OpEd
Was Adrian McCoy, The Man Arrested For Threats Against Korn, A Metal Underground.com Reader?
Band Photo: Korn (?)
It's not exactly the kind of publicity that I'd want for Metal Underground.com or for metal as a whole, but the question has been eating away at me since first reading about the man arrested for making death threats against Korn and then recently trading emails with the author of this article, who links the timelines of the reported threats made against Korn online (before those made on the FBI's site) to that of the postings and ultimate banning of the infamous Metalunderground.com reader and commenter LordAgony.
Adrian McCoy, of Sacramento, pleaded guilty in federal court last Friday to threatening the band.
The prosecutor told ABC23 that McCoy made threats on a metal underground-related Web site in January of 2006. While metalunderground.com did not confirm if McCoy made threats against Korn on their site, one user using the name, LordAgony, was kicked off the site at that time for making threats against the band, saying he wanted the band destroyed.
The reality is that I have no way of knowing who this Adrian McCoy is. Things look like they are adding up, but the question remains: is Adrian McCoy the LordAgony who posted (and trolled) on Metalunderground.com a couple years ago?
I was, in fact, contacted by the FBI sometime last year regarding "threats made toward someone on Metalunderground.com." They did not state who was making the threats or who the threats were against. I did not think much of it at the time. The call actually seemed a little fishy, so I wasn't even sure it was legit, and I have since misplaced the agents' names. In any case, I told them that I had no other information but the poster's screen name and IP address linked to the posts. No further information was ever requested or furnished (not even the IP addresses). They wouldn't need it if the perpetrator was foolish enough to make such threats on the FBI's web site.
I recently revisted some of LordAgony's comments and did a reverse DNS lookup on several of the IP Addresses, and while some would not resolve completely, most did point to California.
But back to the topic of making threats on the FBI's web site. That's the part that I just don't get, and it leads me to believe this person had really lost touch with reality or was reaching out for help/trying to get caught. Seriously, who goes to the FBI's web site to threaten a band? We could be dealing with a seriously delusional Nathan Gale-type personality here.
I have many reasons for bringing this topic up here on Metalunderground.com. Pure curiosity is a big one. Is Adrian McCoy LordAgony? It's a neat bit of trivia from Metal Underground.com's past at the very least.
I also wanted to assure our readers that their privacy was maintained despite my tongue-in-cheek comment in the comments of this article that "I've sent all server logs to the FBI." Clearly other commenters recognize the animosity shown towards Korn (for their music) by many readers of this site, and my comment was simply in jest. As I said, no information was furnished (or requested) to the FBI or any other branch of law enforcement.
There are a couple morals to this story. First, you are always accountable for your actions, even if you think you are "anonymous." Some people do and say things online that they would never say in person. Even though the chances are slim, just remember you may be called on your words one day. Second, it's a reminder - one that I had to make recently in another thread - that we will not tolerate personal attacks on this site. I try not to be a heavy-handed moderator and I let quite a bit of stuff slide here, but there is a line and crossing it will result in being banned from Metal Underground.com.
Back to my curiosity about the matter. I've been told that Metal Underground.com was mentioned by name on TV broadcasts on this topic, but have not heard any such newscasts directly. If anyone has more information linking Adrian McCoy to Metalunderground.com and/or LordAgony, please send me links by posting them here or via the contact form. Videos of mentions in newscasts would be awesome. I'll offer up a small reward for the best sources reported.
Stay metal, and stay civil! :-)
Update: thanks to D@Z from KoRnUnderground.nl for the video link that mentions Metalunderground.com in it.
Davis' father "not phased" by threats:
A self-described "metal geek," Doug Gibson has been listening to heavy metal for more than twenty years and designed and coded Metal Underground.com from scratch over ten years ago.
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106 Comments on "Was Adrian McCoy A Metal Underground.com Reader?"
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Wow, i remember Lord agony. Always got into nonstop arguments with korn fans about how much he hated them. It only got worse when korndog came and the arguments got even more heated. Never liked korn though so i always found it to be amusing but never expected something like this to happen but it makes sense that it was him.
Whad Up Folx-
I haven't been here in a while-not so much because of that irritating conversation I had with someone here, but more cos I've been crazy busy working on projects-so let me start by giving props to DeathBringer, BoltThrower, etc I had a lot of fun conversations with you cats.
As far as this all goes, I remember Lord Agony-never thought it would come to that.
I have strong feelings about a few musicians-I think I recognize them more as just people than most do. In retrospect I did say some things that crossed the line with one particular musician, but I have trouble with people's hatred for a person/band over music...? Korn hasn't done anything to warrant hatred, even if you don't like what they do-I mean-killing them because they don't solo and tune low?...I think the whole things is pretty weird...I hope LA gets some help/hope more than anything else-obviously something is wrong (that's not a diss).
Anyway-I'll see if I can make it back a little more often-I'm remembering how fun it was...
Peace-
J
Supporter
Hasn't Korn gotten a bunch of death threats in the past? It seems that this is not the first time I have heard of someone getting in trouble with the law for threatning them. I also think that jail is a bad idea for Adrian. He needs a mental ward... not be locked up with a bunch of criminals that will only tell him how to get the job done. I also hope that everyone knows that I do joke about wanting to shoot people... then again it sounds like this guy said he was going to kill Korn. There is a differance there. Can someone link me to Lord Agony's post's? I am wondering what all he said.
Writer/Reviewer
WOW!
I remember that kid!!!
I always thought of him as melodramatic and not especially serious--Like he was just playing to the room because we dislike Korn too...I kindof assumed he was upping the ante just to get aproval....This isn't in good taste but....
Now Playing: Korn - "Good God" (ah, highschool)
Supporter
Ok... At first I thought "who the hell is LordAgony", because I've never heard of this site when he was posting.
Then I decided to check a random Korn article (dec 2005 or something)... Holy sh*t, now that's one big f*cktard. He even ADMITTED to be a virgin!
Korn does suck, thought.
I wish more people would listen to the morals of the story that you pointed out, deathbringer. People talk so much sh** around here it has got to the point I usually don't even bother reading the comments anymore. I enjoy discussions, but I have better things to do than banter with people about how much they think a band sucks, which is what most threads entail.
Yes, we know that you think Metallica sucks. We know you think Trivium, Bullet For My Valentine, Avenged Sevenfold, Korn, etc... etc... sucks. Get over it, and talk about something else for a change.
Supporter
I usually save my "Metallica sucks" comments for when they post something about how great the next album is going to be. If the next album is going to be so great, why did the last 4 suck? But I'm not saying anything that everyone here doesn't already know so I'll try to refrain from now on. Or at least until I read a story about how the next Metallica album is going to be delayed in order to make it even better. Right.
And just because I think they suck doesn't mean I'm going to threaten anyone over it. I'll just threaten to not buy another Metallica album.
Supporter
The one good thing they did was mention that a Moderator did say that we was crossing the line and that they took action to stop him. They could have ommited that and made people think that MU just let it happen. There is proof that the mods here did not like it, but people would not take the time to investigate and would think that the staff here let him get out of hand. It's one thing to bash a band and state your distain for them, but it seems to me he was kinda crazy about it and obsessed with it. I think that if he was going into non-Korn related threads costantly talking about it then he was not just "uping the ante," but rather being obsessed. I understand that in alot of ways people go online and say things they would not say in person and lie, but there are people that are honest about what they are saying. As much as I hate Korn am happy that something is being done about this. We have learned in the past that you can't take that type of thing lightly. I say alot on here "I wish this band would die," but don't mean that I wish them harm. I wish that band would break up and never make music again. As much as Lars irritates me would at most back hand the guy and tell him to shut up. Killing him or threatning his life would be going way too far in my opinion.
Even still Kalis, why would you wish for a band to break up and stop making music? There's many people out there who DO really like any band that you wish would break up, why take that away from them? I don't suppose that you'd like that to happen to a band that you like, just because someone else hates them? You know how the saying goes... be careful what you wish for.
I suppose that is your opinion, which you are certainly entitled to, but I think that wishing a band to break up is a bit aggressive. Anyway, I'm not trying to stir up the pot, just trying to give people another perspective.
Supporter
As you said that's my opinion. I do wish that mpore people on this site would have that in mind when their favorite band gets bashed on here. I know it seems aggressive to you, but to me aggressive is threatning the bands life like Adrian (UGH! That is my abusive ex-husbands first name and begining to think that all Adrians are nut jobs!) did. Do I understand that other like listening to that band? Fully and 100%! Music is art and art is sujective. Wether I like that band or not and want them to quit makeing music is my opinion and if you like them then I say "whatever floats your boat."
Supporter
I think this might be the right time for this as the only ones left are the long-posters.
It's not so much that Metallica's music sucks, it's just that they are capable of much better. If they had hit the scene as a angry-tinged arena-rock band out to make a buck I'd have nothing to say about them just as I say practically nothing about all other bands that I don't listen to. It's music, music for others, just not for me. What I have against Metallica is that it wasn't enough for them to become merely millionaires creating face-melting thrash that helped define an entirely new genre. No, they wanted to become multi-millionaires by switching to a more mainstream sound that dozens of arena rock bands were already doing. And for what? What can you do with $100,000,000 that you can't do with just $1,000,000? Live like some Hollywood starlet?
I remember Newsted replying when an interviewer asked if he had sold out. His response was something like, "Sure we sold out...every arena, every night." Look where that got him. Leaving the band in order to again pursue creativity rather than money. The money isn't nearly as rewarding to you on your deathbed as knowing that you peeled off album after album of pure creativity. Metallica will forever suck until they realize that money pales in comparison to true blistering metal.
Well, I will agree with you that Metallica are (probably) capable of much more than they have been doing over the past couple albums, but I find arguments based purely on monetary reasons unconvincing. I've heard everything from their going for a more mainstream sound to the Napster ordeal. However, at the end of the day, unless you have a quote from Lars or James saying, "We changed our sound because we could make more money," or "We don't care about the music anymore, we just want your money," all of that is pure speculation.
Bands evolve and mature, an effect of the band-members doing the same. Naturally, that evolution will put off many fans since they came to like the band because of their previous achievements. Bands that continually churn out similar sounding albums grow stale and lose fans as well. So it's a Catch-22. Stay the same and become obsolete to all but die-hards, or grow and piss some fans off while gaining more in the process.
Maybe they just made the music they wanted to make, and didn't care what people thought or how much money they could make? Isn't that the ideal way of going about it? Do you really think that if money was their only motivation that they would've released St. Anger (It has sold the least amount of any of their albums)? If all they wanted was to make money, they would've released a rap or pop album.
Supporter
It's been nearly 15 years now but one thing I do remember James saying during the Black album backlash was, "We can't carry those fans anymore." I'm not sure exactly what he meant but what I and many other fans at the time thought he meant was that he wanted new fans. What I read into that was he wanted MORE fans. More fans = more money.
Writer/Reviewer
kk
Yeah man I was listening to Korn arm in arm with Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Pantera and Tool back in the mid and late 90's. Back then I felt Korn had something to offer. The times, my taste and Korn changed though.
"Proud" was on the I Know What You Did Last Summer Soundtrack. Type O had a song on that one too.
Korn were never great but I enjoyed their output from 94-99. Kinda moved on to tech, death, black, grind and modern prog after that though.
Now Playing: Hate Eternal - "Thus Salvation"
i like you RM.. and i respect your opinion .. even though i am a die hard korn fan i understand what you mean. times change.
korn is NOT the best band around, nor will they ever be. they are my favourite band, but i can say there not technical or really that heavy. even tho there music is goin on a downhill i still respect them as musicians and as people and i'll probably always support them.
while there still in the back of my head, im kind of exploring into bands such as despised icon , TTEOTD, Meshugga and etc. my taste in music is changing as i get older ahah
NP: Jefferson Airplane-White Rabbit
I like what kk said its true I am guaranteed one of the biggest Korn fan's out there and I liked there music from '93 to '03 the best than they changed to something I don't really like that much at all but I still support them because their music from '93 - '03 changed my life and made me what I am today and saved me... I really can relate to their lyrics, some can't. It's all good their old fan's listen to their older music and different fan's like the newer Korn it's all good though I still have a feeling they will release one more Heavy album before they retire :) I will alway's support them no matter what even though I dis-liked See You On The Other Side alot I still bought the album, deluxe album, singles and more, lol even Chopped, Screwed, Live and Unglued all because I know if we can keep them supported and singing they will make fan's again really happy and bring out something we all loved once again out of no where :) I believe in Korn! :) (If you don't like their new music, listen to their old music, or the other way around, or if you don't like them at all you don't have to threaten them or b**** about them, just let Korn be.)
Supporter
"Are you saying that less fans means better music?"
Yes, at least for that smaller number of fans. That group of fans wanted something that obviously wasn't being offered by the mainstream bands or original Metallica wouldn't have gotten any fans at all. Original Metallica built a fair following of these fans but realized they couldn't become multi-millionaires with that form of music. The only reason to commercialize had to be to get more money and the original fans be damned.
BoltThrower-don't remember if you're a musician or not but one thing does happen that you may not have considered-people grow and their taste change. It's not always just 'we have to make more money'. Sometimes a band tries to make a commercial record and it fails.
Othertimes people want to expand, and like it or not, Metal is a fairly limited sound. Though much as few old school Metallica fans want to admit it (and I was one of those guys passing on their demos to friends) 'The Black Album' really did SOUND better than all their previous records. I don't like the songs more than the old stuff, but the production was a quantum lead. Many people refer to that as their best record-to me it was their first really commercial record. Hell, I remember when people said they sold out with 'Fade to Black'...
In a different genre, I HATED when U2 went from 'Unforgettable Fire' and 'Joshua Tree' to 'Rattle and Hum'-I thought it made not sense for them to dumb down their sound, but its their band, they wanted to try something different. It isn't always-'let's just sell out...'
...and lastly-in agreement with you this time-let's just say a band does just sell out- When you've made a decision to be a professional musician and bills are starring you in the face and you have no $$$ when you're not on the road, its very hard not to make a record that will lead to more monetary options. You may not eat otherwise...
Supporter
Eating definitely beats not eating but unless Metallica was extremely wasteful with their money they should have had plenty of cash rolling in. They might have garnered the largest underground following ever. And there are other bands that have stayed true to form over nearly as long of a run proving that it is possible to stay true to your core fanbase and still eat fairly well.
Oh yeah, without a doubt. I think Metallica's biggest issue really is that they lost interest in what they were doing and thought their audience would 'grow' with them. They thought they could just change styles and no one would have a problem. If you take another perspective on your argument-they had plenty of money, doing the Album 'Load' was more rebellious than not-they could have just done another 'Black Album'. I'm not defending that record-I hated it then but is staying true to your fan base reproducing the same style record or trying something new?
Supporter
I agree with Bolt Thrower's comment's. A band the size of sh**allica would have to be burning up thousands of dollars a day to go hungry. Furthermore they make it back that night at their show. You would have to be very wasteful and bands tend to not have much time on the road to shop... it's work, work, work.
OK, yet another take... in the end, if they want to spend all the money up they could because its THEIR band. NONE of us are in Metallica-they can make whatever music they like-its our option to buy or not. They don't OWE us anything. The big lie is 'your fans made you'. The big truth is that you put out a product that people enjoy or not and those people vote with their pocket books. That's the reality...
Supporter
Uh... S.E, without fans a band dies! That is how it has always been and always will be. If you have no one in which want's to buy your stuff you can't make money... It's like a company... if no one buys there product then the company can't pay it's bills and they go out of buisness... Why did I just have to explain that to you? Are you 3 years old?
LOL-This site hasn't changed...reread my post. Its a symbiotic relationship-that's my point.
...and btw I'm 37, I run 3 businesses and have been dealing with the music industry probably longer than you've been alive. Product and supplier are always codependents-Metallica created a product that resonated with people and then some that didn't. Its nieve to think it all just magicly happened in a vaccum.
...and K W
If you actually did understand the process, you would know its:
Band>;product>;promotion (whatever means)>;fan.
Simply put-if no one knows about your product, your band dies. Anyone who truely understands the business model understands fans are actually last in the chain. That's the reality.
Supporter
Um.. no it does not! It goes band, fans (with no one to want to listen to the music a record company won't pay for a band to make records), product (shirts, albums, hat's ect), promotion then money! I have family that have been in the music industry, friend in the music industry, and know my sh** thank you very much! I have spent 23 years dealing with musicians and not a one of them have fed me that line of crap! If you own three company's then they must not be doing too well as you seem to not know what you are talking about! I also don't just trust what someone types online either... for all I know you could be a dum at a library computer. Got refs? Doubt you would be willing to give them to me anyway.
Supporter
Scorched Earth is right. In the end Metallica belongs to James, Lars, Kirk, and all of Cliff's replacements so they can flush if they so choose. I reserve the right to stay angry though. I'd sure be interested to hear Clif Burton's take on it. Are there any reasonably priced necromancers still around?
...and just so you can humiliate yourself more...explain to me how a band CAN be successful if no one knows about them...?(that is called promotion, my idiot friend). Metallica simply tapped into a network and tape traders (ie-connnector/first responders) and THEY made Metallica successful. That's how it always works.
Tell all your friends and family in the industry that you want a band to be successful without promotion and watch how they look at you.
...and my business are doing very well, thank you.
Writer/Reviewer
Wasn't this thread about a mental case threatening murder?...
I can DEPEND on this exact conversation coming up at least twice a year. Most regularly on the Korn and Metallica threads.
Regarding Promotion: Getting the word out is one thing. If I were in a blackened-death-symphoinic-math metal band (which there aren't enough of) I'd want the whole world to know about it.
Dumbing down (Metallica) having guest vocals from an American Idol(!) (shame on you Sevendust) star and pleading to the camera to keep you in rotation on TRL (pretty much every nu-metal act) are indeed classic examples of selling out.
Regarding Production quality: Some think a glossy finish on an otherwise CRUSHING death metal album is selling out. I disagree. Black album may have "sounded" better but the riffs, solos and song structures --as a rule-- did not. I'd have loved a RTL, MOP, or AJFA(<~~needed it) with some broader production depth.
Metallica chose to sell out and with Black and they nearly did it with grace. If Load was an attempt to rebel and Reload was a tantrum to reinforce the first rebellion--St. Anger was obviously the nervous breakdown.
This is why each interview finds Metallica mining the MOP era when discussing the new album. Trying to win back disgruntled fans must seem like the only way to stay afloat....Coming back to the same fans they waved bye-bye to in '91.
Tables got all turny.
and yeah I'm still looking forward to the new Metallica and I talk too much.
Now Playing: Meshuggah - "Dehumanization"
wow, that guy was Kooky. but that's just the man trying to control our thoughts and freedom of speech. i mean, he was saving countless young kids who were "liking" korns music and to dumbass to relize that korn sucks. the government should be getting threats not korn. they're probably monitoring this post right now. i know how this works, theres certain keywords that attract their attention. i get your damn attention you commies!
PRESIDENT
BOMB
ASSASSIN
NEW WORLD ORDER
open your eyes.
Senior News Correspondent
God damn it what's with all the conspiracy nuts that keep popping up on this site?! Quite frankly if I was in the government and i saw "president" and "assassin" or "Bomb" in the same sentence, I'd be monitering it too. It's not really a conspiracy, just common sense!
Writer/Reviewer
There are no winners, only the mental impaired and the psychologically sound...Mccoy needed help and now he'll spend the rest of his days getting it....Metallica need a different kind of help and Korn are beyond help.
Now Playing: Rage Against the Machine -"Wind Below"
Supporter
If it was him I for one am not shocked.Being one of 4 people he clashed with for no actual reason.The kid was definitley out there.He kept going on about TuPac & what he'd think.II love Hip Hop as much as I love METAL,BUT WHO CARES WHAT PAC WOULD THINK.THIS IS A METAL SITE! Anyway the kid was nut's.
Supporter
"I dont see what the problem is with korn can somebody give me an intelligent answer and not just bash them and say they suck?"
You don't have to find a problem with Korn that is your opinion. My opinion is that Korn has David Silveria in the band who is easily one of the most boring drummers in music. The bass is not that good (Fieldy uses a lot of slap bass and I hate slap bass). Munky and Head recycle the same riffs over and over again to the point of boredom. It's not like the riffs were good anyway, entirely too simplistic. Jonathan Davis is without a doubt the worst vocalist I have ever heard and his angst ridden lyrics are both chilidish and poorly written. They rely on distortion and a downtuned sound. When they started they were not good but it was something new and now they play stuff that sounds like they are trying to be a clone of their contemporaries. The song writing is HORRIBLE. They covered One by Metallica and made it sound all nu-metalish, I hate nu-metal, they successfully ruined it, and One just happens to be my favorite song of all time. They started nu-metal, and I hate nu-metal for its simplicity, for its poser sound and image, and the aweful angst ridden lyrics.
Supporter
I don't really like Korn thes day's mainly due to the fact that they seem to have lost that level inner anger.That was previlent up until peachy.Yes there is alot of angst.But to be considerd Mettal Nu or otherwise anger must be present.It's just not the same.
but you know who is even more evil than the government, john hagee!
He's probably the biggest bigot i've ever seen. what a hipocrit pedophile c***sucker a$$hole!
i hate him more than anyone else on this earth! he's such an idiot not to realize that christianity is not the only f***ing religion out their. if they are truly about peace and love and bells, why is he preaching hate to all the dumbasses who believe him? he thinks 9/11 was god punishing us for the behaviours of pagans and gays and jews and everyone else! some of the most creative, charismatic, smart, and friendly people i've ever met were gay and/or pagan! if hagee and his idiotic god-fearing simpletons he calls followers were running the world, we'd still be in the dark ages!
np: metallica- master of puppets :)
Supporter
I remeber when Red Devil came back for that short while and even that was irritateing to me! He was here long before I was. Just out of coureosity has there been a chick on here who posted regular like me and stuck around as long or longer? Seems that that Fallen chick is m.i.a.
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This is a great article. Whether a music-related or news site, I think all blogs/forums run the risk of having people troll looking for trouble. I read through all the comments from those articles and think you did a great job of moderating. People who love metal music should keep coming back to this site, posting, and engaging in good conversation... personal attacks always suck. But like I tell other bloggers, you do have to have thick skin... - Nick, ABC23