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Guys we all come from the same place!!

Posted in: Forum Home >> Core >> Guys we all come from the same place!!

Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 150 1 2 3 ... 5 6 Last
Displaying posts 1 - 25 of 150 1 2 3 ... 5 6 Last
Mar 12, 2010 5:23 PM ET #1 (permalink)

I'm new to the forum but i just need to address this. I have listened to metal for a while now and I started in the thrash and death metal stuff. As my musical taste grew I started to like more of the core style. I know mostly listen to deathcore and metalcore. Let me remind you I still love thrash and other "true" metal. But it seems that alot of metal heads like to bash the core genre. I just dont understand why they do it I mean they came from metal and I think as long as your not promoting the gays ass hip hop and boy band scene you should still be able to call yourself a metal head. I have been harrased because I'm not a "true" metal head can someone please explain why peoplethink that the core genre is poser metal.

Mar 12, 2010 6:57 PM ET #2 (permalink)

The fans and how they act mostly. The music is ok but kinda repetive and the fact that there is a break down every 30 seconds. Break downs are ok if used sparingly IE Dying Fetus but 3 to 4 times a song is a bit much.

Mar 12, 2010 7:37 PM ET #3 (permalink)

I can understand that. I can agree with the breakdown part to a degree. I enjoy breakdowns but some bands can make them repetative. Kinda off topic but Dying Fetus is amazing. Thanks for informing me instead of criticizing me.

Mar 12, 2010 8:46 PM ET #4 (permalink)

I think most of the hate for metalcore and deathcore has more to do with the scenes and trends associated with those genres as well as a distaste for the music itself. Also, most people seem to really dislike "hXc" dancing which definitely comes hand in hand with the given genre, and endless breakdowns don't help either cuz the bands gotta "open up this bitch" and get the whole crowd swingin' at each other.

Mar 12, 2010 11:04 PM ET #5 (permalink)

I understand and I can see where they are coming from. I listened to metalcore and deathcore cause i liked it and I could careless what other people think. But two things i do hate is hxc dancing and trends.

Mar 14, 2010 1:14 AM ET #6 (permalink)

Well if you just like it for the music then thats cool, I don't know how anyone could hate on that. It's just that a good portion of the fans of these particular genres seem to be into it as a fashion statement, or stress relief from teenage angst.

Mar 14, 2010 5:41 PM ET #7 (permalink)

00s Hardcore/deathcore/metalcore are not the same thing as metal - so why label it so. They're different cultures for one, and I reserve the right to hate anything I see as degenerate or negatively affecting the things I love. Of course, noone deserves to be hassled though, but noone should be forced to consider you a metalhead if you aren't either (which you probably are if you listen to metal).

"as your not promoting the gays ass hip hop and boy band scene"

Take how you think about those genres, and then imagine that's how I feel about metalcore/deathcore. I could write an essay on the topic but I won't bore you - in two points I think the music is degenerate and watered down, and I don't associate in any way with the culture. On the opposite side, metal is life for me.

Mar 15, 2010 9:39 PM ET #8 (permalink)

well im with ya on that one there thrasher, some of my fav bands are considered metalcore IE Unearth and God Forbid and i really dont understand how ppl can say they arent metal.

Mar 15, 2010 11:14 PM ET #9 (permalink)

^Yo dude Unearth is the fuckin shit man, props for givin' them a shout out, I really don't get why so many people say they aren't metal either, perhaps Cynic good give us his thoughts. Personally I think Unearth are metal as fuck, especially "III: In the Eyes of Fire", and "The March". But "The Oncoming Storm", "The Stings Of Conscience", and their "Endless" EP are definitely metalcore without debate. Saying you don't like a band is fine but what's with saying something isn't metal just because they aren't some progressive technical death/thrash hybrid.

Mar 16, 2010 7:20 AM ET #10 (permalink)

^exactly sir. III: In the Eyes of Fire is one of my fav albums i own. Its fuckin heavy as shit and just pure awesomeness from beginning to end. And i also agree about from The Oncoming Storm and back were very metalcore but the song Black Hearts Now Reign is really what got me hooked on em and i will defend that cd until the day i die lol. But i really dont have a fuckin clue how someone could listen to that album and then say "this isn't metal"

Mar 16, 2010 4:00 PM ET #11 (permalink)

Yeah dude I wonder the same thing man, The Oncoming Storm is without a doubt a metalcore album but that shit is heavy as fuck dude. My favorite album by them, it's the one that got me hooked on the band. But yeah I really don't see why people say it's not metal and why so many people refuse to accept metalcore as a sub-genre of heavy metal. I'll agree that most of it sucks balls, especially most of these new "deathcore" bands but there are a few who are really great. ZOMBIE AUTOPILOT !!!!!!!!!!

Mar 16, 2010 8:13 PM ET #12 (permalink)

^fuckin A right man.

Mar 17, 2010 7:36 PM ET #13 (permalink)

i love metalcore. i'll put it straight out there.i grew up with many different types of music around me (my dads motown hits, my brothers gangster rap, my sisters country music) all of which i have a lot of respect for. but when the 90s ended and i began junior high i started findin my own identity and heart in the metal. various bands like metallica, korn, godsmack, white/rob zombie, and some manson were all cornerstones for my love for metal and diversity. gradually as i got my hands onto killswitch, as i lay dying, blood has been shed, and glass casket. i found a genre i can really love and respect above all. but time after time when surfing the net all i find are articles n forums bashing the very bands i love most. "too many breakdowns" "lack of musicianship" "repetitiveness" "fake metal" all the same shots fired at every aforementioned bands. but my only question is ... wtf?
i thought the whole idea behind metal was to be something bigger, stronger, faster, and deeper. i fail to see where any of these bands lack n any of those.
if ur seriously gonna sit there and tell me as i lay dying, and misery signals is tasteless compared to cannibal corpse or gwar then u seriously need to get off ur high horse. wheres the musicianship in tryin to play as fast as possible every song, or ranting in the same guteral voice about fukin a girl with a knife, or shooting down demon space aliens. sure some of the bands are unoriginal and water down.but ur gonna get that in EVERY genre wether it be glam metal, regular metal (which i dont even knwo wut that is ne more), rock, hip hop. it all gets over used after awhile.
im not apologizing for likin music with some sort of depth, dynamics, and creativity. music that can actually inspire, unite, and remind people the power of the power they hold within themselves.
metalcore is metal, its music, its here, and it lives.
and most importantly it deserves to be respected

Mar 17, 2010 8:20 PM ET #14 (permalink)

"wheres the musicianship in tryin to play as fast as possible every song, or ranting in the same guteral voice about fukin a girl with a knife, or shooting down demon space aliens."

Here's a tip - if you're trying to push an argument that people should stop stereotyping metalcore based on the mediocre bands, don't do it yourself to metal.

"metalcore is metal"

In your opinion.

"it deserves to be respected"

I'm a massive metal fan. I don't like new hardcore. Therefore, I dislike all metalcore and see it all as a degenerate form of metal - understand? You like it, cool, that doesn't bother me. But metal fans do get bothered when people try and mislabel metalcore bands as metal to get cred, and the fact that their scene is overrun by bands they hate also compounds the problem. Hence, there is a large backlash. What's there not to understand.

Mar 17, 2010 8:49 PM ET #15 (permalink)

I agree with pretty much everything you said there Cynic, but I'm just curious about one thing. Why is it that you do not consider metalcore to be something of a sub-genre of metal? you seem to be quite the genre expert. I can see that you don't like it and my assumption is that your distaste has some influence on your genre definition.

Mar 17, 2010 9:25 PM ET #16 (permalink)

Well I was actually careful not to directly say that in the previous post - I just mentioned passively that some people don't consider it metal.

If you're asking me, I think it's a tricky situation for a few reasons a) genre's aren't natively things that are made to be heirachical, they're descriptions of different sounds, and b) some people say metalcore is a fusion of two genres, and others would have right to say it has enough qualities to be considered a new genre.

That said there are really two ways of thinking about metalcore as a fusion genre. a) the band by band Metal Archives way which ignores the question completely - if a band is more metal than core it's a metal band. This way says metal is metal if it's more metal that the other thing it's combined with. The other way is b) consider metal to be metal, non-metal to be non-metal, and have a third category call fusion genres which are genres unto themselves.

I personally think metalcore is big enough to be a genre unto itself and I don't like calling fusion bands metal (even if that means calling my favourite band and namesake not metal). It's such a complex topic but you could take into the account the culture of a genre etc.

In the end, if you see genres as entities that can't be locked down into descriptions like in the previous points then the definition of metal is a community decision based on how much a new genre sounds like an old genre - for example there are lots of people who think Linkin Park is "too far away" from metal to be metal, and so that seems to stand. So if you're of this school of thought, it's up to the metal community to decide whether the average metalcore band is too far away in sound from a metal band to be considered metal. I think it sits just past the line of metal, and I'm strongly of the opinion that genres are not described well when everything is pushed into one big amorphous blob. Separation = better description of the sound. I don't like wasting time and money buying cds from bands that call themselves metal but aren't.

"my assumption is that your distaste has some influence on your genre definition."

It fuels my aggression to argue definitions :)

Mar 17, 2010 10:28 PM ET #17 (permalink)

I agree with a lot of Cynic's points. On Unearth in particular, yes, they borrow liberally from the Gotherburg riffage, but on the other hand wear their hardcore influences on their sleeves. If you are strongly opposed to hardcore, you probably won't like Unearth. I say "strongly opposed" because I don't like most regular hardcore (but am not opposed to the sound in particular), but I love a good bit of metalcore such as Unearth, Shadowsfall, Himsa, Maroon, to name a few. Those are all blistering, shred your face off brands of metalcore, but I like many other kinds too.

I go more by Cynic's description of the community definition, rather than hard categories. In the end, everything is a continuum. Should we decry a band with 10% core influence the same as a band that is 50-50 metal and core? Some people would, and some people would not. Hardcore (hardcore punk) is widely considered the fusion of metal and punk, so I would lean toward putting metalcore (more metallic) under the "metal" umbrella. My thoughts are that if you don't like it, you just need to define the particular styles of metal you do like better, as "metal" is a broad umbrella anyway (when used that way as opposed to shorthand for "heavy metal" proper).

There are semantic and subjective facets to the arguments, that I'm not really one to argue strongly against someone else though. I take a different approach to what Cynic is saying, but I totally understand how he views it and can conceed many points to his perspective as well. In the end, we're talking trying to make the fusion of multiple styles that morph over time something clear cut, which it will never be.

(This post was last edited on March 17, 2010 at 10:28 PM ET.)

Mar 18, 2010 8:58 AM ET #18 (permalink)

the way that i see this is that "Metalcore" bands can fall under both the Metal and Core genre's depending on the band hence the genre "Metalcore" If a band is more Core than metal then i can see them being considered as more of a Core band and vice versa. But i totally agree with OhFa'Sho as well because i have caught a lot of shit for likeing alot of Metalcore/New Wave of American Heavy Metal bands. But you kno what?.....every single motherfucker on here had to start somewhere and get a passion for metal/hardcore/rock at some point in their lives and i'd be willing to bet that in most cases those bands are not nearly as "hard" or "dark" or as "brutal" as what you listen to now. My first metal album i owned was LD 50 by Mudvayne and after that I bought Waking the Fallin by A7X and that was my start in metal. I catch shit all the time from various metalhead about loving both of those bands. But these same ppl that make fun of me and call me gay n shit for lovin the very bands that ignited my passion for metal usually wont say who thier first bands that they loved were because they would realize that they would have NO room to bash on somebody else. Im not ashamed one bit for likeing A7X, Mudvayne, Disturbed, Godsmack, Tool, Slipknot, Drowning Pool, Rob/White Zombie, Static X, ect cuz those were the bands that helped start me on my path to metal. Do i still listen to all of them now? hell no but if it wasn't for those bands and their importance to me then who kno's what type of music i would be listening to now.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, the first "harder" bands that i really hooked onto were "metalcore" bands such as Unearth, KsE, Shadows Fall, All That Remains ect. I respect all of those bands and they all have something to say that is more than just ur average run of the mill metal/angry songs. Im not saying that all metal is angry in lyrics im just saying most of the stuff that the majority of metalheads listen to is just hate speeches I.E. any Dying Fetus song lol. Metalcore stands out BECAUSE it is the only genre that bridges taht gap between Core and Metal and thats what makes it different and unique.

Final thought: Metalcore as a whole could be considered as both a sub-genre of both metal and core or it could be its own genre unto itself.....it all depends on the band in question.

Mar 18, 2010 4:08 PM ET #19 (permalink)

"Metalcore stands out BECAUSE it is the only genre that bridges taht gap between Core and Metal"

Well you know, apart from crossover... and grindcore, and crustpunk.

Mar 18, 2010 5:10 PM ET #20 (permalink)

i didnt mean "metalcore IS metal" like "chad micheal micheals IS figure skating" (lmao).
im just saying theres grind metal, death metal, wutever-long-bugs-bunny-title-metal, n they all have there stereotypes, they all have there bands that "dilute" its sound, and they all have metal n there names; yet metalcore for sum reason IS NOT metal.
thats wut i dont understand.

i wasnt really stereotyping as much as i was makin an observation. i was at sounds of the underground talkin and listenin to people bash the three headling bands (trivium, in flames, and As I Lay Dying) n how gwar n cannibal corpse were the only respectable metal bands there. so of course i give em a hear like i do all bands (and had before) n im just like wut is it about those bands compared to the others that make THEM so godly, n the other three so fake. i respect their show, i respect that they can get together and put stuff out that other people can really dig. but wut do they have that metalcore doesnt. they have speed, they have musicianship, and its heavy. isnt it all metal?

u have rock - sub genres including: soft rock, alternative, indie. w bands like creed, cold play, matchbox twenty.
u have hard rock - sub genres: grunge, punk, progress rock: nirvana, breaking benjamin, tool
and u have heavy metal - nu metal, death metal, thrash, METALCORE: slipknot, suffocation, august burns red, hatebreed, darkest hour.
its all metal duude.

i dont care if u think its mediocre or overplayed or diluted, cuz every genre is like that.
to say it has a lack of musicianship or they all sound the same is a pretty ignorant thing to say.
wether its fused of two or three or four genres i dont care. thats the way all music is pretty much made its all an influence of something else w a taste of this and touch of that. its like throwing away the green m&ms cuz ur only gonna eat the yellow n blue ones. (yellow n blue makes green)
its all metal.

Mar 18, 2010 5:50 PM ET #21 (permalink)

"its all metal." - That's YOUR opinion. Here's an example - is Nirvana thrash metal? Why not? If someone thinks Nirvana is thrash metal, why are they wrong and you right? Now imagine that the difference between Nirvan and thrash metal is the difference between Killswitch Engage and metal in my mind.

EDIT: If you really want a painstakingly drawn out comparison of musical techniques in metal vs. metalcore and how they show a separation of genres, I'm prepared to give it. It won't be pretty though.

(This post was last edited on March 18, 2010 at 5:51 PM ET.)

Mar 18, 2010 6:26 PM ET #22 (permalink)

actually, i would be very interested to hear what you think the distinctions are.

Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM ET #23 (permalink)

of course not cuz nirvana and grunge dont come from metal where as metalcore and kse do. i know theres obviouse techniqual differences that alone has been conceeded simply do to the fact that it has to be called a different name. my mom and dad r from mexico, me and my siblings were born in america. so it goes without sayin there goin to be differences between me and my bros and my cousins who were born n raised in mexico. but does that mean im not hispanic. if i have a kid with another hispanic woman from america are our kids not hispanic? im not mexican i wasnt born there but when i apply to jobs i HAVE to check off hispanic, not caucasian, even though i was born in america. metalcore doesnt sounds like metallica obviously, but its not hiphop, its not rock, its not country music. its metal.

Mar 18, 2010 7:05 PM ET #24 (permalink)

Your analogy is flawed for the same reason your metalcore argument is - race is not definable. If you're great, great, great, great, great grandfather was 1/32 hispanic - does that make you hispanic?

metalheadforever - maybe if I find some spare time.

"metalcore doesnt sounds like metallica obviously, but its not hiphop, its not rock, its not country music. its metal."

Again, these are just your opinions on where YOU draw the line. In the end, it's the community as a whole who decide the meaning of terms (because without a community, there is no meaning). Here's an example which I hope you get because this argument isn't going anywhere:

Suffocation
Morbid Angel
Metallica
Pantera
Danzig
--------------
Killswitch Engage
Tool
Nirvana
Linkin Park
Muse
Fallout Boy

This is a list which you might conder ranked in some kind of metal order. The closer we get to the line, the more discussion on what is an isn't metal we have. Whether the line is drawn below or above Killswitch Engage/Danzig/Nirvana is upto each person. However, the community makes judgements as a group through arguments just like this - some communities think the line is some places (i.e. ignorant teenage girls think that Linkin Park is death metal) and other communities think that Killswitch Engage doesn't belong in the holy realms of metal (people like me). Your "line" has the backing of most mainstream metal and metalcore fans - the majority of people who listen to music heavier than Muse lets say. The elitist "line" has the backing of the elitist community, the people who are arguably the most dedicated metal fans. They are just different opinions, but both backed by different groups.

Mar 18, 2010 7:16 PM ET #25 (permalink)

^^^
That about sums it up.

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