****** it up) :)
Later......

# Nov 15, 2011 @ 7:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
deathbringer's avatar

Founder, owner & programmer

19. deathbringer writes:

People say "there is no message" but it's funny how the average Joe can distill the essence of it better than Fox News. I have a somewhat bleak view of it all too. What's happening right now will not change anything. It's a sign however, and if not heeded, things will escalate. I really don't think we're going to see real change through anything less than a revolution. The "1%" balk at the mere mention of paying more taxes (e.g., rolling back the Bush tax cuts, which favored them) like you're stealing from them. Once the power and wealth is obtained and the way has been paved through legislation and govt buyouts, why and how will those people give up anything they've obtained (I won't say "earned" because much of it is through not-so legit means, and even what is, many of those people pay less taxes (%) on that income than the middle class) of their own volition? They now feel entitled to it, even more than the rest of our entitlement fueled society.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 12:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

20. Drum_Junkie writes:

Allright, one last post before bed. (and to think, I probably would have remained quiet if BrianMN hadn't solicited a response. :) )

In thinking about the Occupy movement, I almost wonder who they are talking to. Who is their message directed at? If it is directed at the 1%, then they might as well be protesting a brick wall. The uber-rich are likely annoyed, but not concerned. Maybe the message is for everyone to encourage all of us to take a greater role in our government and demand a larger say in the political spectrum. Something has got to happen to break the gridlock present in congress now. A new party is needed, or at least a larger contingent of Independents. I think a good action to take would be for the occupiers to gather volunteers from each area and send them to march on Congress and get their voices heard there. That is where the change can happen. I just looked at the OccupyDC website and thought it seemed pretty coherent and well laid out. Maybe the 'representatives' who would travel to DC could get some face time with their congressperson - Rep to rep if you will.
One common thread through all the occupy locations echoes my gripe above - the income inequality.
When you get hired by an employer, you negotiate your pay. Much of this is cut and dried without much latitude, but it is an agreement between you and your employer.
Even if you own your own small business, your pay is dictated by the amount people are willing to pay minus your overhead costs. My argument is this. In those scenarios there is a set of checks and balances. You're not going to demand $15/hr to flip burgers and get it. You're not going to charge customers $1,000 to mow their lawn and be successful. With the top 10% richest people in the US, there is little oversight to their pay. They primarily set their own wages and are far removed from their company's product revenue. What mechanism is in place to limit their pay? Whatever mechanism is there, it is weak and largely ineffective. So what should be done about it? Its obvious that they won't police themselves and are unwilling to enact corporate standards to limit their pay - just like Congress votes whether or not to give themselves raises. (I believe that is still the case).
So, should we ask the government to enact some oversight laws? Perhaps where a CEO cannot make more than 75x the amount of the average blue collar wage within that company? Or maybe put their raises to a vote from the employees, where they have to get a 25% approval?
I don't necessarily know that those are the correct things to do, but I feel strongly that some oversight is needed, preferably from outside of government, but that may not be realistic without government involvement/intrusion.
They have no incentive to change, so what incentive can we provide them?
Anyone else have ideas?

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 1:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
deathbringer's avatar

Founder, owner & programmer

21. deathbringer writes:

You can't really limit someone's earnings. That's socialism :-) But they can and should be taxed a little more on those upper tier earnings. There are a lot of specifics that I'm not interested in rehashing really. Some of the half-assed "solutions" being discussed to our deficit involved closing some of the tax shelters that benefit only the rich (since raising taxes is a no-no). It's a start at least if they get any of those through. Earnings on stocks/investments are capped at a 15 or 18% tax rate, which is where many of the rich make significant portions (sometimes all of) their money. The reasons for the lower rate are to "encourage investment" but if there's money to be made, people will invest. It's more of the "trickle down" mentality, which doesn't really work.

The real question is whether these baby steps will come fast enough to make an impact and appease the masses. If things remain bad for the working class (higher unemployment + wealth gap), people's patience will wear thin. I have never had a problem getting a job, but I feel for the people who have not been so fortunate and struggle in a lopsided society that tries to take more away from them, especially those who have health issues in our system that more or less says "your on your own."

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 8:29 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

22. BrianMN writes:

I'd like to say that both of you DJ and DB have made excellent points.
I don't really have anything left to add to the discussion except that...well..go to Topix or any of the other sites where this sort of thing is discussed daily.
Especially DJ every goon from the Tea Party would be calling you a commie and a liberal. Everyone on the left would be saying you're not extreme enough.
Also remember that the right and left wing both employ people to blog to keep their message out there constantly.
It's just maddening, the whole thing.
I think I got most burnt out writing about the cross eyed badger (Scott Walker) and what he's doing to Wisconsistan.
Uugh, some days I just want to plug my ears and start screaming.."I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!".
Lastly for the occupy protesters...best wishes, I hope their message gets heard but another thing that will hinder them is their stance on illegal immigration.
As we all know, if you're in favor of securing the borders...you're a racist.
Ok, I'm done.........what?
I CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE!!!!! :)

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 9:07 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

23. Drum_Junkie writes:

DB: True, salary capping is socialistic, but so is Medicare. :)

When you think about it, the pay multiplier suggestion is not really putting a hard limit on executive compensation, but striking a balance across the work force. Essentially, if the executives are at the 75x multiplier limit and want a raise, then they have to increase the pay to the lower level employees. This ties upper managment pay more closely to the revenue stream of the corporation and prevents them from skimming all (or most of) the profits off the top. Just using the 75x figure as an example. if the ave. blue collar wage is $55,000/yr, then the CEO could make as much as $4.125mil. That's over 7x what the president makes. I agree wholeheartedly on removing the tax shelters. There is no silver bullet and it will require many different approaches to get the middle class healthy again.
It's doubtful that these baby steps will come fast enough. I hope that people's patience is already thin with government, and that they will be more vocal in their opposition to pocket stuffing going on. The health care system is a whole other topic that is FUBAR.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 9:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

24. Drum_Junkie writes:

BrianMN:
"Especially DJ every goon from the Tea Party would be calling you a commie and a liberal. Everyone on the left would be saying you're not extreme enough."

Perfect, right in the center where I want to be. :)

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 9:26 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
deathbringer's avatar

Founder, owner & programmer

25. deathbringer writes:

I'm pretty sure this sums it up. :-)

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 10:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

26. Drum_Junkie writes:

^HA! Nice...

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 12:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

27. BrianMN writes:

^^^ So true. :)

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 12:17 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrunoHockalugie's avatar

Member

28. BrunoHockalugie writes:

What I see is a vast number of people in this nation who are not satisfied with what our elected officials have done to our country. More and more people are not happy with the two party system, and we no longer trust our politicians.

In the past couple years we have seen the mainstream rise of two protest groups who both feel that the country is heading in the wrong direction.

There is the Taxed Enough Party (TEA) Party, which believes that fundamentally the government has grown bloated, ineffective, and cannot be sustained at it's current level. Their view is that this country is dominated by a political ruling class that has too much power over the average American's life. Now we are seeing the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement, which is for increasing the size of government and regulation. These people believe that it is the government's role to regulate every aspect of our lives, from wages to credit rates to home mortgages.

Really there are two sides of the same coin, just one is for scaling government back and one is for giving the government more power than they ever have previously held.

This country is more divided since probably the Civil War. next year's election is one of the most important in the history of the country. At least people are finally paying attention.

As far the guy in the White House, according to Politico, his campaign in 2008 raised more money from the financial community than any other politician in American history. According to Reuters, Wall Street accounted for 20 percent of the president’s campaign funds because of a massive cash haul from Goldman Sachs, AIG, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup.

Read more:http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67770.html


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/67770.html#ixzz1dtRYw7Qp

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 1:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrunoHockalugie's avatar

Member

29. BrunoHockalugie writes:

What I see is a vast number of people in this nation who are not satisfied with what our elected officials have done to our country. More and more people are not happy with the two party system, and we no longer trust our politicians.

In the past couple years we have seen the mainstream rise of two protest groups who both feel that the country is heading in the wrong direction.

There is the Taxed Enough Party (TEA) Party, which believes that fundamentally the government has grown bloated, ineffective, and cannot be sustained at it's current level. Their view is that this country is dominated by a political ruling class that has too much power over the average American's life. Now we are seeing the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement, which is for increasing the size of government and regulation. These people believe that it is the government's role to regulate every aspect of our lives, from wages to credit rates to home mortgages.

Really there are two sides of the same coin, just one is for scaling government back and one is for giving the government more power than they ever have previously held.

This country is more divided since probably the Civil War. next year's election is one of the most important in the history of the country. At least people are finally paying attention.

As far the guy in the White House, according to Politico, his campaign in 2008 raised more money from the financial community than any other politician in American history. According to Reuters, Wall Street accounted for 20 percent of the president’s campaign funds because of a massive cash haul from Goldman Sachs, AIG, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Citigroup.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 1:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrianMN's avatar

Member

30. BrianMN writes:

The Tea Party started out fine until it was taken over by religious zealots who turned it into the strong arm branch of the Repubs.
The Tea Party is irrelevant now.
You made other good points though.
My vote goes for Paul.
He's the only one that isn't the worlds biggest sell out.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 1:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
deathbringer's avatar

Founder, owner & programmer

31. deathbringer writes:

Bruno, I don't agree that OWS *wants* to expand government. I don't think that is part of the agenda at all. Perhaps it's deemed more acceptable if the ends justify the means, whereas the right tends to want it reduced at any expense. I always stop short of recommending govt oversight when it comes up. It's usually the least ideal solution of many possible, or just taking a solution too far. That said, I am all for better/expanded/more available healthcare (socialist, I know) vs reducing these sorts of benefits for the sake of reducing govt. Health is not something that everyone can control and should not impact their financial livelihood as much as it can in our country. If you're healthy and make a good living, count yourself lucky.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 2:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrunoHockalugie's avatar

Member

32. BrunoHockalugie writes:

DB- Bottom line is all of their demands have to be practically implemented and the only way to do that is to have the government expand it's tentacles into more sectors of the economy and our personal lives. Sadly, most of the OWS made their "wish-list" without properly and critically realizing the means to achieve what they are demanding.

What I always keep in mind is, whatever freedom you give to the government is gone forever. The temptation to have the government "fix" everything may be great, but in my opinion most of society's ills are from a government that is easily bought and sold with lobbyists in Washington DC. Giving more power to the crooks in Washington hardly makes sense to me, as they have screwed the average middle class worker again and again and again. I do not believe the logical that if we give them more power, they will finally get it right.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 2:53 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BrunoHockalugie's avatar

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33. BrunoHockalugie writes:

As far as healthcare, I shudder to think of Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank or Chris Dodd or Mitch McConnel or John Boehner or any other piece of sh** politician having ANYTHING to do with health care decisions and budgeting.
You really trust them to take care of the entire nation's health issues? We have seen how they run Medicare and Medicaid, the programs are broke and on the brink of insolvency. If the past fifty years has shown us anything, it is that the federal government should have absolutely nothing to do with health care, in my opinion.

# Nov 16, 2011 @ 2:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

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34. Drum_Junkie writes:

Thanks for the thoughts Bruno. I agree with the view that our government is mismanaged and I am not a fan of the polarized two-party system, either. I do think we differ on our interpretations of the aims and agendas of the TEA party and the OWS movement. For one, the TEA party has become a far right political party, related to but still distinct from the Republican party. They have members in congress and also the lobbyists that come with that. The OWS has no political affiliation, no representation in congress and no lobbyists. The following taken from the primary OWS website:

**Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.
This ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society.**

I’m not reading anywhere in there about increasing the size of government or relying on government to take care of them. It appears that they are trying to grow the movement large enough that they shift some control of wealth away from the 1% that controls over 40% of the US. If government listens and enacts fiscally responsible policies to promote a healthy wealth distribution, then that would be a win for the OWS, but they’re not relying on the government to do it. They are acting out on their own and making their voices heard. I have to applaud them for exercising their rights to free speech. Essentially, they are raising awareness, which is a primary goal of Arab Spring tactics.
cont...

# Nov 17, 2011 @ 4:42 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

35. Drum_Junkie writes:

...cont.
This awareness will hopefully filter into the upcoming 2012 elections. People need to be very critical of our currently elected officials and hold them accountable by using the aggregate power of our votes. We need to look deeper than the campaign promises and focus on the actions they have taken and the experience they have. One very disappointing realization I’ve had about our current congress, is that the vast majority are career politicians, with no job experience outside law or politics. Only 7 were engineers, 6 scientists, 24 in the medical field, and a smattering of others with previous short lived non political occupations. We need to elect people with real world experience. But it’s hard to compete with career politicians who have a well established network of donors (Lobbyists). That’s why I think the campaign playing field needs to be leveled. Enact campaign limitations, so reasonable people can run and that limit the focus of campaigns to their own accomplishments, views, goals. Stop throwing money at mudslinging. That would reduce the escalating fundraising that’s going on. The fact that Obama raised a record amount for his campaign had every bit to do with the amount of money the 1% had available to throw at him. They are also equally to blame because they chose to put their money on him. It doesn’t matter what Obama’s views are, they saw him as the winning candidate. If they saw the McCain-Palin ticket as the winning one, you bet your a$$ that campaign would have set the record. They knew with the anti-Bush, anti-Repub. climate of 2008 that the Democrat would be easier to elect. There needs to be fundraising limitations enacted to limit the influence of 1% and better balance the 1 person, 1 vote ideal.

Occupy Wallstreet is raising awareness of these things. I don’t think they’re going any time soon. Check out this video from cnn: video/news/2011/11/16/n_sachs_occupy_history.cnnmoney/?iid=HP_River

If we actually get people elected that know what the fvck their talking about, maybe they can slowly get things straightened out to where the government can more wisely spend our tax dollars more effectively to handle the things that government should.

As far as the TEA party goes, I don’t think they understand how to reduce spending any better than the rest of congress. I haven’t seen any sound proposals that take into account the ramifications of the spending cuts. How does the TEA party plan to cut education without hurting the countries future? How does the TEA party plan to cut healthcare costs without impacting senior citizens and the disabled? Should we just let them fend for themselves? Tell that to James Murphy. The government should have OUR back on healthcare. How do we as individuals (or even states run healthcare) stand up to the huge insurance and pharmaceutical conglomerates that set prices purely by supply and demand without regard to human decency? We need at least some government assistance with healthcare. If I am being forced to handle a situation, but am not given the means to do so, I will expect some assistance. I’m not asking for a handout, just for what I cannot do with my own resources. I don’t trust the current congress to handle it, but I can’t trust the TEA party slash, slash, slash method, either. We need new blood with the proper background and education – not law or business degrees. We have plenty of those already. This all starts with awareness, and that is what the OWS is trying to do - all politics aside.

# Nov 17, 2011 @ 4:43 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

36. hellrat writes:

Geez Looeeez...a guy turns around to take a p!ss, and THIS is what happens? Ya RT, it was fun for a second there ;)

someone said something about "voting the same way is nothing short of insanity"...ya, well, "believing Democracy as it exists now is ANYthing other than a goddamned hoax is nothing short of delusional"

Nature, and Global Economics, make the world go round...EVERYthing else is subsidary...there is no fvcking religion, no fvcking politics, NO sovereign nations; there is only Fabrication of Notion, and the propaganda to 'support' it

And yes, it is the methodology of this pack of curs that I find irksome...you know, it is said that hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue...my, that's convenient, ain't it?

NP---Millions of Dead Hippies---Can't Change the World :)

# Nov 19, 2011 @ 8:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
btbamfav20's avatar

Member

37. btbamfav20 writes:

I really don't understand a lot of this sh** thats been on here... not because im ignorant (which im not) but because of the idiotic reactions people are having to these protests.

Someone earlier said it wasn't organized. Are you f***ing kidding me? when over 1500 cities WORLDWIDE come out to protest on oct 15th at the same time, seems very organized to me.
But your probably referring to what they're "accomplishing", like world hunger, national debt, and global warming can be solved by uneducated people in under a month.... Get your heads out of your asses and open your eyes and mind a little bit and you'll understand that the movement has already addressed and made many points. The public is just too dumb and apathetic to realize they've been told. Government greed is a great thing to address, when all everyone is trying to be is the #1______. By telling everyone that they're greedy and need to learn to find equilibrium, a valid point has been made.

There are also many discussions on the fractional reserve banking system u guys in the states have set up, on the real Qaddafi and his pre-assassination policies he had set up in his country (like free electricity, education, and water. the Libyan government paid for half your car, gas was $0.14/L), and the monetary system as a whole as the basis of all our corruption.

And another thing people need to get over is that fact that they are wrong. Wrong in the way that they've believed all their life that the government and money and politics have served the purpose of taking care of the greater population. They get mad, just like when religious zealots are told there isnt a god, that they're WRONG. Instead of being happy that they're at a high state of knowledge, they get mad that they are wrong.
So put your learning cap on and learn, REALLY learn. Go watch some documentaries, there's TONS out there.

# Nov 20, 2011 @ 3:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

38. wilco writes:

agreed f***ing hipies hate them as well
get a f***ing job stop b****ing
like us most metal heads are working blue collar people
and we dont b****

like with greece f*** them all they dont have money
but still they have money to buy 200 tanks guess i ma part owner now of a tank they did buy it with the tax money from europe
let them go bankt rubt and solve that sh** them self

# Nov 20, 2011 @ 3:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

39. Drum_Junkie writes:

* Shakes d***, zips fly, then turns back around *
Oh hey, Hellrat posted. *reads HR comments*

What don't you like about the OWS methodology?
What methods do you disagree with?
How do you suggest they raise their concerns and achieve their goal of awareness?
I suppose the first questions I should have asked is
Do you agree or disagree that there is a widening income gap between the richest 1% and the other 99% of us?
If you agree that there is, then do you think that the gap is acceptable?

# Nov 21, 2011 @ 9:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

40. hellrat writes:

n-na-nah-NO brother DJ, I decline to take such a shoddy bait ;)

If you actually HAD read and understood my last comment, you would have realized that asking me whether I 'agree' or 'accept' that there exists a yawning disparity between the financial elite and the '99%' (sensationalist exageration) is ENTIRELY irrelevent :)

The OWS approach can be compared to an overpriveleged, underachieving step child in an aristocratic household throwing an indulgently dramatic tantrum over what fair 'compensation' should be for his worthless fvcking existance...yet, to openly dicipline him would be unseemly, so rather he is placated AGAIN; whilst the head of household's plans and executions go on largely unaffected, and the servants (the REAL '99%') are left to clean up the mess

You want change? Your cause is just? Then there should be no problem creating a powerful lobby that can actually influence legislation; and no problem raising the finances for a relatively respectable campaign of awareness...you don't take to the streets like a mob of spoilt, HYPOCRITICAL neo-idealist Robin Hoods and expect ANY respect from me...what is it again that these jackoffs have ACCOMPLISHED??

Fvcking yippees try to block me from doing legal business, or encroach upon my place of residence like the disgusting and despicable a pack of feral curs they choose to emulate; well, I break out the goddamned sh!t kickers, and take NO fvcking prisoners :)

Also, I am under NO obligation to favor a 'side' in this contention...I am free to despise them all

Now, it is rather distastefully redundant for me to expound and pontificate any further here, as my viewpoint and OPINION concerning such matters is rather well documented in the archives of this comment board ;)

NP---Three Days Of Darkness---the Gathering

# Nov 22, 2011 @ 11:41 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

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41. Drum_Junkie writes:

My bad.... Shouldn't have wasted our time with a rhetorical question, eh? ;)

I guess we are looking at two different groups within the OWS movement. I do see the hippy freeloaders you refer to, and I find it hard to disagree with accuracy of your analogy when describing those vocal people. They have been successful in putting a poor face on the movement. I guess I've been choosing to focus on the others who are actually working within OWS. There are others who have jobs, are rotating out their days and balancing their work schedule to remain gainfully employed while supporting the OWS efforts. There are also small business owners in the movement who are frustrated by their difficulty to compete with finances and economies of scale that the big corporations have.

Whether the cause is just really has no bearing in the political success. In order to successfully lobby for changes this large, you need significant financial backing. The goal of the OWS was to create a respectable campaign of awareness, but not to do it through the political system, as it is broken. If politics only exists due to the propaganda that supports the notion(s), then why would the OWS have any desire to play that game when the deck stacked against them?
As far as the accomplishments, time will tell if they make any lasting impression or if they become a pimple on Father Times' a$$. They have aroused the ire of the Law firm representing the ABA (American Bankers Association). Enough where they are funding a smear campaign against the OWS. So there is at least a current threat large enough for them to spend of money on. The 2012 elections will be a key indicator of the OWS ability to effect change. If voter turnout is measurably higher, than the OWS may be a factor. Time will tell on that.

Sorry about asking you to choose sides. I forgot about the nondiscriminatory option C - fvck 'em all. :D

# Nov 22, 2011 @ 6:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
deathbringer's avatar

Founder, owner & programmer

42. deathbringer writes:

I think you got it right though DJ - it's about raising awareness. Those who focus on the negatives of the movement and try to pigeonhole all the people out there into one group just don't want to deal with the message and are seeking a way to summarily dismiss it. And it [OWS] has succeeded in raising awareness as well as shifting the political focus, which had largely been dominated by the right since the TEA party's rise in attention. OWS has opened a can of worms on the political front that cannot be ignored and changed the way this election will play out, IMHO.

# Nov 23, 2011 @ 1:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
hellrat's avatar

Member

43. hellrat writes:

"Those who focus on the negatives of the movement and try to pigeonhole all the people out there into one group just don't want to deal with the message and are seeking a way to summarily dismiss it." good grief, the irony! :)

DJ, its never a waste of time conversing with you brother

I should have made it more clear that the entire first part of my third real paragraph was sardonic rhetoric...of course the system is fvckin jacked, but we have to work with it legitimately. Its HOW awareness is raised that qualifies a notion's potential for success, and yes, it takes a lot of fvckin duckets, organization, and leadership to do it professionally...I don't see these buggers being very constructive thus far.

But yes, time will tell indeed...hell, our dear old ex-gov Gary "Sparky" Johnson actually took a day off from the brutal and backbreaking work of puffing marleys and skiing pow all day just to go let them know in person that he thinks they're really great :)

So ya never know eh ;)

NP---I Still Hate Hippies---Forever! :)

# Nov 23, 2011 @ 9:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Drum_Junkie's avatar

Member

44. Drum_Junkie writes:

HR, I also enjoy our discussions, brother. Much respect!

I still disagree that going through political channels is the only legitimate way to raise awareness. It may be the professional way to do it, but I think alot of compromises to integrity are inevitable. That compromise inherent in current politics leads to a watered down message, which nullifies the awareness you're trying to raise in the first place. The hi-jacking of the TEA party and the Republican Party is a prime example. It's obvious that Romney is the unwanted frontrunner toward the upcoming nomination, but what is his message? It changes daily. Ron Paul is pretty outspoken and on topic, but even fundraising is no match for the corporate backing of the others. And what about the other lesser known Republican candidates like Huntsman and Gary Johnson?

I hadn't even heard about GJ, but what I've read so far I like. I like that he's got a Bachelor of SCIENCE degree, built his own construction business, and even is own home. We need more people like him that understand the value of hard work. I don't agree with him on everything, but he makes some great points on a few topics, like immigration, taxes and pot legalization. I'll be digging further into his other positions.
How did New Mexico do during his two terms as Governor?

# Nov 28, 2011 @ 5:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address

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