"some music was meant to stay underground..."

Black Metal Sect Arrested For Desecrating Churches

Tim Finan from Telegraph.co.uk is reporting:

A court in Brittany heard yesterday how four members of a fanatical black metal anti-Christian sect went on alcohol fuelled rampages smashing ancient granite crosses in cemeteries and torching a 16th century chapel classified as an ancient monument.

With a satanic bible in the boot of their car and using a tourist guide to pilgrimage sites they selected holy places of worship where they claimed Catholic saints had raised ancient Celtic pagan monuments replacing them with Christian churches and chapels.

They scrawled satanic symbols and inverted crosses on premises they defiled - all in the name of their sect, True Armorik Black Metal.
The Court heard how two of the group all aged in their twenties were members of a black metal music group, the words in their songs glorified Hitler as the new anti-Christ and invoked scenes from The Silence Of The Lambs.

In Court in Quimper the defendants all from western Brittany, denied worshipping Satan and having adulated Hitler and the Nazi Party.

An "orgy of profanity" culminated on the night of June 15th, 2007 when the four set fire to the ancient Chapel of the Cross near Loqueffret, a granite Chapel situated in the depths of the Huelgoat Forest. They broke into the Chapel and torched ancient oak pews and closets using petrol from a plastic can.

Source: The Telegraph

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220 Comments on "Black Metal Sect Arrested For Desecrating Churches"

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crazedmind's avatar

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1. crazedmind writes:

if you hate christians for defacing pagan monuments hundreds of years in the past, how does destroying their monuments in the current day make you any better? your not a hero of f***ing paganism, your just as retarded

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 7:02 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
2. Rake writes:

wow that sh**'s funny! what losers........"true Armorik black metal" - thats hilarious

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 7:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

3. Diamond Oz writes:

Dammit Kali I thought I told you to stop this!

Now playing: Halford - In The Morning

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 7:07 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

4. psythe writes:

Sigh. Way to give Black Metal a decent reputation. This is why people dislike metalheads. They think we're all angry, immature f***tards. How are we supposed to garner respect in the global community when morons do this kind of sh**? I'm no fan of Christianity, but knocking down a cross or burning a church only hurts our cause.

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 7:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

5. InfernoNecrosis writes:

You know what would be really funny? Seeing the houses of these people get burned.

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 7:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
xFiruath's avatar

Content Manager

6. xFiruath writes:

Burning churches just garners sympathy for them. Christians have a big enough martyr complex as it is without giving them reason to make it worse.

Sorry to hear about the Hitler part too, because it will link Nazi beliefs to black metal in the public eye. I thought we got over this in the early 90s, but apparently not.

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 7:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
7. Kali writes:

I sit on the fence with this topic, but do know one thing. If I was to burn a church would do my research first.

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 8:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
8. Miss Blue writes:

That's what drugs does kiddies.lmao

# Feb 26, 2009 @ 10:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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9. Netromancer writes:

What's that? Induce improper grammar?

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 12:54 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RIFF-MASTER's avatar

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10. RIFF-MASTER writes:

^ hahaha...nice

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 1:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
11. SNAKE!!! writes:

as a musician, i love black metal, but you don't disrespect anyone, or their religion, christians, satanists, etc, to tell the truth i have a friend whos a satanist, this burning churches is a classic trend in the black metal scence, early to present, nazism can also be involved in black metal, look at Marduk, they are satanist and neo-nazi, Varg of Burzum who is known for burning churches, but never convicted, well back to Marduk, another way you can probably tell Marduk is neo-nazi is look at their videos, and also Marduk mentioned something about the panzer division, i don't know if it's a group or not but, they said something about the panzer division

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 1:10 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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12. Netromancer writes:

Yeah, and Thomas Harris is a serial killer because he wrote "Silence of the Lambs". Slayer wrote "Dead Skin Mask" so I guess they are all murderers and necrophiliacs. But nobody worry because Toby McGuire played Spider-Man, so we can call him up and ask him to save the day.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 1:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
13. DOC OCTOPUS writes:

Not if I have anything to do with it.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 1:27 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
14. SPIDER-MAN writes:

But you won't good doctor, I'll see to that!

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 1:44 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
15. Zero 54 writes:

I agree with psythe. and then not only does it give metalheads a bad name, people blame the musicians aswell then they have to deal with this sh!t in the media, venues won't let them perform, and sponsors/labels won't want to touch any of the bands for fear of association to any of this sh!t.

Np God Forbid "Empire Of The Gun"

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 2:26 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
16. Kali writes:

Snake, I kinda think you should look into black metal alot more, man. You are wrong all the way.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 2:35 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
17. Kali writes:

O.k. Kali apparently needs to put her phone down, and be quiet. Talk about this in the am.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 2:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
18. TonyD writes:

We've all heard this in the black metal world before.....its not a shock...your gonna have extremest wherever you go....all religions including satanist have hipprocracys of some sort, but christianity seems to get the brunt of it every time.....

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 3:24 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

19. psythe writes:

Zero - EXACTLY.

also, post 13 was the funniest online come-back I've seen this year.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

20. wilco writes:

well i no faith my self everybody can do what ever they want on my part
but hey this people were having a good time nothing wrong with burning a church here and there
you dont need a church to worship somebody
and most the preachers are f***ed up in the head anyway
listening to
venom welcome to hell

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:45 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
21. skribb writes:

Wow wilco, you sure can't type for sh** (yeah I read your pofile as well).

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 8:09 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
americanpatriot1's avatar

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22. americanpatriot1 writes:

What a bunch of dumbasses.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 9:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Analguest's avatar

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23. Analguest writes:

why are you all b****ing about the metal reputation, that nobody will respect metalheads etc. things like that happened before and it made the music more popular than ever.
Metal is all about rebelion against everything that can piss you off,if your going to comlain about some kids burning a church in the name of their beliefs and linking them with nazi than maybe we should forbid metal bands to sing about satan,killing nuns,raping,burning and everything that metal represents.
You b****ing about metal not being popular and "the cause" i as a metalhead don't want it to be famous,popular and mainstream,this is for selected people not for everyone,if it was mainstrem you would look for other kinds of music so that you can rebel against the esteblishment.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 9:37 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ChassMasterPlus's avatar

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24. ChassMasterPlus writes:

agreed with anal boy, f*** mainstream, i dont want metal back on mtv. though these radical sect f***ers are all wacked in the head, and i agree organized religion (especially chritianity) is a load ofh horse sh**, but honestly, f*** what they do...im ganna keep listening to and wirting some violant metal to jump in a pit and get some a$$ whoopin done. f*** what everyones heard, if people here were true metal fans, we wouldnt give a f*** what these idiots are doing. were rebels with our own causes and devices, why should we take the flak for what they do? let them deal with it themselves, so they like emtal too, so what?

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 9:59 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ChassMasterPlus's avatar

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25. ChassMasterPlus writes:

p.s. i dont give 2 tugs of a dead dogs c*** what the public thinks of me and the music i like, were metal heads people! start throwing up the fists and middle fingers again! christ

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 10:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Leprosy101's avatar

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26. Leprosy101 writes:

I remember reading in a magazine and some satanic priest guy was saying that bands who go down burning churches are not satanic their just an a$$hole.

And anal guest im gonna have to disagree with you that metal is all about rebellion. Metal is all about being creative and coming up with technical music and have lyrics that mean something just listen to the Death album Symbolic and you will know what i mean

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 10:46 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ChassMasterPlus's avatar

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27. ChassMasterPlus writes:

metals about alot of things dude, im sure if u asked the founders of the genre, they wouldnt just say "is about being creative and technical", granted thats's a nice touch, the music was born for a more spiritual purpose, as is any genre of music. for me, metal is about letting go all my inhibitions, when i get to a show i let out all the rage ive had building since the last one, and gets me at one with myself....not to metnion its just fun to knock the living piss out of some other a$$ holes who r there for the same thing

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 11:10 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
28. TimW writes:

God forbid someone say the word "NAZI" like its going to kill you . And why is it ok for christians to sh** and piss on everyone elses beliefs but when someone takes a stand and is sick and tired of the christian hypocrisy, its all of a sudden a big f***ing deal?

Im so tired of people who dont stand for anything but there right to mouth off, but dont stand up for the people that actually get up off there a$$ and do something more then run there mouths.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 11:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Dying_Isis's avatar

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29. Dying_Isis writes:

at least burn a modern day building and not some beautiful piece of architecture. I think some black metal musician put it that way at least years ago. and to Snake!! who called Marduk a neo-nazi band..un no. way off base. just because they had an album called Panzer Division doesn't make them nazi's. now go play nice and listen to your metalcore albums

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 12:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

30. Diamond Oz writes:

"Metal is all about being creative and coming up with technical music"

Go and listen to Venom and then try and say that with a straight face haha! As has been said, metal is about alot of things, but never one single thing I think. Rebellion, inidividuality, technical skill, creativity and fun are all big parts of the genre but don't define it. Technical music, does not a metal band make, nor locked doors a barricade (sorry I heard a phrase like that yesterday and really wanted to use it. For shame Oz!)

As far as black metal fans desecrating churches, it's a stupid thing to do but they do it because they want to prove a point or spread their message. I'm aware this is only a select few black metal fans and most are ordinary decent people.

Now playing: Guns N Roses - Street Of Dreams (perhaps it's a bigger crime that I like this than these guys who f***ed with a church)

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 2:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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31. Netromancer writes:

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but how about just don't burn anything? Oh well, I'm sure they can make a bunch of new friends in prison. Nothing like a 10x10 cell to put your life into perspective. Enjoy.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 2:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
32. Kali writes:

I have decided that the only thing I am going to say is I find it funny how when a Satanist/our religon gets treated like sh** its o.k, but when a christian, or their church gets treated like sh** everyone gets all butt hurt.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 4:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

33. InfernoNecrosis writes:

A church is still somebody's property, whether it's a Satanic church, Christian church, or another such religious place. By burning such places specifically for being against them in ideas, one is against free speech. Restricted speech means it isn't free, and that's just not right no matter what you're restricting.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 4:14 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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34. Netromancer writes:

Yeah, and if a Christian commits an act of arson he can have the cell across the hall. I really don't have any sympathy for religious extremists of any calibre. Church-Burners, Abortion Clinic Bombers, Suicide Bombers, seriously, f*** 'em all.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 4:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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35. psythe writes:

Well said, both the last two posts.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 4:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
36. spiral_architect writes:

metal is a positive force in any true metalheads' life. i think the issue is actually that these loser kids are pyromaniacs, not that they are metalheads. as for the claim to nazism, they would be truer to the meaning of it if they used their creative energies to work toward a positive end instead of destroying things.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

37. Diamond Oz writes:

"as for the claim to nazism, they would be truer to the meaning of it if they used their creative energies to work toward a positive end instead of destroying things."

What about Kristallnacht?

Kali makes a good point on there. I think it's because the world still appears to view a Satanist as a murdering, sodomizing goat sacrificer rather than examining the beliefs. This news hasn't been on British telly as far as I know. I just came across out when I was looking for news on the pension of the old boss of the Royal Bank of Scotland (trust me, it's headline news here.) I haven't heard of much outcry from the public here since there's nowhere near as many Christian fanatics like there are in the The States.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:09 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
38. Kali writes:

Thank you, Diamond, Psythe, Netro, and Inferno.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

39. wilco writes:

well you know i can type for sh**
but in at least trying
when did you type for the last time dutch

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
40. Kali writes:

And like I said. I sit on the fence with church burnings. I have a real hard time not smiling when I see a church on fire, and its due to the fact that I get sick of christians persicuting my breathren.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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41. InfernoNecrosis writes:

I just saw post #13 and spit out my food from laughing so hard ahahahah

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 5:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

42. psythe writes:

^lol I know, right! that shenanigan was both cheeky and fun :)

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 6:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
43. Kali writes:

Ahahaha! I just now got post 13! I was a bit slow yesterday if you guys couldnt tell.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 6:42 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Txmetalhead's avatar

Member

44. Txmetalhead writes:

Post 13 and 14 are funny as hell. I also chuckled when I read Netromancer's post 12....so funny!!
Why don't we just call Tobey Mcguire up so he can save the day..LOL - hahaaaa
As for my stand(I think everyone knows I am Christian, by now) - I don't think it is right for this group to burn churches because there could be innocent people inside the church. On the other hand, they have a right to do what they want, but if they are breaking the law, they can also be punished. I think it is just a way for them to get noticed.. LIttle kids need to grow up eventually..lol.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 6:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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45. Netromancer writes:

Glad everyone got a chuckle :)

I think I was trying to say that subject matter and imagery are usually just that. Jeff Hanneman and Lemmy both collect Nazi memoribilia, but that doesn't make them Nazi's anymore than putting on a costume makes an actor a super-hero. Metal is rife with satanic or violent imagery, yet how is that different than making a movie or writing a book? Read Thomas Harris. The man's books are pretty sick, dealing with some of the most base and depraved issues you could think of, yet the guy's not a serial killer. People need outlets for this kind of stuff. Pretending it doesn't exist is putting a band-aid on a bullet wound.

And yeah, Kali, that last post was with you in mind. You are right and I wanted to show that I don't have a double standard when it comes to this stuff. I'm a firm believer in religious freedom as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others to practice it as well.

"An it harm none, do what thou wilt."

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 7:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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46. XWigglesX writes:

As somebone who loves history and also saw my state burn for almost 2 weeks this just pisses me off.
Arsonists deserve to have the book thrown at them.
There is no way you can justify burning down a building that is hundreds of years old. What right do they have to destroy a part of history? People complain constantly of people looking down their noses at metal fans but with stuff like this happening its not helping the cause at all. Maybe if some big players in the metal scene called out people like this the media would have a different perspective of the scene.
Don't get me wrong I'm not religious at all but no one has the right to destroy something that is that historic.

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 8:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
metalheaddrummer101's avatar

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47. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

eeww...religious debate...I've had a Satanic thing, but realized it's not my thing. It honestly isn't that bad of a religion. It' just that there's some crazies, but there are crazies in ANY religion...I think you should be more creative in putting your point across than saying, "hey, lets burn a church, that'll get us attention, and hey, any press is good press!"
it's like fvcking Gene Simmons but not as bad...'cause Gene is a fvcktard...(I'm gonna get FLAMED by KISS fans...:)

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 9:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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48. XWigglesX writes:

Nah man Gene is a douche. No doubt about it

# Feb 27, 2009 @ 9:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
49. lumpus5 writes:

anyone remember varg vikens from black metal band mayhem, he sounds like one of those guys he got busted for burning down churches and is still in prison for stabbing his bandmate to death, he has a bowl cut and a hitler moustache now in prison, hes a real crazy bastard.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 1:33 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ATTILATHEHEN's avatar

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50. ATTILATHEHEN writes:

These punks are all mixed up;they connect ancient Celtic pagan culture w/Hitler,Neo-Nazism,Metal Music,&Hannibal Lector?I will eat them w/some falafel beans & a glass of Chianti,yum.Former Missouri Senator&DHS head John Ashcroft collects Nazi memorabilia too;at one time I collected pornographic comic books,so what else is new?Being Irish& proud of my ancient pagan Celtic heritage,I know that St.Patrick didn't even like Irish people;he called them barbarians.Am reminded of an old Dead Kennedys phrase-"If you really love Jesus,then go burn a church"-now playing:Jesus Christ Pose by Soundgarden

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 1:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
51. Kali writes:

WOW! Long time no post Attila! Nice to see you!

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 4:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

52. wilco writes:

well post 50

is right people take there sh** to serious its just music or a cult you know
burn your own house down if you feel you need something to burn down
well about collecting i used to collect nazi stuff as well do still have at home at my momsplace
but does that make me a nazi?
so please keep your sh** to your self and dont bother other people with

slayer cult

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 5:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

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53. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Ah, great story! Another church down and a million more to go. Thumbs up to those guys except that the dumb people who do not understand "Black Metal" will misconstrue it. The Christians do not and will not ever understand why alot of us Black Metal fans are angry. For me, it really does have to do with the past: persecutions of Pagans, the prosecution of women (witch hunts/trials) and this does still continue in modern times only on a more silent and guilded form. Much to talk about here and a huge debate indeed but honestly, if those young adults truely believe in the cause to take a stab a Christianity, then so be it. There just has to be a smarter way~ more legal at least!!

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 6:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

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54. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

To comment #50: that's nothing new with the connections of ancient Celtic Paganism, cult movies, metal music and Nazism~ how did Hitler come up with the Swastika? His love for music, yes, his interest in the Occult, yes, not sure about any German cult movies at the time, but Hitler was digging up some real good stuff to persue his "dreams", ahahahahahhaa! He wasn't dumb, that's for sure.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 6:42 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jackrum's avatar

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55. Jackrum writes:

ah of course, hitler nazi's metal and paganism. f**king french tossers. seriously that country should not exist, i hate the french.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 7:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
metalheaddrummer101's avatar

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56. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

meh. I just don't like anyone who isn't creative enough to put their message across in a different way than slapping someone in the face...I do admit that hitler wasn't dumb, he was just an a$$hole. Nazi's..bleh...And Naziism in black metal is NOTHING new...Heard about NSBM anyone?
and varg was in Burzum. He quit Mayhem pretty early on.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Analguest's avatar

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57. Analguest writes:

Varg was never a fulltime member of mayhem, he was a session musician.

"cause" why do people use this term?? i mean what is our as metalheads"cause" and why burning churches doesn't help it??

if metal was about technicality thn we would never have the black metal scene and maybe even no death metal because in it's origins it was all so primitive (some bands still are).
I don't belive bands like mayhem burzum immortal or emperor were started from other reasons than hate to death metal and christianity.
Or bands like morbid angel cannibal corpse deicide or possessed wanted to be more technical than metallica or slayer and that's why they started playing death metal.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:59 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
58. ZT* writes:

Fags...

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 1:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
metalheaddrummer101's avatar

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59. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

Yeah, I know that(Analguest).
yeah, I agree that the majority of metal is to have fun and play what you want to listen to.
Except for BM.
No Mosh, No Core, No Fun!
(that's that motto thing...not what I think...moshing is awesome!)

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 1:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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60. wilco writes:

death metal rules
jackrum

guess i am not the only one than who hate the french
well indeed hitler was not dumb but he went a little akward on the end
and indeed he believed in the occult thing

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 3:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
metalheaddrummer101's avatar

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61. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

I know it does! \m/

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 3:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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62. DeathInEye writes:

Metal may not have begun as a technical persuit but it certainly became a vital aspect for certain bands. Meshuggah, Necrophagist, BTBAM, Behold...The Arctopus, Dimmu Borgir, Lamb of God, Gojira, Tool, Opeth and dozens more all value technicality and innovation. Without these you would get even more recycled garbage. No it's not the only creative element, but it is key.

As far as the church burners, being an atheist, I have a hard time respecting people who commit physically harmful acts in the name of a fictional character, as intriguing as that character may be.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 7:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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63. XWigglesX writes:

Pffft the French.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 9:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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64. XWigglesX writes:

The Swastika came from ancient Hindu mythology, signifying good luck and well being.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

65. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Who DOESN'T hate the French? XD

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Kalis_wrath's avatar

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66. Kalis_wrath writes:

Uh... Wiggles, I believe it was the Native American's who use the swastica, not the Hindu's.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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67. Netromancer writes:

Actually I think, he's right. The word itself is sanskrit. The symbol was originally meant to denote good luck or fortune. Many other cultures have similar symbols, but the swastika itself is used by Dharmic religions.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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68. DeathInEye writes:

Swastikas have appeared in mainly places of Europe/Asia (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Ancient Greece, Grecco-Roman, and Gothic architecture) but I've never heard about it in relation to Native Americans. I'm curious though, Kali. It's always fascinating when symbols/ideas pop up in multiple, separate cultures.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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69. InfernoNecrosis writes:

The swastika has been used by many groups of varying religions. The most known use was during the Holocaust, and prior to that, by the Greek churches. However, it had been used extensively long before the existence of the Greek church. I THINK I recall the Hindu's being one of the groups that used it in the past, but due to the modern ignorance of the various meanings of the symbol, it hasn't been used by Hindu groups as much as before.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:20 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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70. InfernoNecrosis writes:

lol @ us all giving a lesson on the history of the swastika.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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71. Netromancer writes:

The greeks called it the gammadion, I believe :)

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
metalheaddrummer101's avatar

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72. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

I don't mind the french...I have a few friends who are. And there is this great MMO called Dofus that's french.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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73. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Wiggles, MHD said he doesn't mind the French! KILL HIM!

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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74. Netromancer writes:

I'm actually watching a WWII documentary right now. "The War" by Ken Burns. Very long, 6 part show. As a kid I really loved Captain America, The Invaders and many other characters based in the 40's. That interest made me want to understand the time period better, and therefore the second World War.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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75. DeathInEye writes:

Lol, Wikipedia has: "At the start of the Renaissance, swastika ornaments disappeared from utensils but swastika continued being used by Slavs. It became a popular ornament on Easter eggs"

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:36 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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76. Kalis_wrath writes:

I know for a fact I have seen Native American's use the swastica in their religion. Even seen it in their art. Did not know the Hindu used it, too. You learn something new everyday.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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77. Kalis_wrath writes:

I have lived in the NW nearly my entire life by the way. Native Americans are concentrated in this area.

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:42 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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78. InfernoNecrosis writes:

LOL @ Death... that's awesome.

My buddy Jim and his friend once made a swastika out of desks and called it the deskstika. The teacher was pretty infuriated from what I heard (he took pictures, so I saw it).

# Feb 28, 2009 @ 10:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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79. XWigglesX writes:

What have the French ever done for me? Nothing. Stuff them. Go surrender to someone else you pansies.
Kalis I've never heard of Native Americans using it, but I don't doubt it. Its a very common symbol.
Its kind of sad that something so old and historical is now taboo in the West.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 12:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

80. Diamond Oz writes:

It's a symbol that's been used by loads of cultures, there's even a letter in the Hebrew alphabet that looks similar to a swastika. In some Hindu ceremonies they make a big swastika out of lanterns I think. Greeks, Chinese, Celtic, name a civilization and they've probably used it. The symbol is still used on alot of Finnish medals.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 3:07 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
81. TimW writes:

Funny how i get my balls broken for hating dirty f***ing jews, but its ok to hate the French....go figure....i hate the frogs too, im just saying......

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 3:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

82. Diamond Oz writes:

Logical reason why you hate Jewish people. Go.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 3:58 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Kalis_wrath's avatar

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83. Kalis_wrath writes:

Diamond, the Jews have big noses! Damn those Jews! Hahaha!

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 4:09 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

84. Diamond Oz writes:

TimW is Mel Gibson perhaps?

Now playing: Judas Priest - Visions

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 4:14 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

85. psythe writes:

Jewgo ate my baby.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 4:58 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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86. wilco writes:

yeah thats new to me as well about the native americans
did not know that

but while we at the native subject dont get me wrong now im not a racist
so what is this thing when dark poeple say no i am not american i am african american
well to me it sounds when you are born in the usa that makes you a american
because 1/2 of them never left the usa or there county/state

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:20 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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87. XWigglesX writes:

TimW you've got to understand that "hating" French people is different to calling Jews "Dirty f***ing Jews"
We are making French jokes because the English and French are natural enemies. Much like America and Canada or Australia and New Zealand. It isn't hateful and full of malice like your views on Jews.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:24 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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88. XWigglesX writes:

I agree with you Wilco, if you're born in America you are American.
You don't call people of Austrian heritage Austrian-American do you?
As far as I'm concerned if you're born in the country then you are a member of the country.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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89. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Glad I started something that makes people use their brains....

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:40 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Kalis_wrath's avatar

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90. Kalis_wrath writes:

And I am glad to see posts from you on here BMG! Glad to have a seasoned metal woman on here!

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:43 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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91. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

You are still up woman! Oh wait, it's saturday night, hahahahha!

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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92. Kalis_wrath writes:

*LMAO* Yep. Even just finnished up making apple strussel muffins for Mondays breakfast. Enjoying putting my own black/ metal gig together, too!

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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93. Kalis_wrath writes:

black/death*

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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94. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

I have a friend who's Jewish...You wouldn't believe how many 'parting the red sea' jokes I've made...
The French are pansies who loose all the wars, anyway...and are socialist...but I don't really mind that. I'm pretty socialist myself.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 9:41 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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95. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

way to typo, Kali :)

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 10:55 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
96. TonyD writes:

To stereotype the entire christian faith is stupid......your gonna have far right christians i get it, but theres alot of christian people that dont judge, that dont get butt hurt that dont, you know, cause a bunch of petty crap and protests
I dont dump on no ones faith but to say all christians are one way or the same, is an uneducated BS statement

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 11:59 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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97. IrishMetal writes:

One good (or possibly bad if you want them to die out) thing about the French is they know their population is declining and are essentially paying people to get pregnant - long maternity and paternity leave, bonuses, cheap housing, free healthcare and all that jazz.

On topic... I can see their reasoning for what the church burners do, and if you believe in an eye for an eye after such a long time then in a way they would be right.
But I am no supporter of this, I dislike churches and stuff, but they don't harm me so I leave them be.

In the past sure enough there were huge abuses by the Church - all branches and creeds really - and they went unpunished because of the influence and power the church had back then. As blackmetalgoddess said about the treatment of women back in the day, along with other issues. If they happened in this day and age then I you can bet there would be a huge outcry, due to the loss of influence that the church has in many issues (which makes me happy).
If they would leave medicine alone to progress now I would not care one bit what people do in their spare time, apart from having the odd fun debate with my few religious friends.

But fact is most people just figure that was in the past, lets leave it all alone now - a view that is very popular as it avoids responsibility for everything, so these new acts of violence, while not as bad as the churches original offenses, are actually seen as far more shocking. There are people who hold grudges, and incidents like this happen. If there are hotheads on both sides then feuds will not die down.

Supposedly they are trying to get revenge for the destruction of old pagan churches, but this to me is just stupid, who's to say what version of religion is best. I'm more of the opinion that they just felt like goin out and burnin a church for the lulz because their reasons are obsolete.

Any act of violence commited in the name of any religion to me is absolutely abhorrent. Its such a stupid reason - find something more substantial to fight over, theres more than enough things - land, resources, women heheh.

So basically I'm with Netro's opinion on Post 34 on this issue. Screw them all.

Sorry for the length of the post guys and gals.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 12:46 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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98. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

Irish-for the lulz? what, they were part of Anonymous?

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 1:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
99. TimW writes:

French suck and Jews suck....period. And yes im sick and tired of that "african american" bullsh**....if they really want to embrace there culture, GO BACK TO AFRICA! Enjoy starving, aids, bugs, disease, starving again, and dying from stupidity.....oh and you will die cause you lazy f***ers wont have welfare or any support system that the good ole USA gives you cretans. ENJOY AND CHEERS TO GOING BACK TO THE ZOO!

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 2:38 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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100. IrishMetal writes:

Post 98 - yes their own version of it of it.

Post 99 - I have an essay to write now or we would possibly start another argument. Interestingly enough it's about AIDS in Africa and all the economic problems they have because of it. So don't get me started, or a sh!t load of facts will be spewed all over you. One thought though - US welfare/healthcare is nowhere near the best. Although it is too good for the lazy people who do nothing - of all races.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 3:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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101. DeathInEye writes:

We do you actually acknowledge other cultures Wiggles. We say Irish-American, German-American, Italian-American, Chinese-American, Japanese-American. Not necessarily in general conversation, but more when specific terms need to be used. African-American is vague in itself though. It typically refers to black Americans when in reality color has nothing to do with being of African decent. Also I think these terms were meant only for 1st and 2nd generation immigrants, maybe 3rd. Eventually you get so much mingling that your heritage is but a novelty.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 4:08 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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102. XWigglesX writes:

Ah right. Yeah it doesn't happen here. Everyone is just "Australian".
Won't even bother touching that TimW.
You're nothing but a hate filled racist.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 4:13 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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103. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Tim, you're a f***ing moron.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 4:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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104. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

meh...Racists...I'm sorry, but saying you hate someone without any argument is one of the first signs of bigotry.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:15 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

105. Diamond Oz writes:

Yeah we do the heritage thing in the UK too but to a lesser extent. All my family comes from Ireland and I'm alot more proud of that heritage than the history and attitude of England, so I often refer to myself as an Irish-Englishman or often just Irish. I support Irish teams and wear Irish football shirts and I was happy to see Ireland beat England in rugby yesterday. So it's not just African-Americans that do that. Plus there's nothing wrong with celebrating your heritage so I can't see why there's any harm in the self-description.

I ain't even gonna waste my time with the racist bullsh**.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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106. Kalis_wrath writes:

Tim, you are truly uneducated arent you? First off if you knew anything about AIDS, you would know that scientific data has proven it comes from monkeys, so you may as well hate them. Secondly, WOW! Being proud of someones heritage is wrong and shameful? I bet you really hate your self!

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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107. InfernoNecrosis writes:

I'm a bit tired so my sentences might look a bit jumbled up, but here goes...

Heh Kali, I am not exactly thinking that Death meant such harsh words. I think what he meant is that people are so very mixed today in terms of race that there's no point to go so far back and be proud of something that their family has long-forgotten about comparatively over other races.

I don't know if what I said made sense :P

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 5:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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108. Kalis_wrath writes:

Uh... no, you make no scence. I was not talking to Death, I was talking to TimW.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:00 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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109. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Oh because part of your post looked like it could've been a response to Death's post. My bad! :)

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
xFiruath's avatar

Content Manager

110. xFiruath writes:

I don't hate the French. Hating someone because of where they were born is rather silly, since they had no say in the matter. Even if you disagree with the country's politics or military engagements you still can't say you hate their people, because they have nothing to do with either of those things. I didn't authorize Congress to invade Iraq, so I sure hope no one would hate me because my country decided to go start sh** in the Middle East. At most you could say you hated their government, but certainly not the people themselves.

Anyways, France has given the world some pretty awesome stuff. Besides the fact that they make over 400 different kinds of cheese, each more delicious than the last, they also gave us Deathspell Omega, which immediately ups their ranking. Their health care system also blows ours out of the water. I've also heard people on here complain about France not understanding black metal because black metal is all about preserving their heritage.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
xFiruath's avatar

Content Manager

111. xFiruath writes:

^ woops, part of my sentence got cut off. Supposed to say :

I've also heard people on here complain about France not understanding black metal because black metal is all about preserving their heritage. France actually has an organization that limits the usage of non-French words in their language in an effort to preserve the purity of their culture, so to say that they don't understand heritage is a bit off base.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:14 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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112. IrishMetal writes:

Kali @ Post 106 - he knows that AIDS come from monkeys, and its what he's implying that is so incredibly racist, never mind his attitude towards Jews.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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113. wilco writes:

well thats make me german dutch
well the point is ity does not matter were you are from were you are born thats your country
no strange thing about that
and yes i dont like the french
i do have right to say that i work in the tourist buisniss were we do get lots of french they are argogant and refuse to speak english
well at least one good band came from france H-BOMB

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 6:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
114. spiral_architect writes:

hate the french? i can't imagine life without french fries!

the swastika is indeed an ancient symbol of luck, it has been found on ancient pottery in mesopotamia (modern day iraq), europe (including to this day on the floor and archway designs of catholic churches), asian hinduism and buddhism (as a religious symbol), and north american indian. supposedly the direction of the swastika arms (arching left or arching right) mean different things. after world war II, some hindus and buddhists started using a left-arching symbol to differentiate themselves from the nazi german right-arching symbol.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 7:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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115. DeathInEye writes:

Nobody's mentioned Gojira! Sure they're relatively new, but a great band.

And yeah, I didn't mean anything negative by saying heritage is a novelty. I simply meant it can be incredibly difficult to embrace your heritage when, 4 generations down, you're so removed from the original cultures. It can be especially hard for new-world countries because most people who went to these places were escaping something they disliked about their original culture, so therefore those ways, traditions and ideas were discarded.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 7:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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116. Fuck_A_Name writes:

I make hateful jokes about the french for the same reason i make hateful jokes about n*****s, spics, jew-bagels, fags, dotheads, etc, etc.....because it's funny. If you actually believe that sh**, youre an idiot.

Lets say black people are monkeys or at least close to them evolutionary wise. If anything, they're at least close to the progenitors of the human race, since religious scholars have already pointed out that the garden of eden mentioned in the bible is, according to maps and tracing back through the book, in or around ethiopia. Geneticists have also identified that portion of the world as the cradle of life. So block-headed religion bible-thumpers and pompous over-analyzing logic-twats agree on something, despite their approach to EVERYTHING being polar opposites. yet they come to the exact same conclusion. There's gotta be somethin to that, no matter which end of the fence you're on, creationism/evolution wise.

So that means, Timw, you, are part African-american. :D

Now Playing: Gojira- wolf Down the Earth (dirty pastry-eating french fa**ots)

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 8:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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117. XWigglesX writes:

Like you FAN, I make jokes about the French in the same light as the jokes I make about Americans. I by no means believe anything I say, I just find French jokes funny.
But like Wilco I deal with tourists a lot and French people (and old people) are generally the rudest while English and New Zealanders are the nicest. Just my observation.

# Mar 1, 2009 @ 10:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
metalheaddrummer101's avatar

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118. metalheaddrummer101 writes:

Fvck, I even make jokes about americans!

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 12:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Fuck_A_Name's avatar

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119. Fuck_A_Name writes:

"Fvck, I even make jokes about americans!"

hey! It's not nice to pick on retards!

Seriously, all the french people I've met are a$$holes. Gojira IS the sh** though. surprised me too. I went to a concert with Lamb of God and Machine head, and gojira was opening up, and all I knew was that they were french, so I was ready to throw beer at them and everything. then their drummer started playing. Jesus c***sucking christ they were the sh**.

A broken clock is right two times a day right? Once in a while, the crap-suck cesspool that is france can pump something good out then, eh?

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 1:37 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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120. wilco writes:

there you go xwiggelsx
at least somebody who understands the tourist stuff i work as a diveinstructor on bonaire
we do got lots of french and russians overhere they are rude
you can compare them to the black plaque
they damage everything well at least the reefs and sho ut all day
do like the americans

sounds strange if the swastika should bring luck than hitler did not get so lucky on the end

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 5:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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121. XWigglesX writes:

Man it'd be f***ing freezing in the water up there?

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 5:09 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Die4Dethklok's avatar

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122. Die4Dethklok writes:

HITLER WAS A f***ING THOOL!!! Not a satanist!! f***. I appreciate that these guys are trying to do a good thing, but... Brainless idiots will be. BTW, there is a funny contradiction in that article. The correct term for demolishing a building is 'RAZE'. haha...

Anyway, A lot of Black Metal is satanic, and anti-christian... but not all, and they definitely arent all neos. Take Endstille, they are very misanthropic, but they are incredibly anti-nazi. On the other hand, Nifelheim (whos album cover i display in my DP) are very Satanic, but they make it funny.

Another thing i have noticed, is the lack of anti muslim or jew bands (discounting the try hard neos), when ever someone tries to be, they are being discriminatory, and the pricks cry racism. Stupid c***s. Look at what they are doing now...
And, what is meant by 'satanic symbols'? a lot of what is called satanic now is only done so because of the christian / catholic corruption, the Pentagram is protection from evil, whichever way it is displayed.
And, if anyone looked into the history of Hitlers symbology, they would find that everything he used was originally good, wellmeaning symbols. THE SWASTIKA REPRESENTS LIFE AND PROSPERITY!!!
But... These guys should make up their minds. Are they Nazis, Pagans or Satanists? One cant be all, except in the eyes of a retarded christian, or misinformed sheeple.

A good deed, done by confused people... sigh...

NP - Primal Concrete Sledge - by Pantera

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:35 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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123. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Hitler was a Christian. I thought everyone knew that.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:52 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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124. wilco writes:

xwiggelsx
no dude its in the tropics
i moved out of holland due to the weather to cold in europe
the water overhere is about allyear round 27 cel

think the probelem with music
some people can not separate music and real life
the dudes who play death metal doing it just for fun
there is no real mesage in death metal
unless you can find a way to play a cd backwards

horns up

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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125. XWigglesX writes:

Ah really? Are you near my country?

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 1:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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126. wilco writes:

no i am in the careabean
in between aruba and venazuela

listening to savatage 24hours ago

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 2:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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127. XWigglesX writes:

Sounds like a good job Wilco.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 3:13 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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128. XWigglesX writes:

Sounds like a good job Wilco.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 3:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
129. spiral_architect writes:

hitler was catholic! yes, many of the high ranking party members were interested in the occult and were thule members, but hitler basically rejected all that as nonsense.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 3:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
LordAssenfroth's avatar

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130. LordAssenfroth writes:

i think this whole situation would have been cool if they just spray painted on the churches or egged the churches or wrote like jesus sucks dong or whatever but destroying a building i think is taking it to far.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 4:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Netromancer's avatar

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131. Netromancer writes:

I guess my take on this is believe whatever you want to believe, but a criminal act remains a criminal act depite religious motivation. And anyone who decides they need to go to that extreme can experience the judicial system firsthand. Enjoy that cell, you'll get the chance to become intensely familiar with it, and it really doesn't care what you believe.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 5:09 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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132. psythe writes:

Instead of burning a church, here's what I would have done: Set up a donation account for Satanists everywhere to add to my funds. Then used those funds to buy a church and revamp it into a Satanic church.

Actually, f*** that, I reckon an old, ex-church would make for a RAD house-party/rave location! blacklight the sh** out of it, green ghost lights, strobes, fluoro paint and markers, stripper poles... WOOOOO snorting coke off the altar!! :D

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 5:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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133. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Psythe, looks like you just made the plans for a future Metal Underground headquarters! hahaha

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

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134. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Comment #122 has a point about anti-Muslim messages. If the UN has it's way, there could be a universal law that even Americans would have to abide and that's if anyone makes negative public comments about Islamic religion, they will be criminalized. Ah, so, again, why is everyone so uptight about Nazis? They are not the threat. The crazy Islamic fools that claim their religion is "the way" are the nutjobs that should be stuffed in the ovens! We need counter groups to keep back rules like this. This whole Global Village thing isn't going to work out at all.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:14 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

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135. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Blackmetalgoddess, I heard about this law from a friend and he gave me a print of the document.. it is absolutely retarded.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:18 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

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136. wilco writes:

well is it free speech for the dumb

yeah its not a bad job at all

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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137. DeathInEye writes:

I assume this law is intended to keep stereotyping prejudiced remarks from being blurted out on FOX News, not debating the relevance of the religion.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

138. Diamond Oz writes:

What law is this?

By the way, no-one deserves to be shoved into an oven, no matter how extreme they are. I was actually told about an anti-Islamic black metal band but my friend telling me about it couldn't remember their name. I'll have a dig around for it if anyone's interested?

The other thing about Islam is that you do have to be careful what you say about it and how you view them. Yes Muslim extremists are ignorant f***heads but not Muslims are. If Islam was all about hatred and the like, it wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world. There's alot of Islam that's very peaceful but in these times it's very easy to forget that. Also, if you hate en entire religion including the followers that have done nothing wrong, then those innocent followers are more likely to be extremists through the prejudice they've faced. That includes Satanists.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 7:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Dark_Funeral's avatar

Member

139. Dark_Funeral writes:

blackmetal will always be my favorite metal genre.

if i had MY WAY, we wouldnt have 100,000 troops in iraq, those 100,000 troops would be taking control of the OPEC oil fields and allowing the US to regulate oil prices around the world and climb out of this damn recession and work from there.

Flame me all you want, but if you live in the US, you should know what i'm talking about. In fact, you know, the US doesnt even need to buy oil from the ragheads. We have [i think] double their oil digging equipment up in alaska, its the environmentalist bastards that wont let us provide our own supply of oil.

Don't get me wrong, i think the environment is important, but its honestly the lesser of two evils. Carbon emissions, or oil digging that causes no relative harm but a bit of habitat destruction?

The countries of this planet need to start inventing things that can help humankind, rather then the next ipod or the worlds smallest computer. I dont want things to be too terribly easy for me if it means i wont be able to enjoy flying cars and sh** when i'm 80 and the earth is drifting into the sun.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:34 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

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140. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

So, those that believe in going into a crowded shopping plaza and blowing themselves up to meet 1,000 virgins, doesn't deserve to be shoved into an oven? I say, yes they do, in order to keep innocent people from dieing, the Muslim extremists so not deserve any life given to them. The only good they do is killing themselves. I know of an Anti-Islamic band but I will refrain from giving their name here. Any one should have that right to speak their mind of Anti-Muslim thought. It's absurd TO PROTECT THE WEAK MINDED and SHELTER those that are SENSITIVE. I would die rather than give in to such bullsh*t in controlling my thoughts as to my perspective on religion!!!!!!!!!

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

141. InfernoNecrosis writes:

"Ragheads"? DF I like you and all because we get along, but hon you have to remember I'm an Iraqi Lol.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

142. DeathInEye writes:

There are fuel efficient cars, the Gov. just didn't invest or support them the last 8 years. This stimulus package has a lot of incentives for those who work in the energy efficiency market, but it needs time to grow.

And Diamond, I hope that post was directed at BMG? I didn't mean anything negative by my comment.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

Member

143. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Satanists are a by-product of Christianity. I do not call myself such a title. People that follow religion are weak. The human race does not need it. It is a form of social control. Passing laws that tell me that I can not think a certain way of a particular type of religion is just elitist and FASCIST. Great, Islam is THIS WAY, the correct way, know it or suffer the consequences? F*ck you. Holding people responsible in how they think is ludicrous. If this is the case, we need to hold every single human being responsible for ALL RELIGIONS in viewing them in their correct form. That's not going to happen. What makes Islamic religion so special? Fastest growing? Who gives a sh*t, that is just putting more pressure on the cranky Christians in how they like to cram thier silly ideologies down our throats. It's mud slinging and by far, the poor Pagans are caught in the fall out. I will not drink the Kool-Aid my friend and insensitivities/criticism to religion are here to stay.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BoltThrower's avatar

Supporter

144. BoltThrower writes:

I think I'm late to the party. But...

If you willfully destroy someone's property, you should pay restitution. If you can't afford to pay restitution, you should work in a prison until the fruits of your prison labor are sufficient to pay the restitution. And only then should you go free. It doesn't matter what your motivation was. Calling something a "hate" crime is really unnecessary. Crime is crime no matter the motivation.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 8:58 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

145. InfernoNecrosis writes:

Blackmetalgoddess, I think you might like www.ethicalatheist.com. :) I love that site.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 9:02 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

146. DeathInEye writes:

Look, I'm an atheist and think religion is just Dr. Seuss for grown-ups (although if the bible, torah, quran read like Dr. Seuss, I might entertain it more) but cramming nonexistence down people's throats is just as bad as having god crammed down yours. Some people need that imaginary friend to get through the day. I've always felt my atheism made me respect life more but apparently it hasn't had the same effect on you. Islamic extremists are fools, yes. No, I do not respect their actions, but I do acknowledge their right to live.

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 10:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BoltThrower's avatar

Supporter

147. BoltThrower writes:

Me and God are at a standoff. I'm not quite sure who's going to win. Well, actually, I don't see how I can ever hope to win against the Almighty but before I'm cast into the Lake Of Fire I sincerely hope he answers a few questions I have. These will be real questions, not those lame things the disciples asked like who gets to sit down at his right hand or which of the seven brothers that f'ucked a woman will get to f'uck her in the afterlife. Read it. It's really in there.

I'm going to ask:

"Why don't you take better care of your creation?"

"Why don't you show up more often? We only live 90 years and you show up every few thousand years, and then you act surprised when we forget about you?"

"If you don't like what our urges drive us toward, why did you make the urges so strong?"

"Why weren't the writers of your Word more enlightened than the average person on the street at the time? The record has them performing miracles, but none of them ever displayed any more knowledge than their peers."

"Why are there other gospels in existence that aren't in the Cannon? Surreptitious? How are we to know? Are we really supposed to trust that the weirdos of the Council of Nicea picked all the correct ones and discarded all of the fake ones?"

"Why are most of us going to Hell when we haven't done anything other than what you created us to do?"

"F'uck it! Why do I need to ask these questions?!"

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 11:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
ATTILATHEHEN's avatar

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148. ATTILATHEHEN writes:

At last there's a lady on this site(besides yours truly)removing the'mask' off the"peaceful"Muslin'religion'-thank you,BMG,for trying to wake the doofus males out of their slumber.Mainstream Mono-Religions are basically Patriarchal,so us girls have to enlighten the males in our lives;remember the illiterate Saudi woman accused of Witchcraft,her sentence was death by Beheading(History repeats itself,unfortunately);I signed a petition on her behalf-This kind of crap could happen in this country(the good old USA)if we become apathetic&don't stand up for the right to believe-or not believe-in anything we desire,as long as we're not hurting children or animals.The UN Resolution is the camel jockey's nose in the tent;If we let them get away with this,next thing there will be anti-Blasphemy laws on the books,like in Saudi Arabia,Iran,Pakistan,Afghanistan,ad nauseum. Now playing: Religious Vomit by the Dead Kennedys

# Mar 2, 2009 @ 11:52 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
149. Bruno Hockalugie writes:

Lemmy is God. That is all.

Now playing Motorhead- Overkill

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 1:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

Member

150. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Repeat comment #148 and repeat. This is what scares me. I work with a girl from Pakistan and her stories of the way men treat women are chilling. I spoke up and basically told her that if ever in my time that THIS COUNTRY merely starts to smell like the laws that are taken so seriously in Islamic countries, I WILL FIGHT TILL I DIE defending my freedom. I would take my own life before some dumb motherf**ker tells me that I can not learn to read or drive or that I even have to walk behind them because of what a fairytale book says? LMAO! I'm actually positive that it may not happen anytime soon but unfortunately the evolution of human emotion seems to be headed that way especially since this world is becoming smaller and smaller.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 2:52 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
151. LR writes:

I'm a Muslim woman from a 100 percent Islamic country... I Do what ever i want, no "dumb motherf***er" tells me what to do... Even if anyone, Muslim or not tries to do that, they will regret it!! Its such a shame that people thinks like that... No one i know follows the rules everyone talks about but we are still Muslims... You should know, we do live a quite normal life like you guys.... Its different in each and every country....

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 5:08 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
152. Metallizer writes:

"...the words in their songs glorified Hitler as the new anti-Christ and invoked scenes from The Silence Of The Lambs."

How utterly original... Sounds more like a group of angsty teensters.

http://metallizer.blogsome.com

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:07 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

153. InfernoNecrosis writes:

What country are you from, LR?

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 8:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
americanpatriot1's avatar

Member

154. americanpatriot1 writes:

I'll be in my original shop this week, so it's game on folks.

Dark Funeral: "We have [i think] double their oil digging equipment up in alaska, its the environmentalist bastards that wont let us provide our own supply of oil."

That, and the Democrat controlled Congress that blocks most efforts to drill in this country. They have placed so many tax levies and political red tape to drill, that it is not profitable to drill here.
Congress is also blocking efforts to fund research on alternative fuels. All they preach is ethanol based fuel. Ethanol based fuel comes from corn. We dig into this more and find that it costs more to produce this fuel, and the carbon output is virtually the same. Let's not forget what's going to happen to the price of corn if we delve into this. See how much food is corn based, or with corn products, and you will see just how bad it can get.

DeathInEye: The blocking of fuel efficiency goes further than the last 8 years.

BMG and DIE, please don't lump all Christians in with the ignorant and close-minded. Not all of us are judegemental and condescending. Doing that makes you just as bad as the ones you rant about. Am I a Christian? Yes I am. Do I sin? Oh you betcha. That doesn't makes us hypocrites.

Another thing, the UN is the most pretentious bunch of anti-American posers ever shoved in one room. We are in a no-win situation being involved with them.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:22 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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155. DeathInEye writes:

Post 150: "I would take my own life before some dumb motherf**ker tells me that I can not learn to read or drive or that I even have to walk behind them because of what a fairytale book says?"

^Suicide bomber mindset to a T! Except they step it up and take innocent people with them.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:27 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
156. Satan's Son writes:

Drop the nazism and just burn down the churches!!! Hail Satan!!!!

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

Member

157. Red writes:

Just so everybody knows, I use to do like my friend american patriot and try to reason with the idiots that b**** and insult Christians on this site. I've changed my mind and I will not try to reason with the stupid dumbsh**s that are ignorant. So my new line of thinking is : you don't like it ? f*** you a$$holes !!!

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:40 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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158. Blindgreed1 writes:

I've noticed that most of the Christians on this site are not the type oof Christians I enjoy insulting. I will even go as far as to say that I like most of the Christians on this site and respect thier opinions.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 10:36 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
159. no one writes:

way late to this thread, but....
I've seen/read a lot of stories like this, the black metal vs. christianity thing, and always had one question. Those in favor ousting christianity where it overtook the pagan/celtic/what-have-you beliefs of past often claim they worship satan or do things in the name of satan to accomplish their goals. The question is this: isn't satan a christian belief, and shouldn't they be railing against satan as well? Shouldn't they be doing things in the name of which ever beliefs they have or which ever god/gods they believe in?
I've always wondered this, and this seemed to be the most appropriate place to ask that.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 10:51 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
americanpatriot1's avatar

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160. americanpatriot1 writes:

Red, it does get tiresome sometimes, but I feel if we say nothing, the ones who hate us are kinda winning. I just can't let it go that easily.

BLIIIIIIIIIIND!!!!!!!! What's up brother?

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 11:13 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

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161. Blindgreed1 writes:

AP1: Glad to have you back in the fold brother. BTW, the snow story about your son was classic!

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 11:26 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
americanpatriot1's avatar

Member

162. americanpatriot1 writes:

Yeah, he's a hoot. We went to the BX the other day, and as we were pulling up, he looked and said, "Oh look, I get a Spider-Man". We were laughing so hard, I had a hard time parking the car. I'm telling you, that boy is silly.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 11:41 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jenny's avatar

Member

163. Jenny writes:

no one on post 159. Your thoughts are correct; however people already do that, it just so happens that not everyone does. In terms of Satan, to some he's just a symbol for those who follow thier own thing and their own beliefs. At least I think that's how it goes or whatever.

Btw posts 30, 110 and 111 make great points.

I'm pretty late too, but on topic, this whole church burning thing is just pointless. Back in the day the only way BM music got any attention of the mainstream what-so-ever was through negative attention from the media on crimes and church burnings. The point is that when talked about above ground, BM wasn't seen for the music, but the stuff surrounding it. That bothers me cuz as said by others before, it just makes BM fans look bad; more importantly, it takes away from the importance of the music.

If anything, BM and its ideals belong to the people inside. It stands for everything on its own as a form of art. Allow me to elaborate a bit: NOT ALL DO, but in terms of making a point, if 'Satanists' are so sick of Christians making a big deal out of stuff then 'Satanists' are no better to make a scene either.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 2:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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164. XWigglesX writes:

Jenny knows what's up!

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 4:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

165. wilco writes:

well di not check in for a while
but i am amazed that you guys and sorry jenny are still on this topic
its on the end all about freedom of speach is it only freedom right now its not so much anymore
so if you got a faith or you are a agnostic or none believer you should keeo it to your self
dcont blame other ones by burning churches
and for the hipocrytes around us here on this site well you guys shout stupid things but next sunday you are back in church
see i am not a moslim or christian or what so ever so i can say any thing i want
but most of your poeple are church people who go everyweek to church and give money to the church so the dude can buy a new doghouse or f*** a young boy in the ass
about the un f*** you all with out them the world would be in lots more sh** look what you guys did
and dont give me sh** about that i was in dessert storm

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:07 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

166. Cynic writes:

Modern Satanism largely focuses on the destruction of Christianity, I'm not sure how anyone is particularly surprised by this.

Overall through these last few years I have become quite split philosophically. On one hand I try to be humble, pacifist and non-judgmental through everything I do. On the other hand, the nihilistic part of me says that the only thing that matters, the only thing that matters is fighting for what you believe in, which lends itself to certain extremes such as this article. Currently I try and mix the two, and I guess my eternal rants on this site are a voice for the latter nihilistic antagonist :)

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 6:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
167. TRIPLE L writes:

143^....all people who follow any religon are weak?........what do you think religous poeple think about aethus or satanists?.....that was stupid,....and blind greed why would you insult any christians anyway?....skimming this site, i dont see any radical christians......society today is so f****d up.....no has any respect, for ones beliefs, takes, or personal likings......american patriot i salute you....couldnt agree with you more....

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

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168. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Why call yourself a Christian at all then if you sin and do nothing or just some of what Christian doctrine preaches?

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 7:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jenny's avatar

Member

169. Jenny writes:

XWigglesX: Thanks!

Wilco: With all do respect man, it seems that people on this site who express their religious beliefs are not hypocrites. People that do their own thing (weather it be Christianity, Satanism, Atheism, other ) regardless if anyone else accepts it or not deserve respect. That's all I'm saying.

The worst thing anyone can do is try to make people side with their beliefs, but there should never be restrictions on expressing what other people believe.

Blackmetalgoddess: There is a fine line between people who call themselves Christians and people who are Christians.

Like some other people here, I too try to be open and non-judgmental. The fact is that all people will always differ in their ways and that will never change. That's a fact.

Difference is not a BAD thing, it's just HOW people respond to it that make it bad.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 8:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

170. DeathInEye writes:

AP1, my critiques are of religion in general, the belief of the supernatural, like ghosts, spirits, angels, demons. My own philosophical ponderings lead me to see faulty logic in believing these things as finite beings. If you take that as me questioning you personally, then I'm sorry for that. I think you're a great guy. I've often agreed with elements of your posts, just not now.

As far as fuel efficiency, yes it's been ignored for longer than 8 years, or at least not prioritized. However, something SHOULD have been put in motion AT LEAST in the last 8 years when enviromental issues began surging.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

171. Diamond Oz writes:

No, muslim extremists should not be put in ovens and I'll explain why.

1. If you decide that the best way to punish someone for an evil act is by cooking them alive, then you're commiting an act that's also evil.

2. By killing someone so horribly, they become a martyr to their cause and strengthen the muslim extremists belief that the West is evil. All it will do is make things worse.

I don't want to see my country go under extreme muslum law either, I don't believe a country should enforce a religion on it's people, but as I said before, there's alot more to Islam than we're led to believe.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

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172. XWigglesX writes:

Of you think Islam is all about oppression you need to do some homework.
Countries that are oppressive and Islamic are all dictatorships and ruled by Shara (or however you spell it) law, groups like the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah ect preach it. It is an extremist branch and most Muslims don't believe in this.

# Mar 3, 2009 @ 9:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

173. wilco writes:

yeah but if you kill them they will go to heaven and they will get there virgens
wiggels were i am from lots of moslims live there and most of them are cool just relaxed and they dont believe indeed in that radical stuff
but i believe in a eye for an eye stuff
do think if some country or nation suports terorists or radicals they should be punished

like for exsample in holland we got lots of different cultures here and i do think the should adapt
if not they will need to leave holland and go to were they came from
reason i tell you is that lots of newer moslims come to holland for any reason but they will not adapt
and there preacher is talking radical stuff
so i do think if you will not adapt to the culture of your new country
you got 3 months to change or other wise you are gone

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 5:42 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Red's avatar

Member

174. Red writes:

Still going at it on the religion, faith thing I see. I found out that it's a real loss of time this debate. We're better off just talking about music or saying stupid things, this goes nowhere and is pointless.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 7:18 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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175. americanpatriot1 writes:

BMG: I am a mortal man, therefore I sin. No amount of praying, going to church, not watching t.v, living in a hole I do, will keep me from sinning. It is a humans nature to sin. It's just the way we are wired.

DIE: I have my own problems with it as well. I don't pretend for a second that I am high and mighty. I'm a slug just like everyone else. I like to stay a humble and simple man. As far as the supernatural, yeah, I'm a believer in that stuff too. As far as the fuel thing.....the last 6 years of Bush's tenure was with a Democrat controlled Congress. That says it all right there.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 7:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jenny's avatar

Member

176. Jenny writes:

I just forgot to mention something on my last post...sorry.

Cynic writes: "Modern Satanism largely focuses on the destruction of Christianity, I'm not sure how anyone is particularly surprised by this."

Yeah, but the absence of a building does not change or extinguish a belief.
Again, making it pointless.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 1:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
177. TimW writes:

To post 106.....i have no issue with anyone being proud of there heritage, but when its ok for everyone to be proud unless your a white guy you are considered a rascist. I am proud to be a pure white man from a strong white heritage...but to the blacks that makes me a f***ing rascist, so i just choose to embrace the hatred because i know they hate us anyway, no matter how nice you are to them they always give you that look like i was personally responsible for buying the ships that brought these lazy bastards here and enslaved them....trust me if i lived back in the dy when you could just do the sh** you wanted, i would have had cannons pointed at the slave ships and sunk the slave tradders for bringing trash to this country.

And for all you haters out there, i really dont give a sh** what you think, use your f***ing heads, you know im right.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 3:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

178. Diamond Oz writes:

You insulted entire races, how does that make you right?

I can understand what your saying about the white pride thing, I used to think like that too, but as time goes on I care less because I don't think the colour of my skin is important. I guess some black people might view the white pride thing as an instant racist affiliation because of the history of white people enslaving black. White people also enslaved other white people so whatever. I didn't enslave anyone and I'm not enslaved so I don't see a reason to be bitter one way or the other.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 3:58 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

179. DeathInEye writes:

I guess I don't understand this "white pride." "White pride" implies a preference. I have no preference. To be frank, I don't even care that I'm white. I'm not a fan of "black pride" either. Again, this implies preference. You cannot know which you prefer unless you've been the opposite for an equal amount of time. Heritage really has nothing to do with color anyway. Heritage is about cultural similarities, differences, beliefs and traditions. It has to do with history. A lot of bad history happened to black African-Americans (and some Native and eventually Chinese and Japanese Americans I'll add), so it therefore affected their culture, their heritage.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 4:13 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Devo's avatar

Member

180. Devo writes:

Norwegian Black Metal is sh**. Burning churchs crosses the line. Satan is not real, ya queers. how would you like it if someone burnt down your Satanist Bathhouses? Vikings are cool tho, I'll give Norway that much.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 5:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

181. wilco writes:

tjere we go
yeah we lost sort of track about the music thing we were talking about is it
cant believe there are people who take that black matal stuff serius its just some music dont get me wrong
dut do think the whole black metal sceene sucks nowa days
the true kings of black metal are taking it easy nowa days bands like venom and mercyfull fate
dont make to much black metal any more
so kids dont take it to serious

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 6:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

182. Cynic writes:

DeathInEye is right, being proud of who you are is different from being proud your NOT a descendant of a different race. Which is quite obvious by the way you use the terms "pure". In any case the whole idea of having a pure ancestry is ridiculous if you know anything about biology.

Jenny writes: Yeah, but the absence of a building does not change or extinguish a belief.
Again, making it pointless.

I don't think it's pointless at all - it may be an infantismal gesture in comparison to the size of Christianity but without the first small steps and small protests you will never get on the road to change. Sure I doubt these kids where the smartest (I don't know that for sure though, none of us know anything about this group), but the point is they were protesting against a religious organization which is no small thing.

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 6:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

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183. DeathInEye writes:

I bet you, TimW, didn't know that we had an asteroid nearly crash into Earth on Monday. Think about that and tell me your skin color matters. The asteroid wouldn't care (for obvious and metaphorical reasons).

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 6:58 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

184. XWigglesX writes:

You can't argue with TimW. Ignorant, arrogant rednecks know all

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 9:11 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

185. Diamond Oz writes:

I didn't hear about that DIE. Didn't hear anything about that at all!

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 9:53 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

186. DeathInEye writes:

Yeah it missed by 45,000 miles. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/03/phew_asteroids.html I'm sure this will be flagged so....

# Mar 4, 2009 @ 10:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

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187. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Turn the ovens on, it's an eye for an eye and I think i'd like to exterminate the weak. Martyrism. LOL, we have Jesus for that and can't get rid of it so what's a few more, hmmm?

Yeh, you are a mortal man. No kidding. Don't claim any religion at all whether you call yourself a Christian or believe you are a Christian. The fallacy of Appeal to Traditions is a fault that people need to understand; that it can be overcome.

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 2:03 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
InfernoNecrosis's avatar

Writer / Reviewer

188. InfernoNecrosis writes:

lol @ Tim. White pride is for fags, and so is any other type of colour-based or race pride.

What some people don't realize is that "white" is indefinite. It is technically a term for those with light skin, which could be anyone of most races. It does not describe culture, a specific place, a time; anything that it requires to make someone proud of something is completely absent.

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 8:05 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

189. Diamond Oz writes:

"Turn the ovens on, it's an eye for an eye and I think i'd like to exterminate the weak."

I think I read that some other people in history had that philosophy. It didn't end up making them look too good.

Define weak. I have trouble walking, does that make me weak? I have asthma, does that make me weak? I have faith, does that make me weak? Perhaps in some peoples minds, but not in the minds of others.

Burning people, hanging, shooting, bombing, doesn't help any cause really.

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 9:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
americanpatriot1's avatar

Member

190. americanpatriot1 writes:

Hey BMG, The meek shall inherit the earth.

NP: Killswitch Engage- Reject Yourself

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 10:00 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

191. XWigglesX writes:

I feel comnpassion and sympathy for the sick, homeless, disabled and animals.
Am I weak?

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 5:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

Member

192. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

The weak, i consider those that have a sheep-like mentality. Lack of individualism. Do as what they are told, what to believe in without questioning and lack of looking for solidified answers. Not the physical weak which was a real dumb guess. Caring for the sick, disabled and the love for animals is not weak. The homeless, depends on the people that are homeless. I firmly believe that some folks choose not to accept help and therefore because they are conditioned to the streets, stay there. To # 188: and to whom would these people be i might ask? Don't choose the obvious because he wasn't all that bad.

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 7:37 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Dark_Funeral's avatar

Member

193. Dark_Funeral writes:

Norwegian Black Metal is sh**. Burning churchs crosses the line. Satan is not real, ya queers. how would you like it if someone burnt down your Satanist Bathhouses? Vikings are cool tho, I'll give Norway that much

i suppose you're going to tell us that unearth and the red chord are good metal bands right? slipknots the heaviest band in the world right?? I believe in freedom of speech and expression. I think people can do anything they want when they're aware of the consequences if they get caught. Someone wants to burn a church to the ground, fine. But they should know the risks and be ready to accept conseqquences for their actions.

I hate organized religion of all kinds. Christianity, Satanism, anything. People can't let a false prophet tell them how they should live their life. That if someone punches them in the gut, they should just turn the other cheek because thats "what jesus would've done."

Christianity is a murderous, blood thirsty cult. They've been for years and years. The Crusades were just an excuse to slaughter hundreds of people just because they had a differant thought process. People who follow a god are ignorant sheep blindly following a path to their own psychological prison. Afraid to live life for what it is worth because of fear of sin and hellfire, these people let themselves be captured in a web of lies.

np: behemoth- christians to the lions
what a coincidence, and my ipod's on shuffle songs too!

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 9:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

194. XWigglesX writes:

The Crusades were political. All the major European nations were aiming to get in with the Vatican because it was the boss basically.
Launch a crusade to "free the holy lands" and you are in the favour of the Pope so when you need a hand against your Christian enemies the Vatican can turn others against them too.

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 11:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

Member

195. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

How is Norwegian Black Metal Sh**? Please elaborate #193.

# Mar 5, 2009 @ 11:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

Member

196. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

Oh, and btw, having faith does make you weak if you have faith in a "human as a higher power" that doesn't exist (don't bother with throwing the "burden of proof" to me, it's your cop-out). Have faith in yourself, not in something that was popular 2000 years ago. If religlious people had faith in unicorns, i'd give them more respect....oh and to #190, meek also rhymes with weak, love the irony in that....

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 12:08 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

197. Cynic writes:

To Blackmetalgoddess - Dark Funeral was quoting an earlier post and then responding to it, he just forgot the quotation marks.

Now Playing: Loss - "Cut Up, Depressed and Alone"

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 3:41 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

198. Diamond Oz writes:

Having faith does not make me weak. I choose to believe what I want and I think about my beliefs before I put them into practice, I don't just say "Ah I can't deal with this! Take over for me God." What alot of atheists like yourself don't realize is that it's entirely possible to have faith in both yourself and in a higher being, I'm living proof. By being such a strong atheist and trying to force your opinions on others, that's not really any better than a Christian knocking on your door and trying to convert you.

By the way, if you're reffering to Hitler in the "he wasn't that bad" statement, then I have to say that I am completely disgusted.

Now playing: Matisyahu - Time Of Your Song

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 6:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

199. XWigglesX writes:

Christianity is far more popular and widespread now than it was 2000 years ago.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 1:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
200. Bruno Hockalugie writes:

Diamond Oz- Matisyahu is the sh**!

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 1:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
201. the messenger writes:

post 193 - correction - catholicism is a murderous bloodthirsty cult. There's a major difference between biblical evangelical christianity and roman catholicism : the first is TRUE and the second is FALSE.
post 196 - 'faith in yourself' won't help you once you die. we all have a inescapable destiny with death - then afterwards its JUDGEMENT (Hebrews 9:27)

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 2:37 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Cynic's avatar

Senior Reviewer

202. Cynic writes:

Lol at the guy above, that reminds me of a joke I read recently -

"Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"

Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 3:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blackmetalgoddess's avatar

Member

203. Blackmetalgoddess writes:

LOL, i'm not trying to FORCE my opinions on anyone in the sense that i'm trying to convert. That's a dumb misconception because i'm smarter than that. I don't believe in converting people, i just try to make them see my point. Whether they want to agree and then convert, that's their business. Who ever said I was an atheist? Got the qualities but i don't like to give myself titles. That's good that you have faith in yourself but by finding faith in a "higher being" such as Jesus Christ or the big guy by the name of "M" (can't say anything bad about that guy because the name alone is just so holy i'm merely being given the privilege just to use the letter "M" for it) is subjective but will never have concrete justification for even doing so. It's weak to LITERALLY believe such fairy tales. Anyway, it's an old arguement and it's getting redundant. If you are disgusted because I said Hitler had some good qualities then you are completely and by far one of the utmost igonorant people in dealing with this debate. I'm not saying killing Jews was a good quality either so don't throw that in. There was nothing wrong with Hitler justifying his love for his country and to better the German people which he had with transportation, architecture, German pride, motivation, etc. By creating the Holocaust it did just the opposite unfortunately. Today, it's hard to read new books on this matter because history is only being written by those that had not been there in WWII and merely giving their opinions on just who Hitler was and just how many Jews were killed (which i firmly believe is exaggerrated), so the best thing for me to do is read the older material. What people need to do is read Mein Kampf (My Struggle). It is hard to read because it was translated from German but it's so informative to what was in Hitler's mind and why he did what he did, though it became completely out of control. My interest in this was his mental state, not exterminating Jews. I actually don't care about that and sadly has become such a cash cow for the Jewish people that other cultures have been completely ignored and over shadowed by the holocaust. Pagans were killed, Witches (women) were slaughtered, Armenian genocide? Other innocents were there in history but no, the Jews want all the publicity...ANY WAY...I've got no more to say because my opinions are not of the norm. Actually, here is one more:

For anyone who wants real UP TO DATE METAL NEWS, go to BLABBERMOUTH.NET. They don't repeat the same stories and they don't have party threads that completely ignore the metal issues.

Sorry Kali.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 3:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

204. XWigglesX writes:

What happened to the Jews, gypsies, cripples ect. because of the Nazis is no exaggerated, it is in all probability an understatment. No one ever includes what the Russians did.
And the only good thing about Hitler in my eyes was his belief in animal rights.
His pride in his country wasn't a good thing. If he had so much pride in his country why didn't he stay in Austria?

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 4:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

205. XWigglesX writes:

What happened to the Jews, gypsies, cripples ect. because of the Nazis is no exaggerated, it is in all probability an understatment. No one ever includes what the Russians did.
And the only good thing about Hitler in my eyes was his belief in animal rights.
His pride in his country wasn't a good thing. If he had so much pride in his country why didn't he stay in Austria?
And just because people are willing to stand up for what they believe here its no reason to bag out the site.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 4:26 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Blindgreed1's avatar

Member

206. Blindgreed1 writes:

Blabbermouth sucks a wet fart out of my a$$. I fvcking HATE that site. Full of trolls and 12 year olds who think they know what metal is about. That's why I came here. Here I will stay.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 5:17 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

207. XWigglesX writes:

Lol I like you dude. You're one of my favorites around here.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 5:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
IrishMetal's avatar

Member

208. IrishMetal writes:

Blabbermouth has a sh** layout - MU is much more intuitive and nicer to look at as well.

As to this whole argument, my views can be found on older threads and earlier in this one, and I don't feel the need to restate them.

BMG I think you have an extreme view that few people will agree with, and by the strictures of todays society you are wrong. Maybe back in the olden days of yore what you are saying could be taken on board, but not now - I refer to the people in ovens comments etc.

Wiggles post 199 - I lol'd - I wonder why that might be haha.

All in all I think the Bloodbath debate thread was more fun.

NP - Carved in Stone - Scar Symmetry

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 6:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
wilco's avatar

Member

209. wilco writes:

hey blind greed but here are bunch of dudes and girls as well who think they invented metal music as well
and lots of young ones who have ta ske there parents to go to a concert

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 6:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

210. XWigglesX writes:

Haha I dunno? Because back then it was a cult that was violently suppressed by the Romans?
Lol I have no idea why man. Do tell!

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 6:56 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Jenny's avatar

Member

211. Jenny writes:

Wilco: Nothing wrong with being young, the people who troll are the ones that suck hehe :) Either way I love it here.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 7:03 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
DeathInEye's avatar

Member

212. DeathInEye writes:

First BMG, “I don't believe in converting people, I just try to make them see my point.” This is a major contradiction. On a topic of this nature, it would be generally unethical, and hypocritical of a Theist to admit Atheism makes valid points unless they were willing to convert.

You also say BMG, “Today, it's hard to read new books on this matter because history is only being written by those that had not been there in WWII and merely giving their opinions on just who Hitler was and just how many Jews were killed (which i firmly believe is exaggerated), so the best thing for me to do is read the older material. What people need to do is read Mein Kampf (My Struggle).” One, the first statement is false. Check any Library. Two, Hitler was the ultimate mastermind of propaganda, which therefore disqualifies Mein Kampf.

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 7:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
213. Bruno Hocklaugie writes:

BlindGreed- Amen! Fvck Blabbermouth!

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 7:15 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
214. TimW writes:

Well said post 203....all that needs to be said!

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 8:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
215. Bruno Hockalugie writes:

Wow, I just read the end of post 203. Don't know how I missed that.
(makes permanent mental note of statement and author of said post)

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 8:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

216. XWigglesX writes:

BMG and TimW I guess this is your kind of historian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

# Mar 6, 2009 @ 8:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
217. mfh writes:

I don't want to whine like a moralfag.... burning churches is pretty metal

# Mar 7, 2009 @ 12:23 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Dark_Funeral's avatar

Member

218. Dark_Funeral writes:

history books only disclose the bad sh** hitler did. This is why I have read the rise and fall of adolf hitler, in order to know more about what really happened and honestly the story is quite differant than you would get in a history book.
even though i'm going to get knocked around for stating my opinion, here goes.

Hitler was a brilliant politician. A bit of a fanatic yes, but a very good orator. Hitler was to Germany as Franklin D Roosevelt was to America. Both were magnificent speakers, even in FDR's failing health. Both campaigned for the common man, and both came to power in a time of economic squalor.

I'm not sure any of the people who bash Hitler could turn their country around from people who needed wheelbarrows of worthless money to get half a loaf of bread to a strong country fueled by nationalist pride. Hitler knew how to sway the masses to his side and triumph over any political observation. He surrounded himself in intelligent advisors as well.

Religion is an illusion of hope after death.

As far as the US economy goes, all you pacifists are ignorant. Obama is the new king of federal spending, and all of that comes out of the middle classes pockets. Unfortunately for all the pacifists out there, there needs to be another World War, because that is the only way this country can escape the economic stranglehold we have inflicted upon ourselves.

Other countries want our sh**. America doesnt make anything useful besides guns and overpriced cars that noone wants to buy (I.E: Hummers which are just surpluss military humvees painted bright colors). We make the most reliable weapons and equipment.

# Mar 10, 2009 @ 8:46 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Diamond Oz's avatar

Senior News Correspondent

219. Diamond Oz writes:

Well f*** off back to Blabbermouth then. I studied Hitler for years. Yes it was good that he transformed the German economy. Yes it was good he authorized the building of the motorways. But everything he did right would have happened regardless. When you head a country that organized the holocaust, you lose any respect in my eyes. He knew exactly what was going on and could have stopped it, but being that he was no better than the rest of his little wank brigade, he let it continue. f*** Hitler, f*** the Nazi party and f*** the holocaust deniers.

Regarding a world war to sort out the economy, I'm not sure if that's the best way to achieve it. Times were different back then. Britain was probably like what America is today at the beginning of the war and after it we needed the Americans help bad (no matter what some of us might say.) War isn't always the best answer to revive an economy, think of how much was spent in Iraq.

# Mar 10, 2009 @ 9:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
XWigglesX's avatar

Member

220. XWigglesX writes:

Hitler knew how to manipulate people. That's how he became so powerful.
I think the only thing a world war would do is deliver a nice message to all the trust fund babies and ignorant rich f***s complaining about not being able to buy a 10th car because of the sliding economy what life is really about and what matters.
Adding to Oz's f***s.. I'll throw in f*** Capitalism, f*** ignorant people like TimW and most importantly go f*** yourself if you think material wealth is important.

# Mar 10, 2009 @ 11:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address

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