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Metal Heads gang

Posted in: Forum Home >> General Discussion >> Metal Heads gang

Displaying posts 51 - 75 of 144 1 2 3 4 5 6 Last
Displaying posts 51 - 75 of 144 1 2 3 4 5 6 Last
Jul 20, 2010 8:20 PM ET #51 (permalink)

To answer everything in a highly unorganized fashion...

I was giving him the difference between religion and race to highlight my point that one can be altered/removed while the other is forever. That was a key difference that seemed to be missed when he said something along the lines of how it was supposedly off that someone would bash religion but be against something that would be derogatory toward race.

As I said, religion, more often than not, is a choice. It's a hard choice and hard to change, but a choice nonetheless, because it's not impossible to alter one's religious state of mind. And how is it rational to assume that a being created us? We had no idea what created us, so to assume people or something with the image of humanity could create worlds while we can't is rather silly.

People are forced into religions, but theoretically, if one is willing to pay the price (which could be death), they could remove themselves from the religion that binds them. Even then, religion is a state of mind, and if the person doesn't believe in the religion but says they do, that doesn't truly make them religious. However, a whole different case applies to some people who are Jewish, but it's too much to go into that at this point.

"Negro" or "dumb nigger" are unacceptable because of how it they were moulded by history to be purely degrading and putting black people on a subhuman level. You can't just take any word and use it to mean anything you want.

The fact of the matter is that exposure to ideas and forms of critical thinking can change one's beliefs, but no one can ever change your race. I may be ashamed of it, but I'm an Iraqi, and that'll never change no matter what I do.

And Trendkill, I am anti-religion as well. I hate everything that religion is.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 8:28 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 8:22 PM ET #52 (permalink)

Yeah man,

I mean, He could have been many of things.
There is really no point to debate this topic because no one will win.
It's like discusing music.
Some people might agree with what you say , but alot of people are ganna disagree.

I find thats the perfect metaphor for religion.

Jul 20, 2010 8:28 PM ET #53 (permalink)

Wow this topic went in directions I never saw coming!

I wouldn't get on Durzaroth for saying "negro" too much. As nat said, there's worse words he could have said and he didn't seem to say it with much hostility, more as a stereotype. I'll also go one further on the issue and say that, unless you inseccantly (sp?) preach it or practice it to the point of violence and intimidation, people have the right to be racist. That goes for whites, black people, Hispanic, Asian, whatever. I say this because I believe the supression of anothers thought, whatever it is they may think, is part of fascism. This is why I strongly oppose the concept of anti-Fascist organisations as they're a group that goes out of their way to attempt to suppress the views of others. There's a word for that... begins with F. Ironic no? Also, I've seen way more racist comments on this website before, look at some of the Anthrax articles and see how some people view the band based on them having at least one Jewish member. Same goes for Skindred, Sevendust and Body Count, amongst others. And also, how long did that TimW guy stay around here for? Remember him? There was real racism that was fucking vile. To say that Nat shouldn't be allowed to use offensive words because of their history is quite narrow minded I think. People can use words to mean whatever they want, that's the beauty of language. For example I highly doubt John Lennon was racist, but he had a song called "Woman Is the Nigger Of The World."

Religion debate: Don't have as much to say about this one. I become more of an atheist with every passing day. I see no evidence for a competent creator and distrust religion whole heartedly. That said, while my main problem with religion is the need of many of them to convert people and piss me off with their loudness, I fear atheists do the same in some cases. A good example of this would be Richard Dawkins. Whilst I believe Dawkins is an extremely clever man and I enjoy listening to his speeches and debates, the extent to which he carries his atheistic tendencies goes a little far in my opinion. Attempting to spread atheism is just as bad as spreading Christianity or Islam and, like everything, should be left to the individual to decide what to believe in. I for one really hope there is no God or afterlife, as I don't like the idea of living forever and believe the concept of which to be arrogant. Something else worth bringing up would be that there are many religious people out there (AP being a great example) who don't feel the need to force their beliefs on others, respect the beliefs (or lack thereof) of other people and lead a good life. Criticism of religion isn't as black and white as one may think, though I would agree it has been used for evil too many times.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 8:34 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 8:30 PM ET #54 (permalink)

*Another dumb post. Deleted by current self.

(This post was last edited on February 25, 2012 at 10:44 AM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 8:35 PM ET #55 (permalink)

I'll have to disagree, but it wasn't much of the fact that he said the word negro, but rather this statement: "I dont mean like gang as in Bunch of stupid negros with baggy pants running around shooting people, more of an organization." That, in itself, is my problem with him.

And just because you use a term around your friends because you know they won't care, does not make it a less hateful term. Example: I use the term "gay" to describe things that are bad at times, and that's insulting in itself. Even though it's a habit and it's accepted, that still makes me an asshole, and so I try to reduce my use of the term to hopefully eliminate it.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 8:41 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 8:43 PM ET #56 (permalink)

Haha, I'm not saying it isn't spiteful in my case. It definitely is. Just not racist.

Jul 20, 2010 8:48 PM ET #57 (permalink)

The fact that he assumes gangs are filled with a bunch of "stupid negroes" makes it racist. What about white people? Why not the Chinese? But it had to be a bunch of "stupid negroes." It's racist, and he should leave or at least apologize.

Jul 20, 2010 8:59 PM ET #58 (permalink)

As I said, it was used more as a stereotype than as a racist statement. Maybe he should apologise, but ordering him to leave is a bit much for a statement that featured little traces of malice. It would be interesting to see what Gorecunt would make of this situation, as he is more qualified than any of us to decide whether or not it's a racist statement. Personally, I don't see it as any more harmful then British children imitating Pakistani accents and saying things like "Get out of my cab/shop." They don't mean anything by it and many will also have Middle Eastern friends. I also believe that stereotypes in small doses can actually be a good thing, as it's a way for people of different races to joke with each other. For example, when I was doing my door to door sales work, one of the other salesmen was a black muslim (who was honestly called Muhammad Ali by the way) and back and forth between him and some of the others was as shocking as it was hilarious. "Get out you black bastard." "Fuck you white cunt." *fits of laughter*

Jul 20, 2010 9:09 PM ET #59 (permalink)

The comment "dumb negro stereotype stereotype" obviously stepped over the line into uncomfortable and ambiguous territory, in that it could be taken innocently or not. Most people's reaction to ambiguity is to ask for clarification IN, not accuse someone of racism and then order them off the site.

Alternatively, I do believe racial/gender stereotyping in almost all cases (outside humour generally) are small slices of negativity, fuelling a world of hatred. I avoid them at all costs and passionately dislike them. In this case however, everyone in the thread prior to the post was making stereotype gang jokes - so you're all guilty to me :P

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:13 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:10 PM ET #60 (permalink)

Even by the definition of stereotype, it still was racist. Anything you use to categorically discriminate, whether it's an issue of inferiority or superiority, between people of different races, is racist. Here's a better definition than I can provide:

"discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race."

Therefore, he was being racist under the definition of "discriminatory." And he took it a bit too far. He discriminated by specifically stating his idea of "stupid negroes" being gang members. He could've said something like "stupid gang bangers" or something as such, but he chose to involve race, therefore making it racist. And it's not purely that he was racist that pissed me off, but the degree to which he was racist.

Jul 20, 2010 9:10 PM ET #61 (permalink)

IN - No offence , But I honestly think your wrong.
Stereotypically he is right.
He obviously justified that his "gang" is not a common gang and is a brotherhood.

If you see alot of TV , its common for more black people to assoicated in gangs then any other people I find.
Is that discriminating against a race? Maybe , But I don't define that as being racist. Because its the truth.
The negro term maybe seem a little uncalled for. But it was his way of discribing it.

I don't think he should be kicked off this website for such little cause.
Chill out maam.

Jul 20, 2010 9:15 PM ET #62 (permalink)

Why should I be offended? It's not like you started name-calling with me. And yeah, I guess he shouldn't leave, but we should definitely expect an apology. If he doesn't, I can't control whether he leaves or not and it's not like I'd have him banned or whatever, but I will use the report option on posts which I feel are against the rules of this site, and let deathbringer make his judgements suit the situation. I'm all for free speech, but I am against disrespecting the rules of this site.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:18 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:16 PM ET #63 (permalink)

I was hoping this would be a "gang" related thread, what the fuck?

Jul 20, 2010 9:18 PM ET #64 (permalink)

I don't think it was the word "negro" that caused the problem so much as the preceding word "stupid" that went with it. However, as I keep saying, this was used as more of a stereotype. It'd be like saying, "I'm in a Mexican mood today, too tired to do anything!" That could certainly be construed as racist, but it's used much more as an example of a stereotype than as a statement of racial superiority. In Britain, gangs are usually portrayed as being either white, black or middle Eastern and usually roaming together, but (at least from what the British are shown) the common stereotypical gang banger is, very sadly, a black person, or failing that a Mexican. It's unfortunate and probably complete bullshit but that's the stereotype. Something else to take into consideration is that this is typed word, which makes it harder to decipher how a person means something than if you talk to them in person.

Jul 20, 2010 9:23 PM ET #65 (permalink)

Race isn't even a definable thing, so you can't draw a neat circle around racism using a definition. So as you said, what we're really discussing is the "degree" of racial discrimination.

And the thing is, you simply can't say that that sentence was anything other than "ambiguous racially provocative". Stupid and negro - both adjectives of the group, and there's a chance he was simply trying to describe the statements that had came before it with the stereotype everyone was portraying (i.e. they were rubbishing his idea with negative stereotypes of gangs).

I see no reason why he should have to apologize, but if you want to ask him what he thinks of "negros" to back up your assumption he's racist that makes sense.

Jul 20, 2010 9:24 PM ET #66 (permalink)

Oz: Again, that doesn't change the fact that using any of those phrases is racist. My problem was his whole statement. Everyone's racist to an extent, hell even I am myself. But we must consider this site has certain rules that we must follow and they were there from the beginning when we decided to register. I suppose what I'll take from this experience is that from now on I will just make reports rather than discuss the whole matter as it is much easier to get my points across to deathbringer. Or maybe I'll discuss and report. In the end, what he said by all technical accounts was racist, and to an extent which is definitely unacceptable.

Cynic: Race is definitely a definable thing although it reaches different areas. "Black" is definitely one of them.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:26 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:32 PM ET #67 (permalink)

Any definition of race would be as poor as saying "that guy is black because his skin is black". When it reaches science, it falls to pieces and I challenge you to find any scientific study that can dictate what a humans race is.

Also "and to an extent which is definitely unacceptable." - To you, so far no-one else.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:33 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:34 PM ET #68 (permalink)

If we followed this sites rules to the letter, there would be no point in having a General Discussion forum. I would also recommend against reporting everything that's posted on this site that you find offensive. In the past few weeks there's been some posts that have actually offended me (which is a hard thing to do) but I personally felt that as I was a. Not of the race in question, and b. not willing to go against my theory of people being allowed to think or say what they want, then I wouldn't report it. I also see it as telling tales (or tattling, whatever term you use). Besides which, deathbringer has enough on his plate without reports of light discrimination coming in. The man has a family, a full time job and a website to maintain and program on top of everything else, the last thing he needs is people moaning about other people when they haven't said anything derogatory to them directly. Finally, on the topic of racism, if you admit that you yourself are racist to an extent, why are you so offended by what Durzaroth said?

By the way, in one of your other posts in this thread you said you were ashamed to be Iraqi. May I ask why?

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:36 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:36 PM ET #69 (permalink)

IN - OZMAN is right.
The term was used so loosly.

I honestly think your over reacting.
Why do you even care about this all soo much ?

I wonder what deathbring will say about this. I can't speak for him , nor can anyone else but I honestly can't see DB worring all too much about this.
For him to decide and for us to find out I guess.

Jul 20, 2010 9:39 PM ET #70 (permalink)

She cares because teh internets is srs bsns and losing an argument may as well be like getting cancer :P

Jul 20, 2010 9:41 PM ET #71 (permalink)

Dat iz not funneh Cynic, my star sine is Cancer.

Jul 20, 2010 9:45 PM ET #72 (permalink)

Cynic: "Black" has to do with skin colour, not ancestry or any country, but it is still quite definable. And to be frank, though others here didn't find what he said to be racist, they found it to be quite rude.
Oz: It's not like I've personally seen truly racist comments on here all the time. This was the first I've seen in a while. Therefore, reporting something that happens only on occasion (and the decision as to what he should do wouldn't seem too time-consuming, but I could be wrong) is not really an issue. And the main reason why I am ashamed is for the fact that when we lived in Iraq, people literally ratted out their neighbours who were not of the same or accepted religion, to have them killed. Yet this issue is not addressed at all to people in first world countries.
TK: I care about this a lot because a lot of my life, I've had a lot of racism directed toward myself for being an Iraqi. 9/11 made things worse.

Okay guys, grow up...

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:46 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:49 PM ET #73 (permalink)

So race = skin colour then? I'm sure you can see the holes I can pick to pieces in that argument. Is that what you're saying?

And agreed, I'm pretty sure everyone was hesitant as to what durzaroth meant by his statement.

Jul 20, 2010 9:52 PM ET #74 (permalink)

Race is a bunch of things. Pretty much any way you can categorize humans, you can technically call it a race and it'd be valid. Skin colour is one of the many valid categorizations. Skin colour is just most often used because it's the most visible and easiest way to categorize people.

(This post was last edited on July 20, 2010 at 9:52 PM ET.)

Jul 20, 2010 9:54 PM ET #75 (permalink)

I can't believe you just told them to grow up?

I think because you're obviously a very educated young womam , but because you are, you don't have the bigger shoes in this show.
Obviously your opinion is a good one, but I dont think its at all right.

I feel for you tho. The whole 9/11 thing unfortunatly lets people judge your race, Making it hard for you.

Don't think you should reallly be worried about this tho.
Its just a minor , slap on the wrist sort of case.
No need to hurry into so much detail about this.

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