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Perhaps A Stupid BM Question, But With A purpose I Promise

Posted in: Forum Home >> General Discussion >> Perhaps A Stupid BM Question, But With A purpose I Promise

Displaying 15 posts
Displaying 15 posts
Nov 11, 2009 1:59 PM ET #1 (permalink)

I'm typing a paper on my personal view on the essence of Black Metal, but I need something to compare it to before I can be certain/be more specific when expressing my view. I just need ideas to compare/bounce off of/agree with/disagree with. So answer me this:

You may also give the definition of BM. (Should the definition and the essence of BM be one and the same to you in some way please do explain).

It would also help if you answered the question "What does it mean to be "True" ?"

Anything helps, please share your thoughts. Thank you.

(This post was last edited on November 11, 2009 at 6:13 PM ET.)

Nov 11, 2009 2:45 PM ET #2 (permalink)


Nov 11, 2009 3:06 PM ET #3 (permalink)

To be honest, it's Satan. Death metal is nihilistic, but black metal has a strong satanic element which makes it differ. Don't have time to flesh that out at the moment but hope it helped.

Nov 11, 2009 6:41 PM ET #4 (permalink)

Haha! I knew that's what that video would be!

Nov 12, 2009 2:15 AM ET #5 (permalink)

My advice would be to contrast and compare with White Metal. Since BM came about as, basically, a rebellion against the established Church and WM came about as a rebellion against BM, there's a nice little dynamic that reveals, I think, a fair bit about what exactly BM and WM mean to their followers, and to the other.

...I did a research paper pretty much on this back in yr 12. Well, I concentrated on the link between religious tradition and metal (black and death in particular), but still. It was difficult to find info on, tho, had to search through other research papers on the history of rock n roll, the history of the church's stance on rock n roll and rock n roll's stance on the church, interviews of metallers and transcripts of religious people calling loud music the devil and whatnot. (Shrugs) I did it mostly out of interest, learned a bit, don't remember most of it, good luck to ya :)

Nov 12, 2009 10:43 PM ET #6 (permalink)

I'm doing this out of my own interest too. But just recently, I kept wondering if I should bother writing the paper on it. My view is pretty well formed for the most part, but I'm asking other people about it too and I'm getting some awesome responses. I could definitely add on to my view, or at least have some food for thought.

Oh, and thank you for your efforts, everyone.

(This post was last edited on November 12, 2009 at 10:57 PM ET.)

Nov 15, 2009 11:52 PM ET #7 (permalink)

I suppose that to put it simply the essence of black metal is the pride, and preservation of heritage. No matter what it might be for the individual and the strength to do it no matter what the cost is. The sound of the music must be grim, and necro, and spikes must be a part of the person's outfit. Instead of going against the grain of their heritage black metallers embrace it. That is sort of the short of the long if it.

Nov 16, 2009 7:52 AM ET #8 (permalink)

What I wonder is why? Why does it have to be this and why does it have to be that? Black metal is supposed to be the grandest way to pay homage to Satan right? Then why the rules and expected conformity? My best friend used to be a Satanist, and he always said Satanism was alot about doing your own thing and not conforming. I just think in the end it ends being just as convoluted as Christianity. I'm not being disrespectful or anything, I'm just curious. I'm a Christian, and I don't follow all the little rules put out by the dozens of denominations that can't agree on what way to properly honor Christ. Me personally, Emperor took black metal in the best direction as far as production values. They kinda eshewed the traditional Satanic lyrics and went with more thought provoking stuff. I just don't like the uber Satanic lyrics, just like I don't like praise and worship lyrics. That's just my 2 cents. If I am owed change, just let me know.

NP: Dimmu Borgir- Hybrid Stigmata (The Apostasy)

Nov 16, 2009 12:37 PM ET #9 (permalink)

Gotta agree with AP on that one.

Nov 16, 2009 7:55 PM ET #10 (permalink)

"Satanism was alot about doing your own thing and not conforming. I just think in the end it ends being just as convoluted as Christianity"

Agreed, a thousand times agreed. I've heard this "I'm a Satanist" thing so many times, and more often than not it's just that the person holds some grudge against the establishement. Even those that do see Satanism as a quest for personal power and freedom through the renunciation of social order and expectation still don't seem to realise that they're just conforming to an alternative perspective. It's kind of like they're saying, "This is what's wrong with the Christian beliefs, and this is what's wrong with the bible, and this is what's wrong..." and they get so caught up in the tiny details they become blind to the bigger picture. I could never be a Christian, or any of its denominations, but in my mind Satanism is equally as ridiculous, if not even moreso in some cases.

...Don't mean to offend, of course, I know some of our members here feel strongly affiliated with either side of this argument. Just sharing my own point of view.

As for Black Metal, I honestly don't see why lyrical consideration has to be part of what defines a genre. I think it should be the music itself that we call BM, and not just what they're screeching about. One of the reasons I find it hard to take things like 'Viking' Metal and 'Pirate' Metal and so on seriously. I would love Amon Amarth if they were growling about ponies and rainbows, y'know, it's the music that makes them, not the mythological rhetoric. Although, that said, I'm fairly glad they're NOT singing about ponies and rainbows hahah :P

Nov 16, 2009 10:29 PM ET #11 (permalink)

Well said sir.

Nov 17, 2009 12:35 PM ET #12 (permalink)

I'd love to hear an Amon Amarth song about ponies and rainbows, personally. It would make me giggle.

I'm not a Satanist or a Christian either, but I agree, Satanism in some aspects tends to follow similar rituals that Christianity follows, all the while claiming to be against it.

And I'm sorry, but how can some Satanists claim to not believe in God? Was Lucifer NOT a fallen angel?

Nov 17, 2009 1:05 PM ET #13 (permalink)

I'm really not trying to bash those with beliefs different than my own, but what I've really never "gotten" is LaVeyan Satanism. Why not just say "I live my life how I see fit", rather than putting some rebellious label on it?

I think Psythe covered a lot of it a couple posts up especially the "more often than not it's just that the person holds some grudge against the establishement" bit.
Is there something I'm missing?

Nov 17, 2009 1:13 PM ET #14 (permalink)

To me, LaVey's school of Satanism seems more like Humanism. It doesn't seem so much like Satanism in the sense that it's not pro-Satan, it's just anti-God in the fact that you're doing what you want as opposed to what God wants. I think calling it Satanism at all is a bit farcical (sp?) if you ask me.

Nov 17, 2009 6:29 PM ET #15 (permalink)

LaVeyan Satanism is the one I would probably most identify with, but I don't because I see no need to put the tag 'Satanism' on it. Basically they don't consider Lucifer a metaphysical being or whatever, they think of 'him' rather as a state of being - the idea of LaVeyan Satanism is to become Lucifer himself through the enlightenment of rejecting all means and ends that do not directly serve the purpose of one's self. So basically you strive for personal power, regardless of the cost to others. Like Christianity, it has rules- do not attack unless attacked, but once attacked, destroy your enemy completely, for example. LaVeyan Satanism really has nothing at all to do with 'Satan,' it's just about doing what you want and rejecting the laws and such if they do not fit with what you want to do.

I identify more with the LaVeyan form of Satanism than others not because I strive for personal power above all things, or because I find it fitting with my life philosophy, but simply because the idea of Satanic worship that believes in an actual, physical, living representation of Lucifer seems utterly absurd to me. If he does exist, then God exists, and if both exist then why (like, seriously, WHY?) would anyone choose to worship the manifestation of evil whose high purpose is to punish the wicked - especially given the fact that worshipping him in itself makes you wicked - I mean, doesn't it just seem a little counterlogical? By worshipping him, you're putting yourself in line for him to punish you. And really, if God and Satan both exist, I'm sorry, but Satan is never going to win that war. God is omnipotent, all-powerful, all-seeing... who could stand against him? No-one, right? Lovely little realisation, that. So in my mind, any form of Satanism that worships an actual demon, or fallen angel, or prince of darkness, or bringer of light, or whatever you want to call him, is fail. Thus I prefer the LaVeyan theology that simply puts the tag 'Satanic' on its anti-social, anti-establishment perspectives on how best to lead ones life.

That said, I'll never follow LaVeyan Satanism either. I'm a fence-sitter, I guess.

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