"some music was meant to stay underground..."

Draiman Wants To Wipe Out Hezbollah

Megan O'Toole of ChartAttack.com reports:

DISTURBED frontman David Draiman is an Israeli. His brother is in Jerusalem, and he has family in Haifa as well. One friend has been killed, another injured, and his frustration with the conflict between Israel and Lebanon is clear. So, too, is his allegiance.

"If Lebanon can't get rid of the Hezbollah threat, Israel is forced to do what it must. I don't think you'll see another nation in history that's had to deal with what Israel has had to deal with... There's only so far you can be pushed. Ultimately, [Hezbollah] committed an act of war: they crossed the border and kidnapped soldiers.

"I think we should wipe them all out — every terrorist, every war-mongering piece of garbage. We should congregate them all on one island and nuke it. A line must be drawn."

But Draiman's only telling me this because I asked. He's not the type of singer to stand on stage and deliver a monologue encapsulating his political opinions, especially on such a sensitive matter.

"I'm not there to preach," he says. "I'm not there to give people a reason to feel downtrodden.

"If people delve deep enough [into the music], the meaning is there for them to find."

Source: Blabbermouth

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100 Comments on "Draiman Wants To Wipe Out Hezbollah"

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kev74d's avatar

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1. kev74d writes:

I have a new found respect for Draiman. I still dont like the band though. I agree with what he says in the article. "A line must be drawn." I wish Isreal the best of luck in their battle. Terrorism must die.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 11:50 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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2. BrianSD writes:

Well said.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 1:30 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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3. PorcupineTree writes:

^ you said it all dude. Hopefully this conflict can be over as soon as possible.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 1:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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4. Scorched_Earth writes:

It does need to stop-but sorry-Isreal needs to end its terrorist tactics too. Its not ok to oppress people just because you've been oppressed. Its just not that simple. In the West we seem to always feel that whatever Isreal chooses to do is justified-its not. They have taken this all too far. They even PURPOSELY attacked UN Soldiers.

If we're just going to give a 'kill anyone you want' card to any who experienced European oppression then the Gypsys and Africans need to get the right to kill anything they want to. Its time to call a spade a spade.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 1:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
5. Spirit of the elder gods writes:

If it were so easy to end terrorism don't you think someone would have done it already.For every one terrorist Israel kills they are going to create two more.Israel is going to reap what it's sown for sure.I agree lets kill terrorists but unless you are talking about genocide of the entire middle east then sorry it's the wrong method there always will be terrorism and terrorists, bombing a minority is only going to breed the next generation of suicide bombers etc besides not every middle-eastern IS a terrorist.The pictures of burnt and recent aputeed children proves this.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 2:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
6. rising end writes:

not to offend any arabs around the world. but if you look at the history of nations in the middle east, it is in the ir nature to destroy each other. when only tribes were around, they killed each other, when foreigners came they killed them, no matter how you look at it they are always killing other nations or themselves (an example is violence between muslim sects). so in my opinion there will never be peace in the middle east. i agrre with post 5, even if israel is able to wipe out hezbollah, the surviving relatives of any of the bystanders killed in lebanon will probably take up arms against them creating another generation of militants, not to mention other arabs who will see thes as an excuse to attack israelis. is a never ending cycle, but either way, good luck israel or anyone that wishes to fight any terrorist militants in the world.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 5:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
7. rulin kmadd writes:

I'd say turn the whole fukkin region into radioactive glass
organized religion goes hand in hand with humanity's cancer.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 6:36 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
8. KORNDOGG writes:

RULIN WHAT THE f*** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, SHUT UP IF YOU HAVE NUTTIN SMART TO SAY!
ANYWAY, DRAIMAN IS RIGHT !!!!!!!!

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 6:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
RememberMetal?'s avatar

Writer/Reviewer

9. RememberMetal? writes:

Korndogg
Rulin means if we dropped large numbers of atomic bombs on the region the sand would be superheated into "atomic glass"....Glass being made from sand...

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 7:37 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
10. rulin kmadd writes:

ugh no you little kid rock wanabee failed abortion.
That stupid region has been humanity's downfall for aeons.
Keep reading your bible and enjoy your Judeochristiansanity
propaganda nu metal band imbecile.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 7:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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11. rulin kmadd writes:

that comment was meant for korndork RM.

# Jul 29, 2006 @ 7:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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12. lorlor writes:

I agree with you Kmadd. Religion = cancer. And if they are so ignorant to die for it, then let them kill eachother I say. Just keep it over there and dont bring that cr*ap over here! And I also agree with the atomic glass idea!

# Aug 6, 2006 @ 10:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
13. CrawfordTexasJingoJango writes:

I wish David Draiman would shut the f*** up. Why are you fa**ots still listening to his sh**ty band? What a bunch of ex-jock, no-talent f***ing retards. You know what I want to do? I want to drop a bomb of my own on D. Draiman's head. A big, fat, sloppy, jizz-bomb. Then I'll slap his face with my c*** until I get tired of hearing him cry. Then I'll bend him over and shove his face into a f***ing wood chipper while I butt-bang his mother.

# Aug 6, 2006 @ 11:48 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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14. BLACKDOG writes:

CRAWFORD YOU ARE ONE STRANGE DUDE !

In any event I agree with Draiman.Something need's to be done about terroism ounce and for all.I live in a potential strike zone so obviously I'm concerned to say the least.The difference is I mean all terrorism and it's practitioner's that includes the KKK and these Neo Nazi fags.

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 12:00 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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15. BLACKDOG writes:

Whoop's meant TERRORISM.

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 12:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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16. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

David, I never bought an album. A few songs on iTunes is as far as I got. Now I'm buy everything in your catalog. Ignore the hippies and the other morons who think that killing terrorist scumbags leads to more terrorists. If Israel is sucessful here, even something as stupid as fundamentalist muslim will think twice about provoking them again. If ONLY the US still had such stones, THEN this problem would be solved. Subdue, edcuate, enrich, coexist. Everyone wants to skip the first step because it takes will and balls.

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 5:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
kev74d's avatar

Member

17. kev74d writes:

I dont care what country you are from, if you participate in terrorist acts, you must be destroyed. Just my opinion though. I enjoy fighting terrorists. Crank the BLACK LABEL SOCIETY and let the good times roll. I would like to hope that Israel is doing the right thing. If not, then one day we may drive over to Israel and knock on some doors. Until then, drive on Israel. BLEED BLACK LABEL!!!!!!!!

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 7:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
18. Diamond Oz writes:

I also agree with Draiman. Bollocks to muslim extremists.

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 8:05 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
19. dave mustain writes:

guys r u insane!!!!??!...u just c the israelian point of veiw,israel controls the american media!..look around u!! u r idiots just like ur presedent!..look at the history,,israeli ppl came to palestine in 1948 they were in eroupe,and briten kicked them to palestine,there r alot of desert land in america let the israeli ppl make thier country on it,would u accept it!??!..c the other media channels! u`ll find the truth ur silly ppl!

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 9:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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20. Diamond Oz writes:

My president? I'm English mate. I got a prime minister that's just as useless lol. And don't call me an idiot I'm well aware of the history. I'm just sick of walking down my street and having people that have been in my country for less than two years telling me that I'm gonna bow down to the black flag of Islam. My family came to England from Ireland years ago and were discriminated against of course but they loved England all the same. I don't really care what people believe in, I just don't like people threatening me with their beliefs. The same goes for Christians, Satanists, Hindus and anyone else that tries it.

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 9:35 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

21. psythe writes:

hear, hear. That's why I love Buddhism so much. Buddhists don't oppress their beliefs onto others like basically every other religion, ever.

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 9:55 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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22. BLACKDOG writes:

EXACTLY !!!!!!!!

I'm sure anyone above the age of 20 know's the history.This being the case MUSTAINE IMPOSTER WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT !!!!!!!

# Aug 7, 2006 @ 11:54 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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23. Terminator writes:

how many will have to die for those two soldiers? and you so called history buffs cant just limit the endless war to just the middle east. war and genocide has always been a part of human nature and history----EVERYWHERE. and unfortunately it always will be, because our basic instincts of survival besides reproducing, is eliminating all threats. just something to chew on.

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 3:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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24. Diamond Oz writes:

Fair point. I don't see anything improving anytime soon.

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 8:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
25. Casual fan gone hardcore writes:

Er..Mustain...how can you have the gall to call people idiots when you can't spell, capitalize, or even use whole words? Secondly - get a history book. There has been a 'Palestine' in 4000 years. The 'Palestinians' are largely the decendants of Syrian exiles, not wanted by or legally admitted into any of the surrounding countries. The Hajs SOLD land to the nacent Israeli governement in the early 50s because their people were nomadic, and the Hajs (and the people) figured one patch of sand is as good as the next. Then the Israelis developed and irrigated it - and suddenly it's "You stole the ancestral land of my forefathers Jewish pig-dogs! Jiiiiiiiihaaaaad!". Hmmmmmm.

Terminator - how many people have to die for those two soldiers? Are you really so near-sighted that you think it's 'just' about two soldiers? How many have to die? ALL of them. Every terrorist scumbag and every sympathizer. ALL OF THEM.

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 11:45 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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26. Casual Fan gone Hardcore writes:

That's "hasn't". There hasn't been a Palestine in some 4000 years.

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 11:46 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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27. dave mustain writes:

Casual Fan gone man,if u know about history u should know the history of jews!..arabs were in palestine b4 jews,and btw palestinian ppl is not from syria they r from an island called creat!..and when we used our ISLAM we ruled eroup,we gave u the 1st step of cevelization!..or u didn`t read about the mid-ages!?..jews have cevelization,take a look in the history,give me one building,one book,one thing they did exept betraying and being so mean!!..huh!! the israeli occupation is killing normal ppl,bin ladden is not an islamic example,he is using the religon for bad things,as same as popes in the mid-ages!..but not bin ladden nor popes represent christianity and islam!..the zionest lobby is controling ur media,notions,and ur points of view!..the truth is clear,just search well...

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 10:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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28. dave mustain writes:

and one more thing,AMERICA gave bin ladden(the head of terrorisim) wepones in the past to fight taleban`s system!..hehe,and after that america says: oooh he is a terrorest!...man just WAKE UP,i`m not asking anyone for help,we`ll free OUR land (palestine) by our own!...and remember that,its just a time matter friend...heh,i thought it was just about metal,its my point of view! t.c guys

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 10:16 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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29. dave mustain writes:

and we didn`t stole anth,palestine is exist b4 the prophit abraham in about 1000 year..what r u talking about!..look at jew`s religon,GOD eats fish!?!?GOD f*** women!..jews can kill,steel,rape and betray any GOYEEM..and goyeem means anyone who is not jew,and they said that goyeems r animals god created them in a human shap...f*** SUCH Religon!!

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 10:21 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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30. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Mustain-Achmed-Mohammed said of Jews:

>;>;take a look in the history,give me one building,one book,one thing they did<;<;

In response I offer the following SAMPLE of Nobel Prize winners:

Literature

1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer
2002 - Imre Kertesz
2005 - Harold Pinter

World Peace

1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
1995 - Joseph Rotblat

Chemistry

1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1972 - C.B. Anfinsen
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Ronald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Herbert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
1998 - Walter Kohn
2000 - Alan J. Heeger
2004 - Irwin Rose
2004 - Avram Hershko
2004 - Aaron Ciechanover

Economics

1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1973 - Wassily Leontief
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 Rober Fogel
1994 - John Harsanyi
1994 - Reinhard Selten
1997 - Robert Merton
1997 - Myron Scholes
2001 - George Akerlof
2001 - Joseph Stiglitz
2002 - Daniel Kahneman
2005 - Robert J. Aumann

Medicine

1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - David Baltimore
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Rosalyn Sussman Yalow
1977 - Andrew V. Schally
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1994 - Martin Rodbell
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1997 - Stanley B. Prusiner
1998 - Robert F. Furchgott
2000 - Eric R. Kandel
2002 - Sydney Brenner
2002 - Robert H. Horvitz

Physics

1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1945 - Wolfgang Pauli
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1958 - Il'ja Mikhailovich
1958 - Igor Yevgenyevich
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1963 - Eugene P. Wigner
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1967 - Hans Albrecht Bethe
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1972 - Leon N. Cooper
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1992 - Georges Charpak
1995 - Martin Perl
1995 - Frederick Reines
1996 - David M. Lee
1996 - Douglas D. Osheroff
1997 - Claude Cohen-Tannoudji
2000 - Zhores I. Alferov
2003 - Vitaly Ginsburg
2003 - Alexei Abrikosov
2004 - David Gross
2004 - H. David Politzer
2005 - Roy Glauber

By comparison, there are 7, yes SEVEN Arab Nobel prize winners. That's instances of world-changing achievements from a population of 12 million people - compared to 7 such achievements from 1.4 BILLION Muslims. The medical Nobel laureates alone have saved a thousand times more lives than those lost on both sides of all the wars Israel has ever had to fight.

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 10:53 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
31. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Oh, and 'Goyim' does mean "non-Jewish", but that's all. It is equivalent to the Japanese "gaijin" or English "foreigner".

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 10:53 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
32. Diamond Oz writes:

f*** me that's a big list!

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 10:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
BLACKDOG's avatar

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33. BLACKDOG writes:

OH YEAH !

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 11:29 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

34. psythe writes:

yeah, I sure as hell wouldn't have bothered making all those names up... hahah, just kidding. If you ask me, we should go back to Gondwana. If you see what I mean.

# Aug 8, 2006 @ 11:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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35. CrawfordTexasJingoJango writes:

That's funny that David Draiman wants to wipe out Hezbollah because I want to wipe out David Draiman.

# Aug 9, 2006 @ 1:35 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
36. dave mustain writes:

i`m talking about civelization!..not about nobel prize,u have no cevilization man,look at how was the ppl looking at u!?..shakespear discribed jews as mean and misrable ppl,not bcoz hez a muslim,ofcourse not,but bcoz he saw the fact of U!!..we have cevilization in syria,egypt,spain,turky,and many places,what do u have eccept the fake things u talk about,nth touchable man!..nobel prize dosen`t mean anth! i have nth to say,but ITS JUST ABOUT TIME,u myt change the history for a while,but the truth is clear,palestine is an islamic arabian country! and we will lebirate it sooner or later,u will follow the anti-christ,and we will kill u by following jesus!..wait and u`ll c!..

# Aug 9, 2006 @ 8:51 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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37. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Well...bring it on Dave. You and your kind of Muslim are pretty much going to doom the lot of you if the ones with a desire to live and prosper don't do something about you. You're not a Mustain, you're just a stain.

Oh, and one of those seven Arab Nobel Prize winners was Yasser Arafat - a terrorist, so you're down to six. That 6 to 169 - you have some catching up to do. Oh, and if Nobel prizes don't mean anything, then don't use an antibiotics if you get sick; don't get a blood transfusion if you are dying and need blood; and stop using that computer you are so ineptly posting with - they were all invented by Jews.

# Aug 9, 2006 @ 9:45 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
38. Diamond Oz writes:

That's correct. We do have no "Cevilization" because such a word doesn't exist.

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 11:37 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
39. BodomafterBrunch writes:

Dave Mustain just to let you know Babylonians / Assyrians / Summerians where the first civiliziations in the middle east NOT arabs, and don't say they were arabs because Assyrians still exist as minorities in the middle east today, and im one of them!

Arabs occupied the whole middle east and changed everyones religion, ethnicity, and way of life into the islamic way of life, thats what really unites arabs together, Islam. Everyone of those nations had such a lush history and background, but now they are just known as arabs when they were so much more. Any time a singer or politition trys to mention assyrians in Iraq, Saddam Hussian used* to throw them in Jail. This is called Arabization. so don't act like your innocent.

and on topic... Disturbed is a guilty pleasure of mine i must admit, but Draiman is such a f***ing hypocrite!

at first he comdemns the war crying like a baby about iraq and talks sh** about Bush for going in the middle east to fight terrorism, but now when it hits close to home he says to wipe out all terrorists! man give me a break and learn about whats going on before you open your mouth!

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 12:47 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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40. BodomafterBrunch writes:

lol casual fan gone hardcore you tell him!

Dave Mustain's (megadeth's front man) mom is jewish! so how do like that!

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 12:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
41. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Bodom,

That is awesome, nice slap down.

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 6:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
42. Diamond Oz writes:

Nicely done BodomafterBrunch. God I love jews! Mel Brooks 4 life!

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 7:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
43. dave mustain writes:

man,in islam we have to belive in the real jew`s religon!.thats one,
and 2,i`m against zionest not jews!..but now,they created thier religon to b with zionests!..got it!..and btw Babylonians / Assyrians were not jews too,thats my point!..but in the condition that its between jews and arabs,then arabs lived in the middle east b4 jews,...and bodom,u r ryt ,i`m with u,Islam is our belife,not arabization!..but he casual fan began talking about his poor forefathers and history,so i told him that arabs lived b4 jews in the middle east!..hehe,and casual fan,u said that yasser arafat dosen`t deserve to win the nobel prize,its just what i was talking,nobel prize means NOTHING..and u r the real terrorisim,u cudn`t face hezbollah,then u killed civel ppl,hehe shame of u...and u dont allow the ambulance to help the ppl,whoz terrorist!..look at this.."http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E1F96EF4-7AC4-4871-B98F-95D97D74CE6E.htm",
the red cross cant help ppl coz the israeli occupation shoot thier cars!..

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 9:41 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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44. dave mustain writes:

and look what they have did in the holly Palestine " http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/Galleries/G_5/image4.jpg" and this " http://www.aljazeera.net/mritems/Galleries/G_5/image0.jpg"

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 9:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
45. Diamond Oz writes:

Civel? Whoz? belife? religon? I don't understand!

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 11:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
46. BodomafterBrunch writes:

^lol at al-jazera style propaganda !

Israel warns people before firing their missles, and if people don't want to leave those targets it's their fault that they died... i know it's sad that children get involved in this but seeing how their parents are acting you can guess what they want to do when they grow up!

they hide in civilian buildings and shoot from it... using women and children as shields, and they love when israel strikes the building to show that "ohh look the jews are slaughtering us wahh wahh wahh!" for gods sake the guy holding a dead child in his hand was doing all sorts of poses in front of the camera! he had different clothes between photo shoots too!

while Hizbollah are shooting rockets randomly at civilian areas, cowards! Stop using Dave Mustians name in vein and go suck Nasralla's d*** or else you can't after he get's fried...or maybe you'd like that?!

anyways forget this fool Iron maiden, Megadeth, and Motorhead are releasing new albums!this fall is gonna be awesome \m/

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 11:32 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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47. lorlor writes:

All of this is total BS! It is so clear that they have no regard for human life whatsoever. Its like the retard Bloods and Crips. Shooting at eachother, for what? Because one lives on another street and wears BLUE instead of RED. So LAME! Oh, you don't have the same beliefs as me so I must KILL YOU. That is seriously the most ignorant thinking known to man.

# Aug 10, 2006 @ 11:57 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
48. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Lets not forget that the 'Palestinians' have killed dozens of their own kids with the rocket attacks. They just fire the damn things and HOPE they hit Jews.

Secondly, when did I say I was Jewish?

And lastly, lolor, "Oh, you don't have the same beliefs as me so I must KILL YOU." - you just summed up the essence of Islam. THAT is where this starts and ends. It starts with a book that tells 1.4 BILLION people, "you can't allow non-Muslims to live. You must convert, enslave, or kill them, so sayeth Allah". That's the truth, that's it right there. And everyone can shut the hell up if they haven't read the damned thing themselves - go BUY a copy, it's not a secret. And it's not "a few passages". It's not "cherry picking". It's a manual for total war with everyone who doesn't believe the EXACT same thing you do. Find that for me in the Bible. Find it for me in the Torah. Cherry pick, go ahead - FIND IT. You won't. You'll find, "No man enters the Kingdom of Heaven but through Me." in the Bible. But human ass-monkies have taken that to say "convert non-Christians". In the middle ages it was "by force if necessary - oh, and get their land and stuff while you're at it. God says so, yeah - right here, oh, can't read? Well you'll have to take my word for it my son..". That was......CENTURIES AGO! Get the fudge over it. No one alive today was in a Crusade. No one alive today was crusaded upon. As for the Torah...it just says on the subject of belief "Jews don't do this, this, and this. Everyone else is on their own." - if I had to really really oversimplify and boil it down. The Koran is a WHOLE different animal. And until someone finds the lost "Can Live and Play Nice With Other Humans" version, there's gonna be a problem with every a$$ clown that wants to follow it to the letter.
I don't mind that you can't speak or write English well 'Dave' - I mind that you won't own your own religion's doctrines. I mind your bullsh** version of Judaism. But then, when you are only half literate at best, I guess you have to believe what someone else tells you. All of my info you can look up yourself. Try it. Truth can be refreshing - oh, but hate is so much easier.

# Aug 11, 2006 @ 1:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
49. dave mustain writes:

1st isalm dosn`t say so,i think u know that jews lived in the islamic country with thier ryts!..they lived in the same city with my prophit!..u r just talking without knowledg!..but jew`s religon says u can do whatever u want with a non-jew person!...and MY prophit forgave them when they tried to betray him(as jews always do)!..got it?
i wont tell u more,coz the truth is evrywhere,and ya go and get a koran,if u found sth savage against the other ppl! do whatever u want,its not true,at last our koran dosn`t have 386348960914 versions..heh,the time will pass and we`ll c
bye

# Aug 11, 2006 @ 6:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
50. dave mustain writes:

and BODOM...i dont have to say anth to u,coz u r silly,rly..so shut up,and watch out the camera is near,lol

# Aug 11, 2006 @ 6:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
51. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Dave, Dave, you are so easy to spank it just not even funny anymore. "isalm dosn't say so"? Try these passages, straight out of the Koran. Tell me that they aren't in there and I am making them up. And I quote:
2:216 "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."
"9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" –The Immunity
"They that deny our revelations we will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than we shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge." (Sura IV, 56).
V.51: "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who takes them for friends is one of them."
2:191 "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."
IX.34: "O you who believe ! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings of a painful doom."

This was just a random sampling. While you can paw through the Bible to find something to be angry about, and you can try to look through the Torah to find something questionable...you can open the Koran to any random page and find something about killing or enslaving non-Muslims. Religion of Peace....right. I'd go on, but everyone else would get bored.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 3:49 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
52. Diamond Oz writes:

On the contrary I was quite enjoying reading it.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 6:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
53. lorlor writes:

omg, that is whack! And the sickest thing is that millions of ignorant people are so easily persuaded to follow this nonsense! What happened to being your own person and thinking independently? omg. This is the absolute pinnacle of mass brainwashing! It is pathetic! GET OVER IT YOU DAMN RETARDED MUSLIMS! OMG! Like the most recent terrorists that were shut down in the UK. They were BORN in England for crying out loud. Oh what a sad, pathetic life they must had led living in the friggin UK of all places (sense the sarcasm).. So much hate over there, lol. Why couldn't they just go on and lead a normal life for themselves in England? Nooooo, they got brainwashed by this BS and decide they need to blow up some airplanes and kill hundreds of people they have NEVER MET, who they have no idea what their beliefs are..... and these people have never once had an affect on them following ALLAH. It's absolutely G*A*Y and very, very WEAK. Weak, pathetic people is all they are.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 12:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
54. Diamond Oz writes:

Yep. Our police stopped them good! However, me and my entire family were souting at the telly with anger last night when they were trying to defend themselves. "Oh, the police only come to our community when there's a problem!" That's what they're suppossed to do you c***s! They don't go round knocking on everyone's door to see how they are! And all these sad tossers going, "Oh! They can't be responsible because I know them and they're good people!" The exact same thing was said about Ed Gein and Ted Bundy. I get really angry because over here in the UK, the non- white immigrants seem to get treated better than the British themselves. My family has been insulted and threatened before for being Irish but no-one comes running to us. I have never condoned the actions of the IRA and never will but, if a load of Irish immigrants were marching through the streets of London shouting about killing the soldiers, they would have had the sh** kicked out of them by police and rightly so. Whereas, when all the muslims were marching through our streets shouting "Behead those who mock Islam" we just let them get away with it! It's totally stupid! I want to see Northen Ireland returned to the Irish but not by planting nailbombs in shopping centres. And what the f*** is the radical Islamic community's problem with UK and US? I've got nothing against religion, believe in what you want to believe, hell, Charles Manson inspires half of my religious beliefs, but I don't go round killing people.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 1:01 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
55. lorlor writes:

Kind of like the millions of Mexicans marching over here in the US! We want right, we want acceptance! Well, then stop coming here illegally and get a friggin job and pay taxes fu*ckers. Stop sucking up our social security money with your fake social security numbers and stop having 7 kids and living on food stamps illegally!

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 1:09 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
56. Diamond Oz writes:

I hear that! It's not that I'm racist or against immigration, so long as they're actually working and paying taxes and sh**. Gangs are crap too. Getting jumped by a bunch of wankers for being white. It's like someone I know had a mate who works for the local council and he had to go fix a light in a neighboured populated by Asians mainly, and they come up to him in a big f***ing gang and tell him how they're gonna put a bomb in his van and take over the country and sh** and then he notices a park which has got "taliban training camp" sprayed over it. And the council wouldn't do anything about it because they don't wanna "opress the immigrant community." It's complete bullsh**.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 1:19 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
57. Terminator writes:

this is exactly why i hate religion. its all the same--believe it or die, burn, suffer, etc. i just wish one would preach tolerance. i suppose buddhism does but i dont know too much about that. and i can see why extremists on both sides are brainwashed. they have had this stuff pounded into their heads since they could talk, its really not their fault, its all they know. which is sad. Islam schools teach the koran the same way jewish schools teach the hebrew bible--abraisively. the bottom line about religion, any religion, is that it gives one a sense of security, purpose and hope. these traits arent bad until taken out of context--which is what we have in the world today. i believe that the grand meaning of life, as i stated earlier, is reproduction. that is our only purpose, to survive the species, not destroy it. these extremists take the figures of their beliefs and amplify them more than their message, which, ironically enough, most of them preach peace (example: Mohammed, Jesus). yet their names are used as battle cries. why cant we all just get along?

the problem with the illegal mexicans is that we have a limit as to how many of them can come in legally each year, and rightfully so. the list is so long that the wait is almost useless. and besides, being poor in america is a lot better than being poor in mexico. in no way am i defending these a$$holes, there is nothing more that pisses me off then watching these leeches suck away our money. they use our schools (though not very well since most of em cant speak english), they use our hospitals and medical facilities, they take up space in our prisons and waste money when we have to deport them back to mexico. plus all of the drugs that they bring up here waste our police and drug forces time and legislatures money in trying to combat illegal drugs. i say if they want to be citizens they must first be 100% FLUENT in the english language and then they should serve in our military, though we do benefit from their construction labor.

finally all this talk about building a wall around mexico seems kind of pointless, because who would build it? lol.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 1:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
58. lorlor writes:

The minute men are already building a wall. I live in AZ, so I know all too well about this problem. Every day on the news I have to hear about illegals caught by the dozens trying to sneak in. And even worse, is that we have to hear about them dying in the desert! One time a child was found dead in the desert, and the mother admitted leaving the child there because he had died or something. HELLO?? You leave your child in the desert? OMG. And then the priceless act of coming across to have your babies. That is the new trend. They come here, and go into labor, then they get free hospital care and they can claim their kid was born here! Uggh.

# Aug 12, 2006 @ 10:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

59. psythe writes:

For me, the only religion that isn't a form of atheism or agnosticism that is worth even considering believing in is Buddhism. Hinduism comes close second, with the only real downfall being its' deeply entrenched caste system. Other than that, though, our religions are basically a front for mass genocide. What pisses me off the most is when you ask a Christian that's trying to convert you to legitimize the logic of their arguement in favor of the Bible, and what do they do? They quote the bleeding Bible. For pity's sake, you can't justify a theory by using other parts of the same theory! You try that in a debate and you're screwed!

As for illegal immigrants - I don't have an opinion one way or another on that one. You can't just let them all in, but at the same time, to have to resort to illegal immigration, you'd have to be desperate. Or so I would think. Difficult issue.

# Aug 13, 2006 @ 12:21 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
60. VIC*STER writes:

I have so much to say on this subject, yet at the moment I can't seem to find the energy to do it. I would only say that RELIGION WILL BE THE END OF US !!

# Aug 13, 2006 @ 1:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
61. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Terminator, psythe, and VIC*STER (and others),

OK, I do have to add something in defense of religion, and specifically Judaism. I'm not trying to sell anyone on faith here, but you should understand a few truths for your own edification.
1) The Jewish faith does not call for conversion, deny other faiths, or say anything bad will happen to you if you are not Jewish. Don't confuse Israeli politics with the tenants of Judaism. The Israelis aren't telling anyone they have to be Jewish, they are saying you can't live there unless you stop being a rock-throwing, rocket-launching A-hole! Judaism and it's tenants of faith apply to JEWS - no one else is expected to follow, believe, or respect them. If they do, great. If not, you only get in trouble for that if you are Jewish. So, don't put this faith in the same category as others which implicitly (Christianity) or explicitly (Islam) demand everyone follow it.
2) While Christianity does have a long history of prosthelitization and aggressive conversion, Jesus never actually said to do any of that. He said, "No man comes to the Kingdom of Heaven but through Me." If we were to be kind about interpreting how some have taken that, we could say, "OK, you are trying to convert me because you like me and want me to go to Heaven instead of burn in Hell for all eternity." Those are the folks with good intentions. You can call them annoying perhaps, but not evil.

Lastly, religion as a whole, has very certainly saved and/or improved many more lives than it has cost....with the possible exception of Islam. The works done by charity in the name of religion probably do balance out or exceed the lives lost through religiously motivated stupidity. I can't prove that, but I think it must be true when you look at all the numbers. The fact is, if people read and understood the tenants of their own faiths themselves and lived them (again, I have except Islam) people would be better to each other, and happier over all. Don't buy that? ...check out the 10 Commandments or the Eightfold Path of Peace. Tell me folks living those doctrines would end up evil to each other.

# Aug 13, 2006 @ 6:44 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

62. psythe writes:

As much as Religious Affiliates have undoubtedly saved many lives by bringing education, literacy, medical knowledge, etc etc to the people of the Earth, I can't help but cringe at the incredible loss of culture that this unintentional bigotism has consequented. In many ways, our society is the lesser when compared to the so-called "primitive" cultures of the world. We have done an immense amount of possibly irrepairable damage to not only our own lands, but those of others. The argument here is that perhaps we anglo-saxans and christians and what-have-you SHOULDN'T have taken it upon ourselves to apprise everyone else of the benefits of a world living our way. Perhaps those missionaries should have stayed at home and minded their own business. But who can know? Perhaps also the outcome would only have been worse. Who can know.

As for Judaism, I was in no way intentionally putting the faith on the same level as the other two (Christianity and Islam) major faiths. I have yet to have a Jew hand me a flier in the mall and tell me to come along to their Sunday service. I have also yet to see a Jew crusade, or kill, or forcefully demand the conversion of my faith or termination of my life, or any. So I have a lot of respect for Jews. I don't however, have much respect for their religious tradition, however. There is very little difference, for me, between Judaism, Islam, and Christianity, when you get down to the written word of it; all hold that there is ONE transcendant being, who created everything and continues to influence everything. They all envision this deity as an all-knowing, all-powerful, gigantic male Human. And they all have their "ten commandments", between which there is little difference; don't steal, don't kill, don't have sex with your mother, etc etc". Now, this is all fine and dandy. Great. I don't have any problem with any of that. Except that it in almost exactly no way relates to anything in which I believe. The ONLY thing that I believe in is the underlying morals, ethics and/or virtues which were probably the basis for the foundation of the religion in the first place. Don't kill people. I believe in that. I don't believe that you have to believe in a "God", or an "Allah", or an anyone to believe that you shouldn't kill people. Thus I don't see why people feel the need to beleve in all the rest of the stuff the Bible, or the Torah, or the Koran (can't remember the proper spelling for this Holy Novel) says, such as that Noah lived for six hundred years. Or that Noah indeed lived at all. None of that is important or relevant to anything to me. Thus my lack of faith. And thus my love of Buddhism, which is ENTIRELY based around not hurting others. Oh, sure there's all this enlightenment stuff, but that's just a front for getting tourists to visit their temples and give them some food :P

sorry guys - rant complete.

# Aug 13, 2006 @ 7:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
63. Terminator writes:

I suppose that i should also clearify my statements also. I was in no way denouncing the morals at the core of these three religions. I do believe that religion can provide a positive foundation and guide for one to live a fullfilled life. but, as psythe argued, even with all of the benefits given by religious organizations, there is still a tremendous cost. I was attacking the extremists whos interperatations stretch beyond their faith. I was also attacking those who use religion as a sheild for their actions and an excuse for further commencing those and similar negative actions (suicide bombing, genocide, even check forgery). when i look at the bible or other religious text, i see an overall positive message (though sometimes very unfair and very brutal), and the figures presented in those texts are nothing more than metaphors to support the message "be the best person that you can be" and "every action has a consequence". obviously these are my personal beliefs and in no way can i prove them. that is why they call it faith, because there is no hard evidence.

I forget who said this but to close "even if there were no god, man would create one"

# Aug 13, 2006 @ 7:11 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
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64. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Wow, excellent posts guys and gals. I'll say a few more things, then I have a real important question for Dave, if he's still listening.

On the subject of cultural corruption or destruction, I could not agree more. Missionary Christianity has undoubtedly suppressed or killed a host of other cultures that may well have been superior in many ways. There are two mitigating factors (if indeed one can mitigate such a thing). They are: 1) The intent to preserve human souls. For those missionaries who left on actual missions of mercy, I can't fault or blame them if a culture was seduced away from it's roots in favor of survival. 2) The simultaneous death of ignorance along with culture. For every great culture that was irrepairably harmed, two came to the light (of modern education and medicine, etc.) from great darkness. These are the cultures that treated their women and girls as sub-human, warred on their neighbors for equally stupid reasons as the ones being discussed now, and a host of other practices that one must *objectively* find horrifying - not simply "different". Now, I know that in todays world of moral equivalency and ethical relativism some find this difficult, but I do not.

For the sake of accuracy I will take issue with the statement that Judiaism "holds that there is ONE transcendant being...giganitc human male". This is in fact not correct. The original Hebrew Commandments as first presented in the Torah are very plain on this subject - my comments in parentheses.
"Hear O Israel" (I'm talking to you, Jews, not anyone else - they can do their own thing) "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of slavery in Egypt to be your God. Thou Shalt have no other gods before Me" (there is no claim here that He is the only god, only that for Jews, HE is their God, and THEY may worship no others. In fact, this statement validates that other gods exist! It's just that Jews may not worship them). This is a rather important, and often totally overlooked point. Since the Christian Commandments are derived directly from the Hebrew ones...this has vast implications that the Church would no doubt rather that people forgot...

In Judaism, God is referred to as male consistently, that is true - but in fact He is not visualized at all. There are a great many passages that anthropomorphize Him ("and His hand stretched forth", etc.) but Jews specifically do not (and are prohibited from) making an image of the Lord to worship (see the rest of the Commandments). Minor point, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

My last polite disagreement with Psythe will be on the subject of "which came first", the Commandments or the "underlying morals which were the basis for religion in the first place." This is in reverse order, Psythe. Whether we like to think of ourselves this way or not, humans are animals. We have no inherent morals or ethics except those which help us survive. Put in proximity to other competing animals of the same type, these "natural commandments" would be something on the order of, "I am the Lord. You shall have no food before Me. I shalt kill you if you try. I shalt steal from you if you have something I want. I shalt take your wife, your home, and whatever else I'm strong enough to grab away from you. You shalt go piss off if you don't like it. So sayeth Me."

After several tens of thousands years of this, and after written language developed and took hold as a good idea, someone (Moses or a clever bunch of rabbis) got the idea (or the Divine Inspiration if you are faithful) to decide that there must be a few rules, which, if adhereed to because there was a real good reason to listen to them, would lead to greater peace and stability for everyone (well, the Jews anyway, who were in total chaos at the time). Kaboom! Instant Rules From God - Obey or Suffer! And...on the whole, they do improve human life immesurably. They also get much more respect when considered commands from an all-powerful being, rather than good ideas from some schmoe in a bathrobe who's been eating funny cacti on a mountain for a week.

What is interesting is that virtually all religious across the world have a similar list, about as long, that say almost all the same things. Now....that by itself argues for a Divine and loving presence in many people's minds. So, if you are faithful, the Commandments (or similar, such as Buddhism's Eightfold Path) FORM the underpinnings of all human law, and not the other way around.

Now, that question I promised.

Dave, as a Muslim, do you see a way that Muslims could live in peace with non-Muslims, including Jews? If so, what does that way look like?

# Aug 15, 2006 @ 10:53 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
OpethSuck!!!'s avatar

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65. OpethSuck!!! writes:

Damn, these got really long towards the end and there's no f***ing way that I'd read all that sh**! lol

# Aug 15, 2006 @ 11:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
66. Spirit of the elder gods writes:

^^ditto^^lol

# Aug 15, 2006 @ 2:49 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
67. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

(Yeah, I know, I'll try to keep them shorter. Cruise back through them when yoiu have time though, interesting stuff there being posted by everyone)
Terminator - you're absolutely right, it is when those core beliefs become corrupted by hate that religion, or more accurately, clerics, become poisonous. In the case of Islam, it is the preachers who have taught their people to love their hate more than they love their children that are the primary problem. How do you strap a bomb to your child and tell him to go out an die, and remain human? These 'holy men' and their ideology need to die in order that the rest might find a way to live in peace.

# Aug 15, 2006 @ 3:12 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
68. lorlor writes:

dude, you guys have WAAAY too much time on your hands to be writing these long as*s posts about religion and crap..

# Aug 15, 2006 @ 11:06 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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69. psythe writes:

I didn't have the time to read everythng, I've got class in a minute, but...

firstly, great posts, everyone. I love it when people on this site contribute their opinions in a literate, justified manor. And most of us here have done that, and made some excellent points and arguments. So pat yourself on your back :P

Just a quick one this time, in regards to Casual's disagreement with my "underlying morals" postulation - Whether the morals came first, or the Commandments came first (as you suggested), I would argue that the morals are still the basis of the commandments, and thus still the basis of the religion, as I was arguing back in post 62. Just a slight disagreement there. I'll come back after class and see if I can find anything else to say on the subject.

Keep up the good work, guys. Cheers.

# Aug 15, 2006 @ 11:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
70. Terminator writes:

Casual--
Q: How do you strap a bomb to your child and tell him to go out an die, and remain human?

A: when upon death, reward is recieved

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 2:00 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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71. psythe writes:

It is not a natural love that dictates a parent to order the ceasation of their child's life. In fact, it goes completely against the natural love a parent has for it's child.

The Buddhists have a mantra; "God did not create man - man created God". For the most part, I believe that to be true.

As for Judaism, I'm obviously less-read in it than in Christianity, coming from a largely Christian background. So I may be wrong about them visualising a gigantic Human male, but that is really the lesser issue in the point I was making. Which was that the "One true God" (for them) of Christianity, Islam and Judaism are, almost unexceptionally, the same God. In fact, across the religions, there really isn't all that much difference at all, once you get rid of all the crap. Probably the main difference is the view on Jesus - powerful prophet or son of God? There are, of course, your minor discrepancies, but when you boil down to the core of it all...Hell, if you follow one, you pretty much follow them all.

Ok, I'm generalising a little bit, I know. But there IS truth there. As for the Church rathering people forgot - there's a LOT of things they'd rather we all forgot. In the words of some rapper, "It's a dirty game, y'all".

And now, I have essays to write... pity me :P

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 2:43 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
72. Terminator writes:

to further expand upon your above point: those three main religions often acknowolege their God to be the same God, if that makes sense? all of those religions also acknowolege the same profits, the main debate is the heirarchy of which profit is more important. thats all from me on this debate, my brains about to explode.

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 2:47 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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73. psythe writes:

lol, by profits, do you mean prophets? because profit is the capital gain you make from selling something - or in the Church's case, pretending the Vatican doesn't have fifty billion trillion dollars worth of assets and playing the poor card to stinge a coupla goldies off the congregation...

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 2:55 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
74. Terminator writes:

good catch, my bad lol. and, goddammit, i have another point now, thanks a lot psythe. actually f*** it im done.

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 3:01 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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75. psythe writes:

lol quit while you're ahead :P what happened to Casual? Wouldn't mind seeing what ol' Dave has to say in response to that question of Casuals', either. Good question.

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 3:12 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

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76. psythe writes:

Actually, I have a question about Judaism - I've heard that if your mother is Jewish, then you, by default, are Jewish, too. Is this always necessarily the case? Is their some sort of initiation rite (ie Bah Mitzvah) or are you from birth considered a Jew? What if your mother is Jewish but you don't want to be, or do not believe in the Jewish faith? Do you have a choice, or is it "tough cheese, sonny"?

Just out of interest.

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 3:15 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
77. Terminator writes:

i want to know where the hell Vayne Theories is, since he was the one that posted this.

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 3:30 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
78. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Psythe, my intent was not to bury your points in detail. The main thrust of my post about Judaism's position on the One God issue - and that was that there isn't just one god, but there is only one God *for Jews*. Like someone who says the only flavor for me is chocolate. They are not denying that vanilla and strawberry exist, they are just saying that they might as well not exist *for them*. That's all I was getting at.

The God of Israel, Jesus, the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Allah ARE all the same Diety - which is where the horror of what has happened to all three people's really focuses. One of my favorite bumperstickers is "Jesus, save me from your followers!". But I know from personal experience that MOST Christians are fine people. The same can be said of Jews. I HOPE the same can be said of Muslims, but I know darn few, and the ones I get to see most are in other countries and want to kill me. I know by looking at their holy book that that representation might be pretty complete....

Judaism is matrilineal, meaning it is passed from the mother to the child. The clever rabbis of ancient times figured, "well, you always know if the mom was Jewish!" - so that is how the faith passes - but the covenant must be seal for this to happen. For boys, without a circumcision, they do not become part of the Jewish community. Without a Bar Mitzvah, they do not become Jewish adults. There is also, I believe a third component that happens around a year old in some forms of Judaism (Orodox, reformed, etc.) but I am not sure about that. For girls there is a naming ceremony that happens near birth, and a Bat Mitzvah. So having a Jewish mother only entitles you to join the community if the proper rites are observed. I hope that helps.

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 9:39 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
79. Terminator writes:

oh sh** here we go again

# Aug 16, 2006 @ 11:22 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
OpethSuck!!!'s avatar

Member

80. OpethSuck!!! writes:

I thought you were going to try to keep them shorter damn it! lol

# Aug 17, 2006 @ 12:48 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

81. psythe writes:

Cool, cheers for that. As I said before, I'm not very read in Judaism, I only have a basic general knowledge. And that being about a religion, I tend to forget alot of that knowledge mainly because I don't particularly care. But I did figure that that was how the "matrilineal" thing worked (somewhat). I had a vague idea, at any rate.

So what you are saying is that Jews deny other Gods worship, whilst Christians and Islamic people deny other Gods' existence. So in effect, all three are denying other Gods. Which is what I was getting at. It's like three different couples having a baby for different reasons. One couple wants to understand their own parents further, another wants to pick up government benefits, and the other need a heir to their throne. Regardless of reason, all three couples are still having a baby. I hope that analogy fits...

I don't personally know a particularly large amount of Islamic people, Muslims, Arabs, whatever you want to call them. However I feel that just like us Westerners, they are relatively good people. It's just that our media only wants to show us the crazy violent sonsob****es. Same as their media probably only shows them George Bush. I'd be angry, too :P

I like that Bumper sticker - does anyone else want to rip throats out when they see yet ANOTHER of those stupid bloody "baby on board" things... grrrr...

# Aug 17, 2006 @ 2:33 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
82. harvester of sorrow writes:

Its nice to see that everyone here has taken the time to look into the different types of religon. Too many times have i seen someone say i hate religon but have nevver actually learned about it.

# Aug 17, 2006 @ 2:34 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

83. psythe writes:

yeah, that angers me a fair bit. I'm the type of person who needs a justification for an argument if one is made. If you can't back up your opinion, then it must be a pretty useless opinion, in my opinion :P

# Aug 17, 2006 @ 3:04 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
84. Diamond Oz writes:

Hell yeah. It's like a mate of mine started an anti- scientology group BUT he had actually read up on all the facts and it's a f***ing dangerous cult basically.

# Aug 17, 2006 @ 9:08 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
85. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Psythe, While I am not trying to make this the 'defense of Judaism' thread, I do want to clear up one thing. Judaism does not deny other gods, strictly speaking (and my interpretation is a logical and scholarly one, not a religious one - please keep that in mind). What the first Commandment says is "Hey, Jews, I'm talkin' to YOU and just you: I'm the only God you guys and gals are allowed to worship! Those other folks over there can do what they want, worship their gods, etc. But YOU, My Choosen Peeps, you better not let me catch you sucking up to Malal or Baal, or Marduk, got it?". That is fundamentally different from the other two faiths, which say they have a monoploy on Diety, and theirs is the only game in town.

Ah, monotheism...truly a gift of the gods!

# Aug 17, 2006 @ 11:16 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
86. dave mustain writes:

sorry " Casual Fan Gone.." i got sick,i was posting u from the hosp. and i`m still in coz i did some operations,i wanted to complete my discussion with u!,lsn i rly want to talk about it but its hard here on the website, if u want to add me on ur Msn "killer_man36@hotmail.com"..if u dont want to add me it up to u,but belive me,and u`ll know it oneday,our religon dosn`t say that we have to kill all the non-muslims,in the same country with our prophit there were jews,chritians and other ppl i dunno what is thier name in english but we call them (majoos),but u live in america,and the american supporting for the israeli occupation is known for everyone,so the media may not be that
true with U!..if u want to discuss with documents and evrything,my e-mail is with u,so we can chat,and i have nth to do in the hospital but to be online!! hehe...
Bin laden is not our religon! bin laden is a muslim man who is applying the islam in a wrong way!!

# Aug 20, 2006 @ 7:17 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
87. Captain White writes:

Yeah, like yo momma!

# Aug 20, 2006 @ 7:24 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
88. Lugash writes:

I AM LUGASH!!!

# Aug 20, 2006 @ 7:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
89. rulin kmadd writes:

im a fa**ot,korndogg is right and i suck donkeyballs,draiman is always right and i was a f***in retard not to realize it,its like sayin america needs to get bombed,im a d***

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 12:16 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
90. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Dave Mustain,

That last thing you said gives me a bit of hope. Just a bit. I may write you tomorrow on your email address, I may not - I'll think about it. It doesn't help your cause alot that your email address is "Killer Man".... Of course, you may get some hate mail claiming to be me now, just be aware of that. I'll be tacticaldogma@yahoo.com. Anyone else claiming to be Casual Fan Gone Hardcore not from that address you can ignore. Anyone else here who wants (for some reason) to use that address to talk to me - fine with me. If you waste my time, I won't respond. And it's a throw-away account, so no harm to me if I ditch it because my inbox fills up with crap. OH, and if I get any viruses or other nonsense - all your IP addresses are captured here. :D

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 1:19 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
psythe's avatar

Writer, Reviewer

91. psythe writes:

Casual, I don't think you quite got my point. I'll try and restate it;

Christianity and Islam are monotheistic (believe in the existence of a single deity only, as you are aware) and thus deny other deities, gods, allahs, transcendant beings, omnipotent creatures, whatever you want to call them. However, because of the point you made about the first commandment of Judaism, I'm arguing that while Jews do not deny the existence of other deities, they are denied the permission to worship them, and thus deny other possible deities worship. In that way, Jews deny the gods. Therefore, Jews, Christians and Muslims alike deny other gods, if in different ways. That is my interpretation, and I would consider it to be as logical as your own, and in no way religious.

And don't worry about what the thread becomes, you need two sides for an arguement or debate. Doesn't work if everyone just agrees, does it? And I must say, I've thoroughly enjoyed our little debate thusfar.

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 1:44 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
92. Dave mustain writes:

psythe
there is a point man!..ISLAM,CHRISTIANITY and the JEWS religon said that there religon IS from the creator of this world! ((Allah for muslims/Jahova for jew/the father and...for christians))which is the same source! ..so there is must b a discussion between these 3 religons!..to find the purest religon from the creator!!..this is the 1st point!
and casual fan
my e-mail dosen`t represent my religon,its just coz i lsn to metal music man!..dont b so shallow,and i`m sure that u r not!and dont worry i wont HACK U,not bcoz u`ll get ALL my IPs,but bcoz i just want to talk with u about my religon and about ur opinion!and to know right from wrong!..I`m waiting

btw,for the 1st time Anathema is coming to my country (jordan) its gonna be a gr8 event FOR US..i hope jordan to b on the underground map!..heh,i`m so happy

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 10:10 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
93. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Psythe - OK, now I get you, thanks for the clarification. I have enjoyed talking will each of you as well. From your standpoint, yes, other dieties (should they exist) are denied the worship of faithful Jews. Jews are specificly, explicitly, and in the strongest possible terms, prohibited from worshiping anyone but the God of Abraham and the Israelites. This Diety is widely considered the synonomous with Allah, and God the Father (and personally I'd add The Great Spirit, Vishnu, and all similar Dieties, as the chances of them actually being discrete Beings seems vanishlingly small and logically unsatisfying).

Dave - I did in fact write you today, awaiting a reply. I have to admit that you contradict yourself fairly severely in place. Which Dave am I to believe? the one who in post 36 says "...the truth is clear,palestine is an islamic arabian country! and we will lebirate it sooner or later,u will follow the anti-christ,and we will kill u by following jesus!..wait and u`ll c!.." OR the Dave who says in 86 and 92 that bin Laden is not a true representative of Islam, and that the three religions must have discussion?

There is a principle in the Koran that instructs Muslims that no treaty with Infidels is binding - it can be betrayed the moment the Muslim(s) are in a stronger position. I can dig up the exact reference if needed. That makes discussion suspect, because you seem to be changing your tune. I hope that is because you are seeing things differently... Feel free to take the discussion private, but that does deny the folks that have been following this the benefit of your side of the story.

I did ask you a question a few posts back, probably while you were sick. If you are feeling up to it, I'd like to hear your answer.

Dave, as a Muslim, do you see a way that Muslims could live in peace with non-Muslims, including Jews? If so, what does that way look like?

# Aug 21, 2006 @ 11:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
94. dave mustain writes:

Casual Fan
1st thank u for sending me---2ndman i didn`t change my tune for sth,but was because i read all comments against me(ISLAM),and some said "they r all terrorests they have to die..ALL OF THEM!!"..so i went OVER-reacted!..
and about ur Question!..the answer is yes,from the kor`an there is a sentence in arabic"?? ????? ?? ????? " ,and this sentence means that muslims not allowed to push other ppl to belive in ISLAM..and its all clear in the islamic HISTORY..b4 evry war,the leaders of the muslim army gave the enemy three choices..
1st to b a MUSLIM
2nd to b a friend with the islamic country
3rd ..IF u WANT war,we r READY"

but we cant live with betrayers!..this is the point man,my prophit WAS LIVING with JEWS in the SAME country,and HE fought them when they Betrayed him!!
its all clear in my religon
YES we can live with Non-muslims in peace,Even with Jews!

but MY Question for U is, Is It right,that Jews said in The "tulmood" that the JEW is allowed to kill,rape,steel,and betray the other ppl (NON-jews)??

man i sent an E-mail,but it seems that it went to ur Junk-mail..lol,so open ur junk mail to find my MSG

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 8:14 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
95. dave mustain writes:

and man there is no princeple in islam instructs us to betray any contract or a promise,in oppiste islam instructs us to forgive others as much as we can while we r strong (with a limits ofcourse),but it never said to betray our enemy!..if can dig it,i`ll be a JEW now!!

# Aug 22, 2006 @ 8:25 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
96. Casual Fan Gone Hard Core writes:

Um...Dave...there is NOTHING in the Talmud (the 600 or so laws governing Jewish life, derived from the 10 Commandments) allowing or condoning murder, rape or theft by, for, or against ANYONE by ANYONE. That sounds like Islamic propaganda against Jews. Kind of like the German propaganda of the 1930's that said Jews had horns and ate babies.... Complete and utter bullsh!t, you've been lied to. If you feel I am wrong...then please quote me the passage in the Talmud you are talking about and I'll go look it up. Let me ask you this, WHY would the Ten Commandments forbid murder, theft and covetousness and adultery...and the Talmud, which is based directly on the Commandments, allow or encourage those things? It doesn't even make a little sense. Your Imam is lying to you man.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 12:38 AM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
97. dave mustain writes:

maybe its not in the talmud but its ture,maybe its in the torah! and i`ll write u the quote! plz we r talking with facts,so we dont have to lie! the quote would be written here after a couple of days! and if u know all of that about JEWS,can u tell how they discribe GOD!?!?!?..truly! hehe,and u r talking about sense!?and my IMAM is telling us the bullsh** that our goverments is saying!! hello!! its the middle east!..where democracy IS DEAD!!

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 7:27 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
98. dave mustain writes:

"WHY would the Ten Commandments forbid murder, theft and covetousness and adultery...and the Talmud, which is based directly on the Commandments, allow or encourage those things?"
coz this religon has been changed by jews!! ofcourse god wont tell them to kill anyone! but they have changed it man! TAKE A LOOK AT THE DEAD SEA SCROLLS!

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 7:33 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
illy-B's avatar

Member

99. illy-B writes:

Hey mustain (spell the name right at least) I will shake my zionist, circumcized, schmuck in your face a-hole. Isreal should have kept going and not wussed out because the U.N told them to take their toys and go back to Tel-Aviv. I am not partial to any sort of organized religion it is for the weak, and run by people who want power and control. Their followers are blindly led down whatever path is hot that week to the bleeping facists who run the show's in Mosques, synagogues. churchs or wherever crazy people congregate. I hated crazy Phuks who wanted to kill me because of where I live on 9-10-2001.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 8:40 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address
Anonymous Reader
100. Casual Fan Gone Hardcore writes:

Dave - you are getting incoherent. I understand if your English isn't perfect...but the meaning of what you are saying is getting lost. Te things you are saying about Jews are not true. If you mean Israelis, that is different from Jews (and you are still wrong). The 10 Commandments in Hebrew forbids MURDER, not killing. In fact, death is the punishment for certain terrible crimes (like murder). Killing is allowed in self-defense, as in...when terrorist a-holes infiltrate your country and kill or kidnap your people.

I still don't see any references or passages man, give me some idea what you are talking about. There is nothing in Jewish law that permits rape, theft or murder. And the Torah is widely recognized as one of the most unchanging documents in civilization because of how they were made and sanctified. There were too many copies for gross changes like the ones you accuse to ever be made and not detected. Sorry, I just can't agree with you here. Maybe I am not understanding you.

# Aug 24, 2006 @ 9:50 PM ET | IP Logged Reveal posts originating from the same IP address

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