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Swedish Psychologist Worried About Chain Reaction With Dessection Frontmans Suicide

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DISSECTION frontman Jon Nödtveidt's suicide could have a profound effect on his fans, says psychologist Lisa Ineland in an interview in the Swedish newspaper Expressen.

"Research shows that these incidents have a copycat effect even if it's not a famous person who commits suicide," she says. "But obviously the impact is greater if the act is committed by a role model. That was apparent when Kurt Cobain killed himself."

The black metal culture often revolves around death and suicide and as a faithful Satanist Jon Nödtveidt often spoke in positive terms about suicide. According to Lisa Ineland, his suicide doesn't have to be related to Satanism or black metal.

"I believe there's a severe, underlying depression behind it. It's not rational behavior to do something like this. Very few people take their own lives because of their conviction. That type of act is not part of our culture. This is about him not getting the help he needed."

Concerned parents should make it a point to talk to their children.

"You could ask them, 'How do you [view Jon's suicide]?' and ask if they're discussing it with their friends," says Ineland. "You should try to be a part of your child's reality. You should always try to be a present role model and talk to your children about important and existential issues, what life is all about and how important children are."

The Swedish writer Mattias Pettersson is working on a book about the influence of Satanism in black metal and was preparing an interview with Jon Nödtveidt.

"I wanted to talk to him because he was unique in the genre," says Pettersson. "He was for real and really lived that way he taught. I think most people in black metal are just regular hard rockers to whom religion is not that important. It's easy to write a cliché lyric about murder and death, but if you read Jon's lyrics you notice that he became more and more serious."

Pettersson thinks it's tragic that Jon took his own life.

"He was a huge talent. For an outsider it might be difficult to come to terms with what has happened, but to me personally it was expected."

Source: Blabbermouth

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40 Comments on "Psychologist Worried About Chain Reaction Suicides"

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psythe's avatar

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1. psythe writes:

That's unfortunate, sounds like Pettersson's interview would have been extremely interesting.

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 12:50 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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2. rising end writes:

you bet. im sure someone has already mentioned it but his case reminds me of emperor's drummer faust where he killed a homosexual man in a similar setting, except it was with a knife. and no suicide. it's always interesting to know the point of view of a person in their position... their motivation, their reasons... which maybe twisted and unjustifiable by social standards.

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 2:59 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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3. psythe writes:

I was more interested in his state-of-mind and reasoning behind his suicide. Considering that it seems the reason had nothing to do with depression like it does almost every other time. But it is always intriguing to "get inside the mind of a killer".

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 3:08 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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4. kev74d writes:

Sad.

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 6:17 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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5. steve richey writes:

I have been deeply affected by jons death.

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 11:56 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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6. KORNDOGG writes:

Are you going to kill yourself too! Are you going to party with jon in "transylvania" !
This guy needed help and so does any one who listens to his music or is deeply affected by his death!

Dear satanists,
GET SOME f***ING HELP!!!!!!!!!!

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 12:43 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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7. KORNDOGG writes:

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 4:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
8. KORNDOGG writes:

I hope steve richey didnt really kill himself! hahaha!

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 6:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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9. BLACKDOG writes:

I've done some research into Satanism & Demonology.(mostly for sh**'s & giggles)I don't have the slightes idea what would drive someone to be a part of it on that level.I did not find anything uplifting about it.Then when you read the info on the various Demon's & Fallen Angels.Assuemeing these creatures are real.They do not have any good intention's for human's or thier soul's.You gotta wonder what would drive someone to be a part of this stuff much less commit suicide.

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 7:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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10. Terminator writes:

BLACKDOG--maybe to feel like you're apart of something. that is often the drive for individuals to be in cults, to belong to something. religion also shares this commonality, once you're a member, you fit right in and can instantly relate to millions of people and make oodles of friends. theoretically of course.

this event is also more evidence on just how powerful music and its musicians are in our society. they are role models, whether good or bad, they are role models. for some people, music is all that they have to escape from the real world or to lift them from their sadness.

yet, there is no larger role model than a parent. a lot of parents out there lack the initiative to talk to their kids or spend time with them. whether they are too busy with work or too f***ing lazy to put down their beer and remote and cant be bothered, its all about parenting.

Korndogg-- even though i may personally not agree with Jon's life style or choices, who are you to tell the satanists how to live their lives? as long as they dont inflict physical harm upon others, they are entitled to believe in whatever crazy-ass-sh** they want to. that goes for everybody. unfortunately, jon did kill someone. he also served his time. though i feel that he should have been imprisoned for life, i blame the courts more for f***ing that one up. this is a tragic event either way.

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 8:04 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
morbid_princess's avatar

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11. morbid_princess writes:

I personally don't believe in satanism or anything, even if i do listen to black and death metal. I'm not going to say that is 100% ridiculous although most of the people who "believe" in that basically do it for fun or to get attention. I do say I have met members of satanic cults and ironically they tend to be happy (which means they are satisfyied with their beliefs...)
Even if I think that satanism itself is somewhat idiotic I respect other's reasons to believe in that...as long as they give me stablished ones. Because most of the people (wheter its satanism, christianism, buddism etc) don't know what they're talking about. But if they are real believers you have my respect just like any other person deserves.

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 9:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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12. BLACKDOG writes:

Yeah I could almost understand that.But the most famous Satanist of the last century was Alisteir Crowley(yes Crowley as in Mr.Crowley The SABBATH SONG).He founded the Satanic church.His story actually made for some truly interesting reading.In any event he did not commit suicide however when he died he was penniless and alone.He apparently sufferd a nervous breakdown due to the death of his only son.Who apparently died dureing a satanic ritual that involved the consumtion of human blood.

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 10:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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13. killingtime writes:

Crowley was a twisted fellow - to say the least. But more or less a joke to anyone who'd abide by any type of social contract.

Neo-Satanists (as I heard them disgustingly called) are of the LeVayian following (Anton Szandor LaVey - founded the Church of Satan in San Francisco, CA in 1966). Meaning, as written in the Satanic Bible - no consuming of flesh (unless someone - a person - is willing to sacrifice themselves). No killing of animals, because animals are the highest forms of life, they are driven by need and instinct. To slaughter them would be like slaughtering a god. Young children, free from the corruption beset upon them by living and experiencing are viewed much like animals - they're pure, acting on what is good for them.

The first and highest law is: SELF PRESERVATION.
If you think that's bullsh** you'd better check what's important to you. If it's not your own life there may be something amiss.

Satanism is - the belief in the ever present fact that people behave by natural principles, 9 times out of 10 - for their own benefit.

Terminator - "as long as they dont inflict physical harm upon others, they are entitled to believe in whatever crazy-ass-sh** they want to."
The line goes: "if one should smite you on the cheek, smite him back twice as hard. Be like a lion in the path - vicious, even in defeat." Any type of physical violence needs to be justified... revenge is the quickest way to do so.
Meaning that upon being struck should one defend himself. I have no tolerance for physical abuse. Omerta (a code of honor amongst thieves, if there is such a thing) - if you wound me and I live - I'll kill you. If you kill me - you are forgiven. I can thank LOG for that one.

Korndogg - you're a f***ing idiot for grouping us all together in one class. That'd be like me grouping you with every other single Korn fan that exists. Don't do that sh** . Generalization are to be kept for statistical analysis, not to make rules.

Morbid Princess - "christianism"... do you know G. "Dubya"? Because that's a near Bushism. Christianity, mi amiga.

For the record:
I AM a Satanist (neo-Satanist if you so wish)-(The second reason I decided to scroll through the stupidity of some of these posts after reading the article).
I hold a BA in psychology (the first reason).

We can come from anywhere.
It's as real as you want it to be. Or need it to be, as the case is such, for people flock to systems of values which suit them best. Hence the reason religion is a big thing. Structure and preservation of the self through continuity are stong guides.

May you have learned something here.

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 12:11 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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14. psythe writes:

FINALLY! someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to "Satanism" and the CoS. It annoys me no end when people try and tell me that so called "Satanists" worship 'the Devil' (an idiotic name for the Overlord of Hell - or part thereof - considering the nature of DevilS - yes, plural - and Daemons). The entire religion has almost exactly nothing to do with Lucifer at all. It is, as you said, about Self-preservation. The survival (often through the empowerment) of the self. Me before you. That said, it isn't an unethical religious tradition, either - they have their ten commandments same as anybody else. I believe one of the more important ones is "Never strike first, but if you are attacked, restraint is not necessary" or something along those lines. Don't know the actual wording. Another is not to enter a homestead without invitation, I think.

And no, I'm not a Neo-Satanist, Satanist, or whatever. I just did the tiniest bit of reading into the subject (indeed, mainly for sh**s and giggles). But I readily admit that following the Church of Satan and its' Unholy Bible makes a lot more sense to me than following, say, Christianity, which has instigated more death over the millenia than any Devil could possibly dream of doing...

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 12:29 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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15. nightsblood writes:

I don't even know why I am writing this, but I think it is out of my hatred for Korndogg. In regards to your reference to 'transylvania,' if you knew anything about anything in metal you might be able to put the following together. In the Dissection song, "Frozen" there is a reference to Transylvania, "I, Transylvanian son, " if my memory is correct. Furthermore, Dead of Mayhem, committed suicide in 1991 with a shotgun blast to the head. In the infamous picture of the scene he is wearing a shirt which read, "I Love Transylvania." So if you knew as much about 'metal' as you do Dungeons and Dragons, you might have been aware to the references, or at least some metal history.

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 12:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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16. BLACKDOG writes:

Ok.Then my next question would be to Psythe & Killingtime.Why call it Satanism.I'm a sinner I openly admit knowones perfect but still a christian.But out of curiosity why call it Satanism ? If it really has little or nothing to do with the Morning Star.This stuff is pretty much common sense and like most people I live my life pretty much by the same philosophy although possibly not as extreme.

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 6:08 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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17. psythe writes:

Even if the religion doesn't worship the Fallen Angel himself, it does "worship" what he symbolised; questioning authority, free-thinking, acting for your own good over that of others, etc etc etc... You've got to stop thinking of Biblical characters as real creatures, and start thinking of them as metaphors, analogies, allusions...

And if nothing else, it's a marketing ploy; it wouldn't get as much interest or "bad" publicity in the mainstream perception if it was called something completely unrelated to anything. eg "Boatism" or something. For some odd reason, the word 'Satan', and thus 'Satanism', has a profound effect on peoples' thinking. Beats me why...

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 9:37 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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18. BLACKDOG writes:

We'll probably never agree on this.But by worshipping what he symblizes your pretty much worshipping him & theirfore what he represent's.Or atleast that's how I see it.Every religion ultimatley encourages it's followers to atleast attempt to be as much like it's Icons as possible.That's where I tend to fall out with other christians.(I'm a baptist.That should give some idea of the crap I've some times landed in the middle of.)

It does not mean that some of these rules we have are not open to enterpretation or atleast applied when necessary.That's how I do it.Then againe even though I'm a Baptist.I'm slowly but surely leaning toward's Budhism or atleast Taoism.These are the thing's that seem to make more sense to me.I'm still learning though.That's why I don't claime to be either yet.

Hell I ounce had an argument with someone over the Kama Sutra.She (yes it was a female) saide it was sinful and people should not have it in a good christian relationship.I really hated to point this out to her in the way I did(she's my aunt)But I explained that it was a book for couples who are married or just in a committed relationship.Followed by WHAT THE f*** IS SINFUL ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!.I'm sure you can imagine the following sh** storm.

Anyway to each his own I guess.

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 10:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
19. Terminator writes:

christian propaganda is so strong that it can make anything seem evil. the famous puritan minister jonathan edwards, for example, was able to control how his followers behaived by threatening that everything other than worshiping is a sin and for every sin you will burn in hell. of course, hell itself and satan himself were created for this purpose. throughout history, every time that the church has started to lose its hold on society, they have changed the bible or added on to it to keep its following and to keep its pockets full (i.e. the new testament, book of revelations). satan and hell have morphed from being nothing more than hell being the place to hold the damned, and satan as the man in charge. it was just a job. now he is the ultimate evil and hell, especially after daunte's inferno, is the ultimate place of pain and suffering. this applies to more than just the religious texts. islams label of the united states being the "great satan" is just a new way to keep the following loyal and keep the followers worshiping and giving money. of couse im not that stupid, i know that there are many other reasons for why america is hated, its just a theory.

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 10:59 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
evilcheeba's avatar

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20. evilcheeba writes:

Killingtime - Thank you for the quick lesson. I find the different "religious" beliefs very interesting. I've been doing a bit of reading on the early "heretical" sects in Europe during Christianity's early period and it is amazing how some of these people were viewed by Christians and others who had no idea what their faith was all about. It sounds like the preconcieved notions about Satanism that many people who know nothing about it have are completely and utterly off base. Very interesting.

# Aug 23, 2006 @ 11:09 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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21. Bestial Invasion writes:

As I have previously stated under a different topic reguarding Jon's demise, this goes to show you what religion does to you. I laugh in the face of all these so called Satanists! It is comical how they bash Christianity but at the same time they are no different. Though they talk about liberation and freedom from "god" etc.., they are still part of some organized system, and are bound to its rules and codes of belief.
"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dares not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed." --Bertrand Russell

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 12:39 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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22. killingtime writes:

Psythe - you pretty much nailed the reason Satanism was called such. LaVeyian Satanism is a strike primarily against Christianity, hence the usage of the word, the most evil ("live" backward) word known - Satan... it, just by the name, places everything Christian devotees would stand for in the opposite light. Lucifer is - after all - the bringer of light, the morning star, the possessor of all knowledge for he has served as an angel and had subsequently been villified by God (or at least the men who wrote the story, for what makes a good story but a really cool villian? Superman wouldn't have been sh** without Lex Luthor, nor would Batman have been without the Joker.... see it?).

To be enlightened it's important to follow the clues offered by human nature, not by buying into spiritual pipe dreams written by men then believed by others as if they flowed from the mouth of "God".


Blackdog - a baptist leaning toward another religion... I bet you catch sh** all the time because you decide to challenge the majority...

Psythe's comment at the end of 14: remember the Inquisition? The means Spaniards used to convert indians? How could Columbus have discovered America when there were already people here? Small pox blankets, hanging indians in 13 in reverance for Jesus and the Apostles. Burning at the stake, smashing babies skulls off the rocks, betting whether or not one blow could kill a man. The Crusades. The witch-trials. Our war against the fundamentalist muslims... It's a dangerous world when it's being run by anyone with religious beliefs (Iraq, Iran, USA, Palestine, Isreal, etc.). There exists a seperation of Church and State (as it applies primarily to education), but that crap (church) keeps bleeding over into politics. A man can't escape his fundamental values, so he brings them with him to office... as if God would have us do his dirty work... it pisses me off that killing another living being is justified if it's done in the name of God, but some states won't allow you to shoot a burglar who's invaded your own house unless it's purely in self-defense (meaning you can only defend your family and yourself from immenant danger, not your possessions - but the line's so blurred that anyone could lie about it and blow the f***ers head clean off anyway)...

Sometimes the best thing I think anyone can do is fake they hold the status quo values.
Yet, Zapata said - "I'd rather die on my feet, than be kept living on my knees."
In the US there's no reason to fake. If someone doesn't like x,y,z then they're told to stuff it. In other countries breaking caste might get you killed. We're free, but still constrained by a system. One may argue that it is or isn't a well thought out one.

It's a good thing we're primarily an individualistic type of society. Otherwise my a$$ would have been kicked out a long time ago.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 12:43 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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23. killingtime writes:

B.I. - "It is comical how they bash Christianity but at the same time they are no different. Though they talk about liberation and freedom from "god" etc.., they are still part of some organized system, and are bound to its rules and codes of belief."

Difference - I don't pretend to be a good upstanding Christian who can never falter because (as the shirt says) "Jesus is my Homeboy!". I don't blend or mesh with the majority. I've nothing against them so long as they keep their religious mantra to themselves, but even if not - it's a myth I won't buy.

What could be more real than human nature?
And how does that constitute a "system" if it's totally natural?
You need to investigate man-made systems versus those that're impervious to human influence. There is a difference.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 12:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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24. Terminator writes:

killingtime-- quick question: if what you believe in is the natural laws of life, then why declare yourself a satanist? i am an atheist and sort of follow the same path, except i dont do any rituals, idk if you do or not. i also base my morals and beliefs off of the natural laws. just curious.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 1:09 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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25. Bestial Invasion writes:

Killingtime- And what is LaVeyan Satanism at its core.. A failed attempt at a more modern interpretation of Nietzsche adding in "Satanic" overtones which at its core are rooted in some sort of religious belief. You can not structure atheist philosophy into a belief system. Though we share the same drives, I am not part nor willing to submit myself to a structured belief. You have your Satanic Bible, and in it are rules. You have quoted parts allready.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 1:26 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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26. Bestial Invasion writes:

Terminator- atheist philosophy structured and organized= religion. That is what makes killingtime a Satanist. Totally irrational.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 1:39 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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27. Terminator writes:

Bestial Invasion-- not necessarily. everyone has some structure to their belief systems, whether it is published or not. and atheism is a religion.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 1:50 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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28. psythe writes:

There is a difference in worshipping what something represents and believing that that something exists. Whilst Christians both worship God and believe that God (and Satan) exists as a metabiological creature, Satanists worship what Satan represents, but realise that the 'creature' is really just a metaphorical allusion in the world's best selling novel. They don't actually believe that he exists. Well, the true Satanists, anyway. There's always your crazy fundamentalists who try to invoke the spirits into themselves to gain powers unknown and all that sh**. But let's face it - they're silly. In my opinion, the true Satanist does NOT believe in the necessity of/for or the relevance, nor 'power' of "rituals". That stuff's for the nutcases who don't get the "satan is a metaphor" bit. The worshipping of Satan by Satanists IS worshipping what he represents - the difference is in the interpretation of what he represents (as pointed out quite nicely by Terminator in post 19). Whilst Christianity has come to worshipping God, Satanists continue to worship the values the religion is founded on, and not some mythical metaphysical being.

Bestial Invasion doesn't know what he's talking about, however Bertrand Russel no doubt had every idea. Bestial, I suggest you learn what it takes to constitute a religious tradition; I'll give you a BRIEF heads-up: you need a Sacred Script/s, Holy Teacher/s, a Sacred Site/s, a certain amount of ligit, official followers (note, most athiests only call themselves athiests because they have no idea what they really are except that they don't like Christianity and it's variants), etc etc etc etc.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 3:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
evilcheeba's avatar

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29. evilcheeba writes:

psythe nailed it on the head. Just because have a belief or live by a certain code does not make it a religion. I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools until HS, church every Sunday, the whole nine yards. As I've grown older and wiser I've found that the organized portion of the Catholic church does not agree with me. I don't feel I have to attend a service to confirm my beliefs (or disbeliefs as the case is now). I hold more of an agnostic belief now, I believe what can be proved, and there is no possible way to prove or disprove the existance of a "God". Same goes for Satan or any other spirit. At the same time I will never disrespect someone elses beliefs, it really is none of my business what faith a person is, until it is thrown in my face. At which time I reserve the right to tell them they can take their religion and shove it. Having an intellegent conversation about different religions and beliefs is a totally different story. I'm actually surprised by the maturity in this particular thread, most of the time discussions such as this break down into name calling. I'm glad that we have a few informed and mature people able to discuss the different faiths without belittling one or the other. This site is moving on up in my opinion.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 4:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
30. Bestial Invasion writes:

Psythe, obviously you cannot comprehend what I have said. Your thoughts are jaded by Christian influence and other long accepted religious systems. Tradition, Sacred Scripts, Teachers, etc.. are by no means what constitutes a religion. Such things were really put in to use by the Jews(yes some elements existed before hand in various relgions, but not all cohesively together), then obviously carried over to Christianity and all of the other major world religions that have spawned thereafter...Yes your list is what is socially acceptable to what makes a relgion, then of course that is only if you are adhereing to the Judeo-Christian tradition. Organized and structured beliefs supercede any influence Christianity has left upon the minds of society, and what is ultimately the roots of religion. You are being hit by a double bladed axe here, because not only is Satanism structured and organized philosophical beliefs, which is what really constitutes a religion, but it is also under the influence of Judeo-Christian tradition because it follows your socially acceptable elements of what makes a religion. You people just kill me with your thoughts which are obscured by the influence of religion. Think outside of the box. And to who ever said Atheism is a religion, that is the most absurd statement that I have ever heard. Atheism is thought completely free of religious influence. This way of thinking as well as acknowledging your instincts and drives is in no way creating a structured belief system. I am not the one who knows what I am talking about?, hah, At least I can say I am the only one here who seems to have a good grasp and making my thoughts devoiod of any outside influence!

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 6:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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31. psythe writes:

You're arguing that Satanism is a religion because it has "structured and organised" beliefs? And I'm arguing that Satanism is a religion because it has a Sacred text (Unholy Bible), Sacred Teachers (LeVay, Crowley, etc), Sacred sites (ie the "Churches" of Satan, and certain geographical locations...), a bunch of official members, and so on. I would also argue that these sacred scriptures, teachers, sites and members are what create the structure of the organisation in the first place. In essence we agree that Satanism is a religion, but are bickering over the small details of why.

As for me adhering to Judeo-Christianity, I studied religion in school; we studied Buddhism and Hinduism, going out of our way to avoid Christianity, it's variants, Judaism, and Islam. I go out of my way to avoid practicing any Judeo-Christian practices (don't go to Church, refuse to get married, f*** around with women even though we aren't dating, much less married, don't believe polygamy is a sin, nor "blasphemy" etc etc etc). In fact, I'm closer to being a neo-hippy, if you will, than anything else; what I DO believe in is free love, nature and whatever feels good, basically. To the Void with your laws and your commandments. Interesting to read up on, and in many circumstances a healthy way to live life, but not really for me, thanks.

And of course Satanism is under the influence of Jedo-Christianity - it is, after all, named for a creature in the Christian Bible! One would have to be exquisitely stupid not to realise that Satanism is, like many religions, an offshoot of Christianity. It's just an opposing, contradicting offshoot, that's all.

Oh, and evilcheeba - this site IS excellent, once you learn to ignore all the idiot one-time posters. The more you come, the more you'll recognise certain names, and the more you'll be able to sift through the crap and just chat with the people you KNOW are gonna be able to give you an informed opinion on this or that. I've seen you post here before; don't stop coming :P

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 7:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
32. Terminator writes:

Bestial Invasion-- first of all, the jews were not the first ones to use skripts, traditions, teachers, etc. the egyptians and sumerians were. the christians are said to have gotten many of their rituals and practices from the egyptians. though obviously they didnt copy the egyptians exactly, but the egyptians had a much bigger influence than did the jews. back then, the jews were an extreme minority. many were slaves or peasants that didnt get much acknowlegement compared to the larger, more established religions at that time (mainly because most were polytheistic).

secondly-- religion defined is "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." thus proving that atheism is a religious form. besides, not everyone in a particular religion believes in the same exact thing. that is why there are so many sects of christianity and isam. True atheists dont live their lives by a certain book, but generally share the same concepts about religion - the common ground being that we dont believe in god etc etc.

lastly-- There are atheist organizations out there. religion at its core is a moral guide--that has been taken out of context over the years into something more than the text, but rather, mythical places and characters controlling everything we do to try and achieve a successful migration to the promise land upon death. i find that to be garbage, but thats my opinion. the point that im trying to make to you, B.I., is that i dont live my life through one of the big religions, but i have read about them and their history out of pure interest. my thoughts are warped because i like to read about history,(which by the way, religion has always been a critical factor in)? no, you just sound ignorant.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 7:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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33. psythe writes:

I find myself agreeing with you, Terminator.

Christianity is founded on almost every other religion ever - paganism, greek mythology, egyptian mythology, Judaism, and I can't be bothered naming all the other ones. For example, Baphomet, pagan god of sexual vitality and whatnot, has become the typical symbol for the Devil. Horns, goat's legs, etc etc. It is at once astounding and terrifying that people continue to believe so fiercely in a religion that is merely a mish-mash of all the other religions.

Where did you get your definition of religion from? Just curious. I'd put it out there that almost every source would probably have a slightly differing view as to what exactly constitutes a religious tradition, some even differing profoundly. I take mine from my studies, both through my school years, and independantly at libraries and over the net. Thus I don't really have a quote, just an idea of what, to me, seperates the belief systems and such (you know, like all that new age crap...) and the religious traditions (Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, etc etc).

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 7:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
34. Terminator writes:

i got my quote from dictionary.com. there were 6 definitions there, i just chose the one that best supported my argument. lol.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 8:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

35. psythe writes:

hahahah, well, can't argue that you're not logical, then :P

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 8:44 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
36. Bestial Invasion writes:

Terminator, I never stated the Jews were the first people to use scripts, teachers, etc., and made it quite clear they were in existence in other religions pre-dating the Jews. Aside from that, it is irrelevant to your arguement and conclusion. Where would you get an idea that your thoughts are warped because you like to read history? Did I ever state anything about religion not being a critical factor in history? No. It is safe to say that the 2 major forces behind every conflict and major event in history were relgion, and the other being money. So we have established that you are not a Christian, however your problem still lies in the way in which you hold your ideas. Arguing that atheism is a religion is like f ucking for virginity, it simply can not be done. Religion is the antithesis of everything that atheist THOUGHT (a way of thinking is not a set of beliefs!) stands for. I sound ignorant.. well that is expected when one can not comprehend what is being said and when you are not operating at the same elevated level of thought as myself. Quite clearly you have never touched one philosophy book in your life reguarding topics of our debate here. To say the very least, I began reading such subjects fairly early in my teen years, and had read all of the works of Nietzsche in etirety by the time I had graduated high school. My education continued further to the point where I am at now, grad school. So a little bit of friendly advice, do not pass judgement because you are inapt in comprehending the written english language. If you were well read in atheist philosophy you would agree to everything I have stated in reguards to yourself. For beginers why dont you pick up yourself a copy of Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals, and Beyond Good And Evil. Both are relatively short and an easy read. You may then catch a glimpse of my way of thinking, if not, they are still great reads.

psythe, Thanks for clearing up your position, and as you said, at least we can agree on the main issue that was at hand, though we disagree on the more small details reguarding it. That is something that would make for a great future debate, but I'm going to leave it at that for the time being,because quite honestly, I do not have the time to be on here several times a day. At the least I have to say I appreciate the intelligent debate/discussion. If this was with Christians, it would be total chaos.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 10:28 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
37. Terminator writes:

B.I.-- make no mistake, i am not some half-witted high school reject just trying to babble on about nothing and piss you off. i was a civilizations major. i have read portions of Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals and i have read Beyond Good and Evil by Friedrich Nietzsche. they are both very interesting reads. though my passion lies more in ancient warfare and ancient technology, i have read up on many religions (christianity, islam, judeaism, and various polytheistic religions). my prime area of interest is with the more ancient philosiphers i.e. socrotes, aristotle you know the bunch. you have proven your point and i do understand your position. and for what its worth, i dont think that you are ignorant anymore, but i still stand by my previous comments/ opinions. and yes, i do know where you are coming from, i am just trying to voice my opinion about the matter. just know, i respect your opinion and am in no way trying to disrespect you. im just trying to debate and maybe even learn something new.

# Aug 25, 2006 @ 12:31 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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38. psythe writes:

awwww....group hug :P

# Aug 25, 2006 @ 4:59 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
39. 8. isolate corpses to prevent spread of disease writes:

"Jesus spoke true words of wisdom,"let the children come to me..."" - Deathspell Omega 2004
"Darkness is as darkness does" - James Brown (Beat the Devil)
"It's not that I don't care,I just don;t care if others care" - me yesterday

# Sep 10, 2006 @ 10:28 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

Supporter

40. BLACKDOG writes:

Gotta love diversity.

# Sep 10, 2006 @ 7:31 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address

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